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Author Topic: Investing  (Read 10611 times)
randallstevens
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2010, 12:49:15 PM »

Can someone with experience buying gold and silver post some recommendations.  I see that Seth has recommended buying silver from a dealer in person and others have recommended online dealers like APMEX and Bullion Direct.  What other resources do people recommend?  What recommendations do you guys have as to the size of the bullion, rounds or Bars, 1 oz, .5 oz, etc..? 

I've purchased 1oz buffalo rounds, 10 oz and 100 oz bars. If we have a hyperinflationary panic, the 1 oz rounds will be the easiest to use for normal day to day purchases. It all depends on how you expect to use it. If you just want to put a large amount of money away and protect it from inflation, then 100 oz bars would be a good purchase. I usually get the cheapest ones I can find so I get the most for my FRNs. I use the online dealers because the premiums are lower, but the tradeoff is that you lose anonymity because there are electronic records.
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2010, 03:12:46 PM »

It depends what your goals are.  My primary outlook is in a hyperinflationary event, people will be liquidating every other asset class for essentials.  I believe hard currencies will come back into vogue as they have in zimbabwe in the aftermath of that hyperinflation.  I have some of the older coins like the walking liberty half dollars that people instantly recognize as legitimate.  I have some kennedy 40% silver half dollars.  I have 1 oz silver eagles and some bullion.  I don't purchase the bars as something as large as a 100 oz bar will be difficult to 'break' and make change against in a hyper inflationary event.  The bars are primarily for long term purchasing power preservation in the event that the current monetary system survives. 

I look to use mine to buy farm equipment, fuel, fertilizer, and day labor if it all melts down.  If the currency system survives, the coins will also meet the need of purchase power preservation. 

Also, dollar cost averaging is better for hedging against the volatility that silver has. Buying 100 1 oz coins over a period of months is a safer bet than buying a 100 oz bar. 

I have purchased from Buillion Direct only once, but was happy with it.  I purchase primarily from a local vendor.  I don't want my name on a list if I can help it.
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Seth King
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2010, 04:01:04 PM »

My recommendation is to by a lot of junk silver first. If you don't have a good bullion dealer you can buy from in person, consider going onto ebay. They have very competitive prices for junk, even in small amounts. Dimes and quarters are easily available.

After junk I would buy 1 ounce silver rounds, non-eagles. Their premiums are too high. After a sufficient quantity of silver only then I would buy gold.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2010, 04:35:27 PM »

I'm not an expert on this topic, so could someone explain the reason for going "junk." Why buy coins that are just artifacts from the "in between" days when the government was diluting our money? Why buy silver with other junk melted into it? Then we'll have to do calculations to figure out how much silver you're actually getting in the trade and what not. Is it just to avoid markup...
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Seth King
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2010, 05:12:33 PM »

Junk silver is great because of the small denominations. Currently no private mints are pumping out anything less than one ounce, and if they do, those fractional ounces come with much higher premiums than one ounce rounds, to the point of not being cost effective.

Junk is also well known for their silver content. Each coin, such as dime, quarter, half-dollar and dollar are all 90% silver and the denominations are proportional. One dime has one-tenth the amount of silver as one dollar. Four quarters has the same content as one dollar, etc.

One dollar has exactly 0.72 ounces of silver. Therefore, one dime has 0.072 ounces of silver which means it is worth about $1.50 in today's money. This is excellent for smaller transactions because one ounce of silver is way too much and requires today's phony money for making change. With junk silver the most amount you'll ever need to make change for is $1.50.

While the coins may only be 90% silver, it does make them stronger. Ideally we would have privately minted small denomination coins that contain silver content instead of "dollars" but for now they work great and will likely be melted down and converted in the future once we end the dollar hegemony.
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2010, 06:05:41 PM »

Thanks for the feedback on my earlier post.  Good points about the cost of homeowner's insurance.

Seth - you mentioned that coin dealers require that you give name, but not ID.  Is that just common practice or is there some sort of regulation in place?
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Seth King
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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2010, 07:32:17 PM »

As far as I know it is regulation. Although, that's likely to change once we all become required to 1099 purchases over $600. Once that happens I'll be seeking out underground metals dealers.
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2011, 08:11:20 AM »

There is one big problem with gold.  Governments own most of it since they confiscated it and locked up people that didn't turn it in.  Several years back Great Britain was going to dump a lot of it's gold on the market to raise some money.  The only reason they didn't was because the US gov asked them not to.  I am not sure what prompted the US to care.  Maybe they wanted the price to rise so the gov's can get more for the gold, or were afraid of a fiat currency collapse.  That is just speculation of course.  The fact remains that the US government and many other governments around the world are sitting on huge sums of gold.  They have the ability to inflate that too. 
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Syock
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« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2012, 10:23:28 AM »

I've been thinking about getting some silver as well, but I'm a little concerned about storage.  I don't want to advertise that I have it, but I also want to make sure it's covered by insurance in case of theft or some other disaster.  Something tells me that if things hit the fan with the monetary system and the government comes knocking, insurance companies won't exactly keep it to themselves who has additional coverage on their homeowner's policies for things like this.  What steps have others taken in that regard?


I think this would be a perfect place for an agorist insurance company to form. 
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Amagi
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« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2012, 11:02:55 AM »

I cannot tell you what your investments should be since I am not you.  I do not know your risk adversity.  I can tell you what I think is a safe bet.

You should have at least $1,000 in emergency cash.  In addition you should have 6 months - 1 year of expenses in cash.  Yes, fiat currency.  This is in case you immediately lose your job.  I also recommend paying off your debt.  Yes, inflation does reduce the value of your debt, but as a good voluntaryist you do have an obligation to pay off the debt.  By paying down your debt you are in essence increasing your savings.  Remember, it may take many years before there is a widespread financial collapse and hyperinflation, and there will be fluctuations between then.

Depending on your age, I would recommend having a ROTH IRA.  However I would not put too much into it, you can still make money in the stock market and you want to at least be safe from all angles.  It might not be a bad idea to invest in real estate and good businesses.  If you think there will be total chaos tomorrow then buy a farm?  Who knows, it may be 100 years before there is a financial collapse, if at all, that will destroy the US Dollar as we know it.  It took the Roman Empire 700 + years and it became a dictatorship long before the empire collapsed.

I recommend that you put at least 10-25% of your net worth in precious metals, preferably tangible bullion.  Remember, gold is money.

I cannot say whether you should do anything legal, or illegal because I do not want anyone to end up in jail.  I will say that when buying gold online, you can purchase up to $10,000 worth via bank wire, money order, or check, without the company reporting it to the IRS.  Obviously paying with credit card leaves a trace, but if it is under $10,000, I don't think you have much to worry about.  Most companies that sell precious metals have very strict privacy policies.

There is one big problem with gold.  Governments own most of it since they confiscated it and locked up people that didn't turn it in.  Several years back Great Britain was going to dump a lot of it's gold on the market to raise some money.  The only reason they didn't was because the US gov asked them not to.  I am not sure what prompted the US to care.  Maybe they wanted the price to rise so the gov's can get more for the gold, or were afraid of a fiat currency collapse.  That is just speculation of course.  The fact remains that the US government and many other governments around the world are sitting on huge sums of gold.  They have the ability to inflate that too.  

Actually, over 50% of the gold ever mined in human history is used in jewelry and owned by individuals.  Another 12% is used in manufacturing.  Only 17.5% of all the gold ever mined is held by government institutions.

The British government did sell off a huge chunk of their gold holdings.  It was one of the biggest investment mistakes of the century.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 11:06:00 AM by Amagi » Logged

Owner - Amagi Metals. Amagi Metals sells precious metals and advocates for free markets, financial responsibility, and gold as money. Now accepting Bitcoins.
Syock
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« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2012, 12:13:26 PM »


Actually, over 50% of the gold ever mined in human history is used in jewelry and owned by individuals.  Another 12% is used in manufacturing.  Only 17.5% of all the gold ever mined is held by government institutions.


That is still a massive amount for governments to hold.  Considering so much is used for jewelery and not in the market, it would still hit like a ton of bricks.
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MAM
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« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2012, 09:17:17 PM »

I am not an  expert but I make my precious medal purchases in person at a local store that I will not finger. I use cash (I do most of my work in the Agorist market). If you are looking to invest for a profit I wouldn't buy precious metals. I buy them as a way of storing wealth. To me the price isn't that important. It is a store of wealth to me not a way of generating it. But I'm not an expert so...
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2012, 12:04:50 AM »

I am not an  expert but I make my precious medal purchases in person at a local store that I will not finger. I use cash (I do most of my work in the Agorist market). If you are looking to invest for a profit I wouldn't buy precious metals. I buy them as a way of storing wealth. To me the price isn't that important. It is a store of wealth to me not a way of generating it. But I'm not an expert so...
As long as you aren't putting too big of a fraction of your wealth into it, I'd say you're doing it exactly right. In person, in cash, no one knows you have it, and you aren't expecting gold to hit $5,000 / oz within the year. Reasonable enough to me.
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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2012, 04:09:06 PM »

Honestly, I would buy thousands of rounds of ammo and a buttload of cigarettes as a hedge against hyperinflation if I could. Those are useful and small. I'm not sure most people will find gold as the preferred currency, but cigarettes and ammo have a very practical purpose, are easy to carry around, and you could trade in small amounts (gold is stuck in whatever denomination it is. There is no standardization. How much gold would be needed for a bushel of wheat?)

For now, I can't even buy precious metals, so I'll just starve to death if the country comes to that. hooray.
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