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Author Topic: Are libertarians hurting or helping the cause of freedom when trying to reform..  (Read 12469 times)
Seth King
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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2011, 01:16:59 AM »

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"Taking one for the team."

Funny you should mention that.  Boss told me yesterday day that I wasn't being a 'part of the team'.

I didn't say it, but there is no team.  It is just a bunch of people competing to push off their work onto everyone else, or at the least to control what everyone else does without having any personal responsibility themselves. 

After that discussion, I took a medical leave of absence.  It is much easier to deal with medical problems without worrying about that crap.  It is also a great opportunity to finally absorb Mises's book, Human Action in exquisite detail.

I feel a blog article coming on....

When are you switching to that PHP job?
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When are you moving to New Hampshire?
helio
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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2011, 02:26:20 AM »

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When are you switching to that PHP job?

Soon as I learn php =).  I haven't been promised anything except an opportunity to apply and be considered.  I'm going to take about three months or so off and see if I can't get my health problems fixed for good this time.  I'm almost 100% convinced that my problems are exacerbated by the stress of the chaos of corporate life.  I think If I disengage from that awhile and focus on the things I'm passionate about, changing diet and exercise habits that I can get my energy back.

But even if I get that other job, it is still another corporate, cubicle-pen with bosses.  I'm not like anarcho-socialists who think such arrangements are equivalent to slavery, but I'm surely not made for such environments.  To that end, I'm going to put my game on hold and focus on a website project that I can get done in three months. 
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2011, 03:34:53 PM »

To truly absorb that book will take a very long time. Also, I wish you the best in dealing with health issues.

I'd maybe do PHP before HA, since it might be achievable in 3 months, while HA might not be.
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« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2011, 12:18:43 AM »

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I'd maybe do PHP before HA, since it might be achievable in 3 months, while HA might not be

No doubt, haha.  Human Action is an epic work. 
I don't like to focus on one thing for very long as I get ansty.  So I rotate my areas of interest.
Within the three months (or so) I plan on furthering my grasp of PhP.  The constructs are very similar to ASP, so it is really just a matter of learning the 'php' way to achieve the same ends.
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« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2011, 09:39:21 AM »

@helio Have you looked into PHP frameworks?  I'm a Systems Administrator in my professional career and a programming enthusiast.  I chose CakePHP and pretty much learned the framework and necessities of the language in 3-4 weeks.  After that initial learning curve I started working on my web application rather rapidly.

And yes...Human Action is a monster, I read a bit of it but had to take a break to combat the brain swelling.
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« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2011, 03:41:11 PM »

Getting back on topic of the O.P.

I agree with this video but I think that as Anarcho Capitalists (or Free Market Anarchists or whatever) we should not do anything to support anything in the system. But should we not at least give some credence to when a Libertarian does peel back the government a little? I can kind of see it both ways...

I don't understand how we can realistically ever have a AnCapistan or whatever you want to call it without first achieving a voluntary funded minarchy as both a revolutionary and evolutionary step into full anarcho- capitalism. People in general just are not going to buy into free market anarchist ideals en masse out of fear. How do we beat that fear? The majority (the various herds of collectivist minded groups) are not going to overcome their fear without there being a big enough minority of ancaps  to make them feel part of a group. Unfortunately as precious as human being are there are many who seem to lack the ability to think conceptually about things. Sorry if that seems cynical and hateful. It's like the in the movie Men in Black where K tells J that "a person is smart, people are stupid".

What I think has to happen is that we have to stand up and educate and spread the message as far and wide as we can- the people that reject us will at least have hears about us. When the shit hits the fan and we go through full on depression and collapse then they will flock back to us.

What we ought to do is stand our own ground and be as visible as possible. The real discussion is: ACTIVISM!

Oh and another thought- Where is Free Market Capitalism in Africa, India, China, etc.HuhHuh
The poor of these countries need freedom and capitalism the most.

I am new to the AnCap cause and have a lot to learn but I have a brain and I think I can eventually bring a lot to the plate- bring it on!
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2011, 12:17:07 AM »

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Oh and another thought- Where is Free Market Capitalism in Africa, India, China, etc.
Nowhere really. There were glimpses of it in Somalia, but they're getting pummeled by external governments pretty regularly now. They did have quite a good streak several years back, but I'm pessimistic on Somalia's future.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2011, 10:24:55 AM »

There were glimpses of it in Somalia, but they're getting pummeled by external governments pretty regularly now.
Case in point
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bastiat
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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2011, 10:02:19 PM »

I think libertarians are crucial for recruiting and influencing public thought.
At least with me while I thought the state was necessary I did not think it was evil and invented excuses for it.
Before I realized one could privatize the police I had to learn one could privatize schools with out catastrophe.
And libertarians also make moral critiques of the state in some area that we just broaden. 
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2011, 10:31:45 PM »

I think libertarians are crucial for recruiting and influencing public thought.
At least with me while I thought the state was necessary I did not think it was evil and invented excuses for it.
Before I realized one could privatize the police I had to learn one could privatize schools with out catastrophe.
And libertarians also make moral critiques of the state in some area that we just broaden. 

The guy who debated Stefan at Libertopia 2011 made this discussion pretty clear in my opinion. The benefits of political libertarianism include the message it spreads. The costs are that some people will cling to political libertarianism longer, due to the legitimization of the state. Stefan said that we're at the point where political action has more costs than benefits. I'm not completely sold though. All decisions are marginal decisions. I don't think market anarchists should participate in politics, but the vocal minarchists keep libertarianism on the map, and prevent it from becoming an invisible underground movement. They're the gateway. They serve a purpose. However, for those of us beyond them, there are more useful things to do.
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bastiat
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« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2011, 05:10:58 PM »

also ideological minarchism provides a useful, at least for me, depressurizing chamber or gate way drug as it is much less scary than becoming a bomb throwing anarchist.
And I would be willing to spend 40 years under a minimal state with 95%less intrustion, if it took just two years off the present sized state. But the United Front that makes sense is like working together on spreading ideas through institutions like YAL and the FSP.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2011, 05:45:15 PM »

But the United Front that makes sense is like working together on spreading ideas through institutions like YAL and the FSP.
Oddly enough, it was C4L sending me an email containing a Rothbard excerpt that set me off in the anarchist direction, and eventually led to me closing my C4L account.
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« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2011, 12:17:40 AM »

I reject trying to reform the government because I refuse to play by the government's rules and give those rules a sense of control/power.
I'd rather convince others to refuse the government's rule as well.

I would agree that people like Ron Paul do help some people trapped by government rule,but at the same time they're still giving power to those rules by merely participating.
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