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Author Topic: Refute-A-Quote 6  (Read 3382 times)
Mr.Mister
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« on: October 26, 2014, 04:33:12 PM »

This one brings forth a (kind of) new concept and is backed up by hard evidence, so I wouldn't be surprised if I had to wait a long time for a response. Nevertheless, based on what I've seen from this forum thusfar, I'm certain an intelligent rebuttal can be formulated.

The bright side is that it's a relatively short quote.

Good Luck!

 "I, and many of my comrades, hold to the idea that scarcity is manufactured in order for profits to rise; many studies show that we currently have the technology needed to provide for the entire world's population, if we would just cooperate instead of competing, but let's say we don't. How is that a problem for anarcho-communism? Why can't that be solved through cooperation and solidarity, instead of competition? I really don't understand."

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macsnafu
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2014, 05:35:36 PM »

I'm not familiar with these studies, so it would be silly for me to try to criticize them, even if they're flawed.  Instead, let's assume the studies are correct, and for the sake of argument agree that we currently have the technology to provide for the entire world's population.

First, such technology, if it exists, came about in our current mixed statist/market system.  It was developed based upon the incentives provided in the market economy.  There are people who are starving in the world.  Why? Because they live under more restrictive regimes that make it difficult or impossible for them to do what is necessary to increase their productivity and become wealthy enough to adequately support themselves.

The market process is a continuous process of supply and demand, production and consumption.  It is a process that is continually adapting to changing circumstances in order for supply to meet demand.  If we simply took the existing technology and tried to bypass the process and simply distribute the necessary goods to everybody, there would be various problems.  For one, if the distribution networks weren't already in place, that, too, would have to be produced.  But the distribution problem that the market process solves is not so easily solved outside of the process--is it more efficient to distribute by train, truck, boat, plane, or some combination?  And exactly how much of which products need to go where to satisfy everybody's needs?  Again, there's that pesky question of 'need', and how much does someone truly need.  Or to put it another way, supply is produced to meet demand.  Outside of the market process, there is no easily identifiable demand to be met, much less an easy way to recognize changes in demand.

Second, what are these people who are unable to support themselves supposed to do?  Is it really manageable and acceptable for part of the world's population to be productive while another part of the population is unproductive? Or will certain expectations and requirements be imposed on them for the charity provided?  And who will decide what those requirements are?

Another problem is that technology is hardly self-sufficient--it breaks down, and needs maintenance and repairs, and eventually machinery and equipment has to be replaced altogether.  How will this be provided outside of a market economy?

So once again, we see that the market process has already solved problems of incentives for production and distribution to meet needs and desires.  Without the market process, these problems are difficult or even impossible to solve.

One important sidenote: while the market process calls for competition, it is not readily known that it also calls for a large degree of cooperation, as it takes many steps and many hands to turn raw materials into finished goods that an end consumer uses or consumes.  This calls for cooperative arrangements between farmers, miners, manufacturers, shippers, warehouses, retail outlets, and, of course, the end consumer.  Not to mention the necessities of maintenance, technological support, financial accounting, insurance, information processing and storage, legal contracts and support, and other things we take for granted in our modern society.
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Mr.Mister
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2014, 06:12:06 PM »

Well done, I agree. The process of redistribution would in itself take lots of resources and drastically increase scarcity.
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MAM
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 02:34:25 PM »

" "I, and many of my comrades, hold to the idea that scarcity is manufactured in order for profits to rise; many studies show that we currently have the technology needed to provide for the entire world's population, if we would just cooperate instead of competing, but let's say we don't. How is that a problem for anarcho-communism? Why can't that be solved through cooperation and solidarity, instead of competition? I really don't understand.""

There is a difference between market scarcity and scarcity. Example diamonds are "scarce" in the market because of cartels controlling win the diamonds enter and a massive propaganda campaign to make people think that natural cut diamonds are better than manufactured diamonds (like are used in industry)...

If the US relocated the budget from war (spending 50% of global military expidentures single handly) I think alot of hungry folk could be fed. Of course such centralization brings the ability to abuse the system. So Pros and Cons.
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anarchoguitarist
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2014, 09:05:31 PM »

"I, and many of my comrades, hold to the idea that scarcity is manufactured in order for profits to rise;

This statement is so nonsensical it proves that leftists (and followers of the Zeitgeist Movement) live in a fantasy world. To say that "scarcity is manufactured" is like saying "A lamp makes darkness." Darkness is not created, it is the absence of light. Scarcity is not created, it is the absence of goods.  Scarcity is the natural state of the world. The only way to fight against scarcity is through the production of goods.  So to say that the production of goods causes scarcity is utterly foolish.

If you want to know what scarcity is, go into the woods naked and without any tools.  Then try to survive. You will quickly learn that your lack of goods is not caused by market. Goods are difficult to obtain from nature (in most cases). The market is the greatest institution to combat scarcity in the history of the world.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is either a moron or a spoiled child who has never had to work a day in his life.
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