Daily Anarchist Forum
November 28, 2021, 12:33:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome to the Daily Anarchist Forum!
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Investing  (Read 10605 times)
randallstevens
Full Member
***
Posts: 174


FREEDOM!


View Profile WWW
« on: September 21, 2010, 09:11:51 PM »

I was wondering how everyone here is investing their savings in this political climate. Fearing government plunder, I have closed out my Roth IRA and will cash out my 401(k) when or if I leave my present job. I'm am completely out of the market simply because I fear that if I do not have my money in my possession the government will eventually steal it in some sort of forced T-bill purchase or the like. I'm "gambling" big on silver and hoping that it will move back in line with its historical ratio to gold of about 16:1. While I know this is smart because at the least I am preserving my purchasing power with a commodity, I also feel that it is a shame that I am not lending my surpluses into the market where they could be used to expand the productive capacity of the economy. Thoughts?
Logged

He doesn't exist, except on paper.
Seth King
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
*****
Posts: 3211



View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 09:27:10 PM »

Savings? AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Seriously though. I think you're doing it just right. Buy the real stuff and bury it until this system collapses and the dust settles, THEN invest it. I have no desire to invest in the current system. I want to go for broke on freedom and not let anybody else near my savings until the shitstorm is over. Think John Galt.
Logged

When are you moving to New Hampshire?
helio
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 571



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 09:30:14 PM »

What you are doing mirrors my situation exactly.  I stopped 401k contributions 2 years ago, started buying silver, paying down debt, and buying up durable foods.  I put about 5% of my monthly income in silver, 10% in cash, and 10% in debt reduction and 10% in survival supplies. 
Logged

"Fire in the head, peace in the heart."  -Samael
JustSayNoToStatism
Daily Anarchist Crew
Hero Member
****
*****
Posts: 1747


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2010, 11:07:15 PM »

Good topic choice. I've been thinking about this. I'm still in school so I will have to pay off loans before I start saving...but everything I've learned about investing makes the tiny assumption that there won't be a hyperinflation, and eventual collapse of a welfare state that millions of people depend upon. So traditional methods don't really apply to people like us. I'm guessing you are all going with silver because it's low enough in value that it can be used for everyday transactions? I've heard gold is overrated because you can't use it for much.

I think basic survival gear has to come before silver or anything like that. You can't eat, drink, or defend yourself with a commodity metal. Guns are a huge necessity in my book (I better get cracking here, never fired one).

Then when it's time to buy metal, do so with cash, don't make it traceable. Don't use a credit card.

food, gun, ammo, metal = modern day investment vehicles
Logged

"I like to eat. Instead of a monarch I propose we have a Chef be final arbiter in matters. We'll call it anarcho-chefism."
-MAM
randallstevens
Full Member
***
Posts: 174


FREEDOM!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 11:37:44 PM »

While I do own some gold, most of savings is in silver with a good chunk of it in small and medium denominations in case I have to spend it. I did and still do all of my buying online simply because the local coin shop type dealers mark up the bullion too much and usually do not carry enough supply in my preferred bullion. I have used both APMEX and Bullion Direct with great satisfaction (I'm not getting paid for an endorsement).

I do have plenty of firearms and ammo to defend myself, my family, and my money should the need ever arise. I don't bother keeping excess food because I simply don't have enough room.

We paid off all of our debt except for the house, but don't bother paying extra on it simply because the mortgage payment is about equal to rents for a similar home in the neighborhood. As long as the government can put a lien on the property and evict us for failing to pay property taxes, we will never really own it, so what's the point?

I don't mind the thought of investing in other commodities or commodity producing companies, but what scares me is the fact that the Feds can seize my accounts electronically and there would be nothing I could do about it, hence the cash under the mattress. I figure with bullion I won't have to worry about living without it because I won't let it be taken without a fight.
Logged

He doesn't exist, except on paper.
helio
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 571



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 04:39:10 AM »

Silver is only part of my strategy.  I have food, a few simple self defense weapons, a rifle, shotgun, and enough ammo to hunt and defend myself against a few dangerous encounters.  Certainly I'm not a rambo with a secret closet and enough gear to start a small war. 

I buy nothing larger than 1 ounce coins, such as silve eagles, but mostly prefer junk silver like 40% kennedy halves.  My local coin shop is liquidating and he's selling them 2 bucks each, which is a dollar below melt value.  These coins are easily recognizable to people and will be a functional currency once the crack-up boom occurs. 

But, if it doesn't occur, silver is still an awesome investment in my opinion.  Its practically inflation proof as the supply is very limited.  There just isn't that much silver as there used to be because it is an industrial metal that doesn't really get recycled.  So, if our economy limps sickly along for the next 30 years or so, Silver will be there when Social Security isn't.

Logged

"Fire in the head, peace in the heart."  -Samael
setherb
Newbie
*
Posts: 9


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 12:02:37 PM »

I agree this is a great topic.  I too have thought about closing my IRA and buying gold and silver for some time now but haven't pulled the trigger.  Like you guys I've got most of what i may need rifles, handguns, ammo, some food staples and some survival gear.  I've purchased some silver bullion but only a hand full of coins.  With the news lately about the FED and metal prices on the rise, i'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on the IRA.

I realize the importance of having the gold and silver in your hands but do any of you have any experience with the gold IRAs?  From what i know you can convert your IRA to gold coins but they have to be kept in deposit at a bank.  There are usually fees associated with maintaining the deposit and fees for withdrawing the coins.  Having not researched in too much depth I don't see any advantage in these gold IRAs beyond a hedge against inflation.
Logged
randallstevens
Full Member
***
Posts: 174


FREEDOM!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 01:07:25 PM »

I can't say that I have any experience with PMIRAs. I did a bit of research but found the storage fees to be exorbitant. I closed out my accounts because in my mind if the whole system collapses 1) the government will simply confiscate the accounts with a few keystrokes or 2)if they system collapses and they don't, I won't really be concerned with keeping my savings tax sheltered. Since my accounts were Roth IRAs, I have already paid taxes on them and will only be taxed on any capital gains incurred (not much), so I just bit the bullet and closed them out.

My only advice is that if you take physical possession (which you should in my opinion) get a good safe that is either bolted to the foundation of your house (good), or is IN the foundation of your house (better). It would really suck to have a large amount of PMs stored in a safe only to have something like a tornado literally blow it all away...
Logged

He doesn't exist, except on paper.
helio
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 571



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 01:21:54 PM »

If its not in your hands, you don't own it.  I don't have a lot of silver, but if the reports of 45 paper ounces to 1 physical ounce are true, that means the price will eventually adjust massively upwards.  I don't know what is true, other than the fed will inflate.  Whether the metals markets are manipulated (which i believe) or not doesn't deter my position to buy and hold over the long term.

Logged

"Fire in the head, peace in the heart."  -Samael
setherb
Newbie
*
Posts: 9


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 01:54:17 PM »

Thanks for the input.  I'm looking through my IRA's distribution forms right now.
Logged
Seth King
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
*****
Posts: 3211



View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 02:25:34 PM »

I am pretty sure there are ways to do a self-directed IRA where you possess the gold. The problem is the government knows about it. But the government knows about your assets now so...

Logged

When are you moving to New Hampshire?
xphoenix
Newbie
*
Posts: 44



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2010, 07:00:18 PM »

I've been thinking about getting some silver as well, but I'm a little concerned about storage.  I don't want to advertise that I have it, but I also want to make sure it's covered by insurance in case of theft or some other disaster.  Something tells me that if things hit the fan with the monetary system and the government comes knocking, insurance companies won't exactly keep it to themselves who has additional coverage on their homeowner's policies for things like this.  What steps have others taken in that regard?
Logged
Seth King
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
*****
Posts: 3211



View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2010, 07:25:45 PM »

Welcome to the forum. I recommend buying silver in person from a bullion dealer if you can. They require you give a name but not to show ID. So you can fake a name, and nobody knows any better if you pay cash. Then bury it. If you bury it wisely the chances of it getting stolen are slim to nil.
Logged

When are you moving to New Hampshire?
randallstevens
Full Member
***
Posts: 174


FREEDOM!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2010, 07:10:49 AM »

I've been thinking about getting some silver as well, but I'm a little concerned about storage.  I don't want to advertise that I have it, but I also want to make sure it's covered by insurance in case of theft or some other disaster.  Something tells me that if things hit the fan with the monetary system and the government comes knocking, insurance companies won't exactly keep it to themselves who has additional coverage on their homeowner's policies for things like this.  What steps have others taken in that regard?


I'm pretty sure you will not be able to find a homeowner's policy that will insure your bullion without being prohibitively expensive. I have a regular 1 hour fireproof safe bolted to the foundation of my home that I keep my bullion in. I cover it with a cardboard box with a few items stacked on top just for camouflage. Bolting the safe to the floor with long lag bolts will ensure the safe will still be there if the house is blown away by severe weather (assuming it doesn't get knocked loose by a flying car), and will keep thieves at bay (unless they have tools and a lot of time). If you have access to a concrete saw and jackhammer then you can cut a hole in the foundation and put a drop safe into it. This would be the most secure, but believe me, digging that hole takes some time and effort.

Like you mentioned, not advertising the fact that you have bullion on your premises is the best thing you can do to protect your stash. I don't worry about not having my PMs insured by a third party because I figure in the event of a full scale monetary disaster, insurance companies will either go out of business or will lobby the turds in government for legislation protecting them from paying out claims to policy holders, much like the banks received protection from having to pay depositors in specie under the gold standard.
Logged

He doesn't exist, except on paper.
setherb
Newbie
*
Posts: 9


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2010, 11:12:30 AM »

Can someone with experience buying gold and silver post some recommendations.  I see that Seth has recommended buying silver from a dealer in person and others have recommended online dealers like APMEX and Bullion Direct.  What other resources do people recommend?  What recommendations do you guys have as to the size of the bullion, rounds or Bars, 1 oz, .5 oz, etc..? 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!