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Author Topic: The most important strategy  (Read 27339 times)
Seth King
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« on: January 09, 2012, 02:13:52 AM »

If you have to name one strategy to implement in your life that is more important than any other to combat the state, what would it be and why?

My answer is to work towards the goal of using FRN's as little as humanly possible. Years ago when I fully learned of the evils of central bank counterfeiting it became my goal to never have to touch another FRN, for I knew that every second an FRN was in my possession, either in my wallet or in my bank account, that it was losing value to fund my enemies, including the welfare, warfare, police state.

Having that goal also relieved me of my stress when listening to statists ramble on about how they are going to spend my money, because I knew that if I could get to the point where I am no longer participating in their system by using their money, that all of the talk in the world, or laws, or no matter how outnumbered I am, that they aren't getting my wealth.

Of course, I haven't yet achieved that goal. For a long time I thought it I would need to use silver for all of my transactions. But since I've come around to Bitcoin I am much more hopeful that I will be able to achieve that goal in a reasonable amount of time. I am in the process of slowly transitioning my earnings and spendings in Bitcoin. I look forward to the day when I can fully sustain myself without having to hold any FRN's for any length of time. I think if more people adopted this strategy we would be a lot better off.

So, what do you think of this and what is your strategy?
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dpalme
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 12:58:41 PM »

I agree. Unfortunately, there's only about one or two places here in Maine that accept bitcoin. And I'd guess even less than that which would accept silver (or gold).
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 01:17:21 PM »

Having my own small business.

reasons:
1. Directly serving the needs of my fellow man while taking care of my own.
2. With the current tax system, easier to reduce taxes paid than through employment and payroll deductions. Surviving while depriving the state of revenue is win win.
3. I can directly incentivize alternative currencies like silver and bitcoin adoption.
4. I can become a respected member of the community so that my views and example carry more weight.
5. I can afford to raise children outside of public skool and teach them the value of living in the free market.

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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2012, 07:21:12 PM »

Indubitably political action is the key. As Rothbard said:

Quote
Before the existence of the LP, the only repealing could be done by Democrats and Republicans, and so libertarians engaged in this form of political action had to try to find the more libertarian, or rather, the less anti-libertarian candidate.  Contrary to Konkin, there have been political parties in the past, especially the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries that, while not anarchist were admirable forces for laissez-faire. They didnít smash the State (not their intention anyway), but they did accomplish an enormous amount for liberty, they ushered in the Industrial Revolution, and we are all in their debt.  I think of the Democratic Party in the U.S., the Liberals in England, the Progressives in Germany, etc.  Historically, classical liberal political parties have accomplished far more for human liberty than any black markets.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2012, 08:45:00 PM »

Indubitably political action is the key. As Rothbard said:

Quote
Before the existence of the LP, the only repealing could be done by Democrats and Republicans, and so libertarians engaged in this form of political action had to try to find the more libertarian, or rather, the less anti-libertarian candidate.  Contrary to Konkin, there have been political parties in the past, especially the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries that, while not anarchist were admirable forces for laissez-faire. They didnít smash the State (not their intention anyway), but they did accomplish an enormous amount for liberty, they ushered in the Industrial Revolution, and we are all in their debt.  I think of the Democratic Party in the U.S., the Liberals in England, the Progressives in Germany, etc.  Historically, classical liberal political parties have accomplished far more for human liberty than any black markets.

Meh. I'm not nearly as impressed, and I'm certainly not convinced that political action is worth much. If you go back and study the early trade liberalization leading up to the industrial revolution etc, what you'll see is that government was just reacting, not causing much. They "had" to allow trade, because people had such a strong interest in it. The government wasn't going to be able to restrict trade anymore, because people had too much to gain. In this particular case, government was epiphenomenal, it just reacted to what the underlying social norms were going to bring about one way or another. Government is always the impediment, it accomplishes nothing. If people who understand that still vote, then I just find it sad. True, the fact that a few of us quit voting isn't going to bring down the state itself. But it's not like I'm asking the early adopters to make some huge sacrifice.
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Seth King
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2012, 08:55:20 PM »

Indubitably political action is the key. As Rothbard said:

Quote
Before the existence of the LP, the only repealing could be done by Democrats and Republicans, and so libertarians engaged in this form of political action had to try to find the more libertarian, or rather, the less anti-libertarian candidate.  Contrary to Konkin, there have been political parties in the past, especially the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries that, while not anarchist were admirable forces for laissez-faire. They didnít smash the State (not their intention anyway), but they did accomplish an enormous amount for liberty, they ushered in the Industrial Revolution, and we are all in their debt.  I think of the Democratic Party in the U.S., the Liberals in England, the Progressives in Germany, etc.  Historically, classical liberal political parties have accomplished far more for human liberty than any black markets.

Meh. I'm not nearly as impressed, and I'm certainly not convinced that political action is worth much. If you go back and study the early trade liberalization leading up to the industrial revolution etc, what you'll see is that government was just reacting, not causing much. They "had" to allow trade, because people had such a strong interest in it. The government wasn't going to be able to restrict trade anymore, because people had too much to gain. In this particular case, government was epiphenomenal, it just reacted to what the underlying social norms were going to bring about one way or another. Government is always the impediment, it accomplishes nothing. If people who understand that still vote, then I just find it sad. True, the fact that a few of us quit voting isn't going to bring down the state itself. But it's not like I'm asking the early adopters to make some huge sacrifice.

Agreed. As an anarchist my goal is not to take over the state. My goal is to convince those that operate the state that it is not in their best interest to initiate/commit acts of aggression. Take your local criminal/opportunist. He may be a petty thief, but even he knows he has boundaries and cannot willy nilly commit every crime, because he knows there will be consequences. So, he is rightfully afraid to go too far. The same needs to happen to people who work for the state, be it a politician, judge, or cop. There needs to be repercussions to committing crimes. The more repercussions, the less likely they are to commit crimes and they will self-regulate.
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 09:10:18 PM »

Meh, I think Konkin started this negative and nonsensical influence in Our Movement.

Black market action is essentially worthless in fighting the State.
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 09:14:01 PM »

Quote from: JustSayNoToStatism
Government is always the impediment, it accomplishes nothing. If people who understand that still vote, then I just find it sad.

I guess you should feel sorry for me then. Because your view clearly makes no sense; historically, the State has only been reduced through political action and revolution. Like I said, black markets are moot, contra Konkin.
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 09:19:45 PM »

So you think participating in the State is the best way to defeat it?

Personally I think we need to show people that they don't need a state to take care of them. Sure we have lots of good theories of how things would work, but most people don't care about good theories they want to see results. And that's what we need to give them. Political action just seems like a waste of time to me, but to each his own.
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Seth King
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 09:25:30 PM »

Meh, I think Konkin started this negative and nonsensical influence in Our Movement.

Black market action is essentially worthless in fighting the State.

Any time two or more people get together to trade value for value without giving the state a cut of the pie, that's a win in my book. Right now, people hand over thousands of dollars to the state every year, making it easy for the state. If you make the state "come and get it" it will be so unbelievably costly that it could not go on. The state is broke already. Now imagine the state having to physically steal your property and auction it off in order to get the resources it wants. Couple that with showing the world how thieving the state really is, and it's legitimacy goes way down.
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Rothbardian
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 09:29:22 PM »

So you think participating in the State is the best way to defeat it?

I think we should get Libertarians in office who will basically do nothing, as well as work to decrease the State. (An example would be Ron Paul withdrawing the troops from all foreign lands). The anti-political AnCaps are a bit of a shame. They reduce the number of people we can get in office (local, state, federal, whatever) to do nothing. Yes, I just said that: we need people who will persist in doing nothing except State reduction. To deny that people could reduce the State in this fashion is irrational. If 50% of gubmint officials were AnCaps, we would be so much closer to victory than if there are little, uninfluential agorist villages forming in places.

In short, we want anarchists, minarchists, and anyone who will reduce the State (or at least not increase it) in political offices.

Quote
Personally I think we need to show people that they don't need a state to take care of them.

I agree, but only education will achieve this: not the black market.
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Rothbardian
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2012, 09:38:15 PM »

Any time two or more people get together to trade value for value without giving the state a cut of the pie, that's a win in my book.

It is a win, but only a very, very small win. And it can only happen on a very small scale. Large companies can't escape the State's thievery, and we shouldn't expect them to.

There's no magical state-reducing effect behind driving 50mph (legal speed) versus 60mph (black market speed). Or from buying drugs on the black market, or anything else on the black market. Buying legal drugs like ibuprofen "reduces" the State just as much as buying cocaine.
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Seth King
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 09:43:14 PM »

Would you agree that the state is a criminal organization?

If so, then it is my view that there are only two things that determine the size and scope of ANY criminal organization. They are resources and resistance.

If you want to shrink the size of any criminal organization, you must decrease its resources and increase its resistance.

Starving the beast decreases its resources. Making every dollar it gets and every action it takes more costly increases its resistance. It is those two things that will reduce the size and scope of the state.
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Rothbardian
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 10:07:30 PM »

Would you agree that the state is a criminal organization?

Yes, of course, the State is a criminal organization.

I agree with you that "starving the beast" is good. But it can only happen on a small, irrelevant scale: so small, in fact, that the State is hardly drained at all.

In my opinion, I think radical political minarchists are better for the Cause of Liberty than anti-political AnCap sectarians. Of course the ideal is radical political AnCaps, but (thanks to SEK3) the movement is trending away from the good ole Rothbardian strategy.

"Lord, give me radicals, whether they be anarchists or no!"~Rothbard
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2012, 10:53:45 PM »

Meh, I think Konkin started this negative and nonsensical influence in Our Movement.

Black market action is essentially worthless in fighting the State.
I didn't make an argument in favor of agorism, just against political action.
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