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Author Topic: The most important strategy  (Read 35965 times)
Rothbardian
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« Reply #75 on: January 12, 2012, 02:10:14 AM »

Yes, Seth, I will freely admit that I am hard-headed. Grin

But I am not hard-headed in the sense that I want any sense of enmity. I agree, let's have an intellectual, friendly discussion on this later.

And thanks for giving the great opportunity of publishing such things. I'm impressed that you would allow someone with whom you might disagree to possibly publish on your site. You seem like a pretty nice guy, to be honest. Smiley

Also, is it fine if I tried to get this published on, say, Mises.org, after a couple months if it got published here? Just curious in advance. I'd have no problem with making it exclusive to your site or whatnot.
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Seth King
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« Reply #76 on: January 12, 2012, 02:30:06 AM »

Articles must be published here first. After that I don't really have any control, I ask only that authors do not republish their articles in full on their own blogs. Republishing snippets with links to the article here is fine. But if an author republishes the article in full on their own blog then I likely won't publish any future articles by the author.

As far as other websites go, I have no control, nor do I care, if they republish articles. So, if it got republished on Mises.org, I would have no problem, and probably like it, so long as they provided a link back.
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Rothbardian
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« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2012, 02:36:14 AM »

Thanks for the information! I'll certainly try to get this published here first, if and when I finish writing it. I don't do the whole blog thing, so don't worry about that. Grin

Yes, hypothetically republishing the article on Mises would be really good for your site's traffic and everything. Not saying that would happen, of course, but it would be cool for us both if it did. Tongue

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David Giessel
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« Reply #78 on: January 12, 2012, 02:43:29 AM »

Seth, you need a smiley eating popcorn. This thread is entertaining.
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Syock
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« Reply #79 on: January 12, 2012, 07:53:13 AM »

Tilting at windmills...

This topic of voting has been argued for a long time well beyond the walls of the forum.  

For most people there simply isn't enough people around for voting to ever work.  Once the FSP kicks in, then NH should have plenty to work on a state level, but that is a far cry from doing anything at all on a federal level.  In some ways we are better off being spread out because that means the activists are all over the country, reaching more people, although achieving nothing politically.  

There are just too many people with too much to gain by threatening their neighbors.  

Of course I would rather live under a minarchism than a police state, however starting from a police state where 1/2 the economy runs through the government, and the other 1/2 is regulated by it with a rigged system is a bad place to start from.  It would be a lot more reasonable to start with a minarchism and keep it that way.  That again is something I would not expect to survive the test of time.  

RP's constitution is not protection from the government, and many people only use it when it is convenient and ignore it the rest of the time.  It has no mechanism to enforce itself, it is flawed, the government will always grow back like a weed.  If someone wants to vote, I will send them RP's way.  It is a step in the right direction for them.  It will educate them on issues they will not have examined before.  If someone doesn't want to vote, telling them they are wrong won't do anything but build barriers as they certainly will have their reasons for it.  It really tends to be more of a minarchist/libertarian thing to support the system through political activism.  Yelling at the anarchists won't get you anywhere.  

There is merit in every form of activism, as they bring about different and necessary things.  If you think a black market can't work, look at the drug market.  It dominates the economy and the government in many countries.  The government corruption seen there is no different than the corruption seen here influenced by big business, big unions, and groups specializing on one issue having excessive influence.  The money is just coming from a different source.  Keep in mind all those groups have incentive to make new laws, new regulations, new things that we find harmful.  Honestly even the drug market and police have an incentive to keep it illegal and scare the public into thinking it is incredibly dangerous.  

Any government is flawed at its very core.  A smaller government is still a government, and still has the ability to grow to insane proportions with the abuse of its power.  Is this knowledge not why we're ancap in the first place?  


I probably left gaps in this, but I don't care.    Tongue  
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 07:54:52 AM by Syock » Logged

Freya
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« Reply #80 on: January 12, 2012, 08:40:37 AM »

All I have to say to both Rothbardian and JSNTS is this:

Feel free to judge or condemn the actions of other individuals if you think they are detrimental to your mutual ends. But do not pretend you know that these actions are such. Only the individual has the knowledge to determine his actions. Only he can decide the rational course of action that he thinks will meet his ends. You can provide him with more information that you have and he doesn't, but don't pretend to know more then him.

I live at least 6000 kilometers away from most of you across a vast ocean. It is futile for you to argue to me that I should use political action unless you have the knowledge I have. I can tell you that we don't have any Ron Pauls in my country. There is literally no one I can vote for that would reduce the size of the state.

You don't know the people around me. My friends and family. You don't know the best way to convince them. I don't know either, but I certainly have a lot more knowledge in that area. I'm going to let my knowledge guide my actions, and you should all do the same.

A marketplace of ideas folks, thats what its all about. There is no "most important" strategy. And even if there was we'd have no way of finding what it is without trying a whole range of things. Ideas by the many, not the few. Let the market figure out what is best in the end.

P.S. I've been learning about praxeology and reading bits of "human action" by Mises, I wonder if it shows in my post? Tongue
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dpalme
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« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2012, 09:05:12 AM »

This has got to be one of the most intelligent internet forum debates.

I can agree with both sides of this argument on some parts, more leaning towards Seth (sorry Rothbardian). While I still vote for the most part, but to be honest, I wasn't an anarchist at the last election, so that may be why. I agree with the pro voting aspect only because whenever I've told somebody that voting is pointless, they tell me it's "your duty as an American" and then just dismiss anything else you say afterwards.

For my anti-voting stance, I need only to quote the late great George Carlin when he said (paraphrasing), "if you keep electing these rich cocksuckers you have no right to complain." We have to face it, true libertarians, let alone anarchists, will never be allowed to get into the political positions high enough to really do any good. Dr. Paul's doing a helluva lot, only because people are getting behind him. You guys know how it works, even if he got the nomination, they'd do something drastic to not allow him in there.
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Syock
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« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2012, 09:17:00 AM »

... because whenever I've told somebody that voting is pointless, they tell me it's "your duty as an American" and then just dismiss anything else you say afterwards.

That is when you start calling into question the legitimacy of being American.  You never signed the Constitution, or agreed to any of the things that happen here without being threatened.  How is it your duty when you had no choice over being "American" because of where you happened to be born?  The government here certainly doesn't and has not ever represented you.  It never can.  
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 01:02:42 PM by Syock » Logged

dpalme
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« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2012, 09:21:23 AM »

... because whenever I've told somebody that voting is pointless, they tell me it's "your duty as an American" and then just dismiss anything else you say afterwards.

That is when you start calling into question the legitimacy of being American.  You never signed the Constitution, or agreed to any of the things that happen here without being threatened.  How is it your duty when you had no choice over being "American" because of where you happened to be born.  The government here certainly doesn't and has not ever represented you.  It never can. 

Exactly, my friend. I will start bringing that up.
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derick
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« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2012, 11:11:48 AM »

I happen to believe voting can be described best as insanity, that is, doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. We as Americans voted ourselves into the situation we find our nation today and I can find no evidence or proof we can vote ourselves out of it. I know of no country in the history of the world that voted themselves out of slavery and into freedom.

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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2012, 12:30:12 PM »

JSNTS finally found somebody who's as hard-headed as he is and is willing to write a pseudo-novel to prove their point.  Grin
This hope is why I stick around the forum.

@Rothbardian: Don't worry. It's my fault. I'm also guilty of line-by-line. I just know I've killed some threads in the past with page long "refutations." But the truth is that the arguments are rarely air-tight enough to warrant the line-by-line. So I guess I'm stopping it mainly because I believe that I will end up stifling the discussion with tl;dr.

Seth, you need a smiley eating popcorn. This thread is entertaining.
Well I guess this is evidence against my previous statement^^^

Feel free to judge or condemn the actions of other individuals if you think they are detrimental to your mutual ends. But do not pretend you know that these actions are such. Only the individual has the knowledge to determine his actions. Only he can decide the rational course of action that he thinks will meet his ends. You can provide him with more information that you have and he doesn't, but don't pretend to know more then him.
Absolutely Eddy. I hinted at that with: "You have your experiences, and I have mine. So it's no use telling me I'm wrong here. All I did was tell you that people's eyes glazed over much more often talking about RP than they did with market anarchism." But stating it explicitly is a valuable contribution. Thanks.

Quote
P.S. I've been learning about praxeology and reading bits of "human action" by Mises, I wonder if it shows in my post? Tongue
It sure does.
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