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Author Topic: A voting anarchist...  (Read 23837 times)
anotherfreeman
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« on: May 25, 2011, 05:26:59 PM »

An anarchist voting? Part 1

There is a lot to be said for the Libertarian political involvement that is “taking the world by storm” at the present moment through the man Ron Paul, and the many other Liberty loving activists, bloggers, teachers, speakers, and so on. I believe that they truly do want to make this world a better place, and that their intentions are good. They obviously fight with zeal and refuse to be muted in any way (regardless of their inconsistencies). I don’t however believe that this is what our world needs most, and I don’t believe that this road leads to the proper moral and practical destination that is truly most desirable. Now I am often called the unpractical one given that our current and most commonly accepted location on the spectrum of liberty is far from where it needs to be in comparison to commonly accepted standards of anarchism.(I’m speaking directly to what anarchists believe to be true about themsleves, not what the majority believes to be true about anarchists. We wouldn’t have time to clear up those misconceptions). But am I to submit to that which not moral, desirable, ethical, and practical just because others refuse to walk away from tradition and in turn stay within the clutches of those who repeatedly abuse them? Am I to submit to endorsing an unethical system from the ground up just because the system has us pinned to the ground? Are we to pick the lesser of evils, just because evil has been made the only option? My short answer is NO. Now I admit that some good things have come from the education that many of these libertarians and minarchists have brought to the table, but I see them truly as stops on the way to anarchism and appreciate them as stepping stones to the freedom found in a consistent stance that is found nowhere else other than anarchism. While I understand the appeal of Ron Paul and a lot of his political stances and ideology, these simple opinions do not change the unsettling facts and truths about the evils of the state. Furthermore I want nothing to do with putting any man in power over myself or my neighbor regardless of what he says and believes, even if a lot of those beliefs line up with mine. There are a couple of factors that should be talked about when having this discussion and I hope to cover them as thoroughly as I can, but will fall way short of doing this topic its real justice due to limitations of time and space.

Why voting is bad for anarchism…

First and fore most I believe that a voting anarchist is an inconsistent thinker and this in turn is bad for anarchism. How can we say that we despise the state and see it for what it truly is (EVIL) and then in the same breath endorse a candidate of any kind? Is it not purely hypocritical to stand behind the “Philosophy of Liberty” and at the same time vote your leader onto someone else? Do you really believe in the “Philosophy of Liberty”? Is it in any way consistent thinking to say that you believe others should; quit their public sector jobs, get out of the military, stop paying taxes, get rid of public schools, stop taking welfare, and opt out of all government involved associations, yet in the same line of thought say to yourself, “But I really like that Ron Paul”? It’s this sort of thinking and action that brings anarchists even more of a bad name and even more misunderstandings than we already have. It’s this sort of inconsistent thought that rips the beauty and freedom found in anarchism even further from the grasps of the people that need it so desperately. Another thing that makes me sad about the thought of an anarchist voting is that it shows defeat. It shows that we have given up and given in to the monster. We are essentially punching in our time card to the slave master knowing that we will never be paid for breaking our backs while they sit back and laugh on a power high in their victory. The very act itself is truly unnecessary and futile which only makes it more disgusting. Anarchist haven’t made of habit of conforming to traditional thoughts and answers to everyday problems. For instance, when I first started studying anarchism and the free market, I was amazed at the way these “deal breaker” problems being asked by opponents were so effortlessly solved by the free market and open minds. “What about the roads?” someone would ask with pride, just knowing that they were about to ruin the free market and anarchism with four words. And a simple answer that lead to better quality, ethics, and so on was presented with clarity and understanding that would trump anything that person could have ever imagined (whether they ended up accepting it or not). So then I ask, why conform and submit here? It seems like a worthy place to hold our ground and seek superior alternatives like in all the other situations that drew me to this completely opposite ideology. It’s a sad testament to our capacity to think outside the box when we fall into line and walk on into the ballot box. I don’t have the answer to what a viable alternative would be to this, but I do see the problems in accepting voting as my answer. It goes against the moral foundation of my reasoning for becoming an anarchist and therefore rules out voting from even being on the table of options. I have no more a right to vote Ron Paul to office and force my leader on someone than they have the right to vote Obama into office and force their leader onto me. The moment I do this, I am no better and anarchism loses its footing altogether. Further more, let’s just say for arguments sake that my candidate wins. Do I now endorse the system just because my candidate, who thinks the most like me, won? How does this make me different and how does this further the message of the higher moral and ethical standards found in anarchism? Do I stop standing behind anarchism now that “my guy” made it to the hot seat?  Another short answer…It doesn’t. It only shows hypocrisy and inconsistent thought. Now remember that these comments are directed to anarchists voting. Of course minarchists on down are going to vote. I am simply speaking to the anarchists here. But in regards to that thought, how are we now viewed as a voting anarchist by those who don’t hold the same ideology? The importance of refuting the monopoly of violence goes out the window when we open the door to participation in that very same violence, no matter what level we participate. The moral and ethical importance of what we are doing is worthless once an anarchist votes and in turn reflects poorly on the other anarchists who are persistently pursuing a true voluntary society. Do us all a favor and just be quiet. You can no longer tell others that they represent and endorse that evil when you do as well. Another sad fact is looking at all the money being wasted on this circus. Millions of dollars that could be used to support those who are behind the vision and liberty found in anarchism are wasted. Those dollars have never resulted in a president by the way, and probably won’t this time either. Have we forgotten our current situation? At least 45 % of our country is dependant directly on our government for some sort of assistance. This is not to mention those who work for them. The very thought of giving anything more to this dying and unsustainable state is not only futile but stupid. It’s all over! The only hope left is that in the future collapse people will see the truth. People should be preparing for that instead of throwing dollars to the wind trying to fight the beast through the beast. That hasn’t worked for hundreds of years, and its no secret that it’s not going to work now. People will try to argue that small and limited government will work, but first of all there is no way to get it there; second, there is no way to keep it there; third, there is no proof that it will work; and fourth we would then have to ignore that it was immoral an unethical. And in my opinion if you’re voting, your for a limited government at best. If your not, don’t vote! We don’t have any real proof that a limited government will work, but what we do have proof of is that any form or size of government limits the people underneath its rule. I say underneath it, because no matter the government, the very purpose of it is to rule over and have some sort of control on the people. Throughout the history of the world, government has proven time and time again that it cannot be controlled by the people, but it’s really good at controlling them. We can try and ignore the reality that voting brings by saying that its practical at certain times with certain candidates that we happen to agree with and or like, but this does not change the moral and ethical truths that follow and the evil that comes with them. Since I’m speaking to anarchists I didn’t really get down into the details of these truths, because I expect that they are known or you probably wouldn’t call yourself an anarchist.  I mainly tried to point out the inconsistencies that come with the voting anarchist and the effects that follow. I again in no way imagine that I spoke on even a quarter of them, and this fact only goes to further prove my point.

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Freeborn Bob
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2011, 06:15:24 PM »

Since your post seems to apply only to the idea of voting for candidates, my thoughts here may have some relevance to your future Part 2.
I still vote  but not for any candidates, I just skip over that part of the ballot. The "vehicle", the State, is a universal failure at providing ANYTHING it has ever claimed or promised. Swapping "drivers" for this vehicle is an exercise in pointless futility. This is the only purpose of choosing a different candidate. Nothing will ever be changed from the inside and the political parties have assured by their control of the nomination and election process that no one will be a candidate unless they are safe for the status quo. Even if Mr. Paul did get elected; and I don't think this would ever be allowed to happen, it would be the kiss of death for him.

My purpose in voting is to expressly document my rejection and disapproval of all tax measures placed on the ballot through either fluke or accident and also to reject any further expansions of the power of the State that appear there. I don't humor myself that this will ever stop or reverse the aggrandizement of State authority but do so merely to send a message. That not all their victims are sycophantic sheep that bahhhh an approving yes whenever they are sheared. To be too spineless to even lack the will to scream NO to your oppressor on the way down is not how I want to live.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2011, 08:04:46 PM »

Yeah, I've thought about what I would do if there was a tax referendum. Saying "no" isn't imposing my will, it's just "self defense" as Spooner might say. I haven't faced that situation yet though. The fact that my vote is insignificant would likely win out though.
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Syock
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 02:51:27 PM »

The problem with not voting is that no one will notice or care if you don't vote.  Usually voter turnout is quite low.  Most of the people not voting are not anarchists.  Most of them just don't care or gave up.  They still get stuck with all the same laws as everyone else.  Your protest non-vote is worthless to the cause of freedom.  Everyone else sees it as a sign of consent to whoever wins the election.

I had a long reply written for this, agreeing with some, disagreeing with some.  I see you have resigned to live in a police state with the expectation that there will be a collapse and in such a case you will suddenly be in anarchtopia.  I wouldn't count on that.
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Seth King
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2011, 05:45:26 PM »

I don't care if others don't care that I don't vote. I don't vote because I don't want to legitimize the system for people that DO care. Furthermore, it is a waste of my time and resources to do any campaigning or voting. The government isn't my system. Why participate in something that has no moral legitimacy? I'd rather work to undermine it.
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Syock
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 06:34:25 PM »

The problem is I am participating in the system if I want to or not.  I am forced to.  They don't care if it has moral legitimacy.  If you have managed to find a way out of everything already, let me know.  So long as I live here, those people are going to think I consent if I vote or not.
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Tom J
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2011, 07:10:15 PM »


Elections aren’t decided by a single vote, and a single vote is all anyone has. The vote is a placebo for the person voting, at best.
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Syock
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2011, 08:19:56 PM »

Someones vote must be counting.  Every few years I hear they pick someone that claims to be able to run my life better than I can. 
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2011, 01:47:50 AM »

Someones vote must be counting.  Every few years I hear they pick someone that claims to be able to run my life better than I can. 
Is it worth your time? To me, I'd rather surf the internet for half an hour than go vote. Also, I like being able to honestly tell people I don't vote. That gives me more satisfaction in my life than voting ever could. It's a good conversation starter. Also, laughing at people who vote and ask you about elections. It's a good way to get them interested. If someone asks you to support a candidate, say "that's cute," or some other smartass comment. Haha. "You want to change masters, I want to end serfdom." It's fun to get creative with it. Just me though. Do as you please.
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"I like to eat. Instead of a monarch I propose we have a Chef be final arbiter in matters. We'll call it anarcho-chefism."
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Syock
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« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2011, 07:14:11 AM »

I am not even allowed to vote for some things due to not being affiliated with a political party.  My state is also overwhelmingly single party.  I know my vote doesn't count, and won't matter.  I don't usually have something better to do for the 10 min it takes me to go and come back.  Now that I have a flag, maybe I will just hang out there next to the Obama supporters and hand out ancap fliers.  Grin
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Seth King
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 02:07:51 PM »

I am not even allowed to vote for some things due to not being affiliated with a political party.  My state is also overwhelmingly single party.  I know my vote doesn't count, and won't matter.  I don't usually have something better to do for the 10 min it takes me to go and come back.  Now that I have a flag, maybe I will just hang out there next to the Obama supporters and hand out ancap fliers.  Grin

This sounds much more productive to me.  Wink
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Syock
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 02:28:11 PM »

Does anyone know of any good ancap flyers?  Something that can get people thinking then send them off somewhere to learn more. 

Since ancap is not part of the political game, it seems hard to reach out with the ideas like libertarians can.  There is nothing in place for it.
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Seth King
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2011, 02:54:49 PM »

Does anyone know of any good ancap flyers?  Something that can get people thinking then send them off somewhere to learn more. 

Since ancap is not part of the political game, it seems hard to reach out with the ideas like libertarians can.  There is nothing in place for it.

It's up to us to create all of this stuff. We are basically the Ron Paul supporters of early 2007. Perhaps, in four years, we will also be mainstream.
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Syock
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 03:30:32 PM »

It's up to us to create all of this stuff. We are basically the Ron Paul supporters of early 2007. Perhaps, in four years, we will also be mainstream.

I would think it is worse than that.  They at least had the republican party structure and media events to work with. 
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Seth King
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2011, 03:46:34 PM »

It's up to us to create all of this stuff. We are basically the Ron Paul supporters of early 2007. Perhaps, in four years, we will also be mainstream.

I would think it is worse than that.  They at least had the republican party structure and media events to work with. 

True, but the vast majority of people were asleep at that time too. There are still a lot of sleep-walkers out there, but there are also a massive amount more awake and active truth seekers out there now, too.
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