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Author Topic: Better To Take Welfare Than Pay Taxes  (Read 6554 times)
JustSayNoToStatism
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« on: January 09, 2011, 04:16:27 PM »

In light of this article by Seth, I'll bring up a mental tug-of-war I have been fighting through, and see if you all can help me think it through.

I picked up the anarchist point of view around the start of September 2010. Oddly enough, I had just finished doing a summer of street maintenance for a group of municipal overlords. I told myself that I would not be able to resume working with them next summer.

Here are the major points in my head.

-It appears very hypocritical for an anarchist to do such a thing
-As a student worker I'm not unionized, but I would work alongside people who are, and don't know if I could stand it
-If I don't work there, the spot will just be filled by someone new, and the gov't will pay them LESS money, because I would get "seniority" pay. So by quitting I save the city some money, which is the opposite of what needs to happen to bankrupt gov'ts....although we're talking about only a little bit of money, and it's probably federal stimulus money anyways, so little effect
-If I don't work there, I end up in much worse financial shape, a pretty serious sacrifice which doesn't seem to have any tangible benefits, other than my ego...

I'm pretty well decided I can't work there. Seth's article puts doubt in my mind.

I'd appreciate it if you all can share your thoughts. Is this the right decision?
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Seth King
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2011, 05:03:50 PM »

I started to question the other day whether or not working for the government was alright ethically, but decided against following that thought pattern, for the time being. Eventually I will probably delve into it more deeply.

But for now I will say this: The article I posted was more of an either/or scenario. Which is better, to pay taxes or to consume taxes? As evidenced by the article, I came to the conclusion that it was better to be a tax eater than a tax feeder. But this doesn't discount that the anarchist should be working towards self-sufficiency sans paying taxes, i.e. working in the grey and black markets, and shopping there too. Eventually, I am hopeful that places like New Hampshire will have underground medical care as well. Pay out of pocket for care, or underground insurance, and no forced welfare schemes. Then I neither have to pony up for other welfare cases nor be a welfare case.

Working for the government is a whole different can of worms though. I've been against it since having converted but I will admit my new line of thought on welfare is making me second guess myself. For example, if I work for government and do as shitty a job as possible, am I not helping to bring down the system? One has to admit it makes the general public angry when they get abused or see incompetence in government employees. If you already had a tenured job in government I would take advantage of that the best I could, just like all of the other government employees.

This is a good question though, and although I haven't fully delved into the subject matter in my own head, I would like to read other people's thoughts, particularly formerlybrainwashed. Ha!
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2011, 08:57:45 PM »

If my "job" entails not doing much at all, then I'm effectively just stealing from the state. Is that okay in people's opinions?.... it's not like I would do this forever, just need funds to foot the state education bill anyways.... I can't really distance myself from the state until school's done....ugh

It still would feel really weird to go back. But if I don't I'll take in about half as much money this summer.
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 12:41:40 AM »

I recently met Walter Block and discussed similar issues with him. Though I'm inclined to agree with him that since taxation is theft you should take as much welfare or other public payments back from the thieves, I disagree that if you "came from Mars" you would still be morally just in sharing in the tax booty.
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Seth King
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 02:47:02 AM »

As a minarchist I saw the taking of "government money" as immoral. But as an anarchist I have come to see the theft(taxation) as the crime. Once that money has been stolen it is gone. How it gets spent is a moot point.
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 03:50:21 AM »

I see what you mean, but let's say that your neighbor gets robbed by a local gang. You go to the gang's hideout and beg them for your neighbor's television. They have stolen several televisions, so they give it to you. When your neighbor recognizes that you have his television in your house, are you seriously going to tell him to take it up with the gangsters?
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Seth King
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 07:15:01 AM »

In that case no, but when money is created out of thin air and we're all taxed unknown amounts laying claim to specific property becomes next to impossible.

Plus, the other reason why I've come to find taking government money to be "good" is because if you have a local gang, would you rather that gang be financially solvent or insolvent? If the taking of government money helps to make them that much more insolvent, I say good riddance.
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Doguhnew
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 11:15:50 AM »

Not sure why an anarchist can't be unionized. As long as it's a private union and not a public one of course. I feel that paying taxes and receiving welfare are both equally bad. Either way, by participating in each one you give the government validity. Living on welfare means that your very existence is dependent on the state's success and longevity.
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helio
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 05:29:32 PM »

Take the moral high ground and don't take a dime from them you don't have to. 

If everyone got on welfare, the system would indeed collapse, for a little while at least.  That isn't a permanent solution because once the financial and governmental system collapsed under the debt obligation burden and lack of productivity, some new 'Champion of the People' would rise promising to make everything wonderbar again if only the masses will do as they are commanded.  And it would be good for awhile as all the old debts are liquidated, the old currency abandoned, and a new one put in its place.

Then it starts all over again. 

Take the moral high ground.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2011, 09:35:45 AM »

Quote
Take the moral high ground.
Okay. So I created ten fake identities, and all of them are living below the poverty line and take in a welfare check!!!! ....Oh wait, that's not what you recommended?....ummm.....just kidding. To all the federal agents reading this, I repeat, just kidding.
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helio
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2011, 03:22:28 PM »

Only the state agents can create fake identities.  Know your place, peasant!
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2011, 04:53:32 PM »

Only the state agents can create fake identities.  Know your place, peasant!

OH NO!
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"I like to eat. Instead of a monarch I propose we have a Chef be final arbiter in matters. We'll call it anarcho-chefism."
-MAM
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