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Author Topic: An additional reason why left-wing anarchism is bogus  (Read 7466 times)
state hater
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« on: September 15, 2013, 02:43:40 PM »

We are all no doubt familiar with the Ron Paul phenomenon:  a minarchist-and possibly closeted anarcho-capitalist-runs as a Republican for Congress and wins numerous times, and runs for President and attracts a huge following.  Many people were impressed with his ability to infiltrate the Republican party and become a fly in the ointment of statists of varying political stripes.  Many of the people who supported him have ended up as anarcho-capitalists. 

Aside from the numerous criticisms that have been leveled against all manner of economically left-wing "anarchists" (among them being their desire to use violence against people minding their own business and destroy their property, their insistence that they have the right to bud into private, voluntary deals between employer and employee, and the inescapable fact that the foundation of left-wing economics is government intervention and control of the economy), there is another peculiarity about these confused individuals that should be pointed out:  they lack any sizable minarchist counterparts.  There are legions of minarchists who are the counterparts of us anarcho-capitalists:  they are the aforementioned Ron Paul fans, among others.  Anarcho-Capitalists have minarchist counterparts both inside and outside the Republican Party, but there is no sizable contingent of minarchist counterparts to "anarcho"-communists/socialists/syndicalists/[all other left-wing "anarchists"], either inside or outside the Democrat Party.  I find this very strange and very interesting. 

Could it be that the desire for little to no government is fundamentally incompatible with left-wing economics, and that left-wing anarchists are thinly-disguised statist idiots who think that calling themselves anarchists will help them outmaneuver their ideological opponents?
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2013, 03:02:19 PM »

Aside from the numerous criticisms that have been leveled against all manner of economically left-wing "anarchists" (among them being their desire to use violence against people minding their own business and destroy their property, their insistence that they have the right to bud into private, voluntary deals between employer and employee, and the inescapable fact that the foundation of left-wing economics is government intervention and control of the economy), there is another peculiarity about these confused individuals that should be pointed out:  they lack any sizable minarchist counterparts

Could it be that the desire for little to no government is fundamentally incompatible with left-wing economics, and that left-wing anarchists are thinly-disguised statist idiots who think that calling themselves anarchists will help them outmaneuver their ideological opponents?

Of course.  They just don't recognize that what they advocate is democracy, with a nonsensical economic outlook.
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Seth King
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2013, 03:03:09 PM »

I have been spending a decent amount of time trying to better understand anarcho-communism on reddit. I'd say I went in with a fairly open mind.

I think the thing that bothers me most is their complete lack of understanding of basic economics. Simple things like supply and demand, the subjective value theory, price discovery, etc. Those concepts are totally lost on anarcho-communists.

All they ever seem to focus on is hierarchy and egalistarianism. They really seem almost like infants crying foul because one of their peers in better than them at something and got a better reward.

I really don't think their philosophy is worth a damn, to be honest. I used to think that their philosophy would compete with ours, but now I think their numbers are never really going to grow. They'll always be a whining minority.
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2013, 03:28:37 PM »

Quote
I really don't think their philosophy is worth a damn, to be honest. I used to think that their philosophy would compete with ours, but now I think their numbers are never really going to grow. They'll always be a whining minority.

They say the same things about us! It's pretty hilarious.
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2013, 03:29:36 PM »

So is there even such a thing as an economically left-wing minarchist, or are they just extremely rare?  

Either way, do you three agree that the lack of a continuous spectrum among economically left-wing people between full blown statist and "anarchist" (i.e., because there are few to no economically left-wing minarchists, thereby leaving a huge gap between dime-a-dozen liberal statists and left-wing "anarchists") casts serious doubt on the validity of the claims by these left-wing "anarchists" that they are in fact anarchists?

Edit:  Put another way, why does almost every minarchist who moves on to anarchism become an anarcho-capitalist or voluntaryist?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 03:45:18 PM by state hater » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2013, 03:36:02 PM »

I really don't think their philosophy is worth a damn, to be honest. I used to think that their philosophy would compete with ours, but now I think their numbers are never really going to grow. They'll always be a whining minority.

In one of my early threads, I stated that economically left-wing "anarchist" schools of thought were populated by less "serious" (perhaps it would be more accurate to say less permanent) types of people.  In other words, your stereotypical "anarchist" who lives in his parents' basement until he's thirty, showers about once a month, and vandalizes private property during various protests, definitely tends heavily to be economically left, and many of them tend not to remain ancom/ansynd/etc. past their early thirties.  In other words, they're loser youths who either eventually develop a modicum of responsibility or else fall by the wayside.  I remember you and others were skeptical of my perception, stating how we are so vastly outnumbered by these kooks, and that many of them are middle aged and eldery.

I'm glad that you're more optimistic now.  Smiley
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 03:40:48 PM by state hater » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2013, 04:03:56 PM »

I really don't think their philosophy is worth a damn, to be honest. I used to think that their philosophy would compete with ours, but now I think their numbers are never really going to grow. They'll always be a whining minority.

In one of my early threads, I stated that economically left-wing "anarchist" schools of thought were populated by less "serious" (perhaps it would be more accurate to say less permanent) types of people.  In other words, your stereotypical "anarchist" who lives in his parents' basement until he's thirty, showers about once a month, and vandalizes private property during various protests, definitely tends heavily to be economically left, and many of them tend not to remain ancom/ansynd/etc. past their early thirties.  In other words, they're loser youths who either eventually develop a modicum of responsibility or else fall by the wayside.  I remember you and others were skeptical of my perception, stating how we are so vastly outnumbered by these kooks, and that many of them are middle aged and eldery.

I'm glad that you're more optimistic now.  Smiley

There seems to be a significant correspondence between left-wing politics, particularly extreme positions on the left, like communism, and not having a proverbial pot to piss in.  The whole "rob the rich and give to the poor" idea is only appealing to the poor.  The first time you get a real paycheck, and see what's taken out of it to support the have-nots, tends to change your perspective.  This might explain the tendency to "grow out of" an-com philosophy.  That and a deeper understanding of what actually makes things go.  The workers are predominantly "workers" because they're not qualified to be anything else.  Not a popular statement, but true enough.
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2013, 04:04:18 PM »

So is there even such a thing as an economically left-wing minarchist, or are they just extremely rare?  

Either way, do you three agree that the lack of a continuous spectrum among economically left-wing people between full blown statist and "anarchist" (i.e., because there are few to no economically left-wing minarchists, thereby leaving a huge gap between dime-a-dozen liberal statists and left-wing "anarchists") casts serious doubt on the validity of the claims by these left-wing "anarchists" that they are in fact anarchists?

Edit:  Put another way, why does almost every minarchist who moves on to anarchism become an anarcho-capitalist or voluntaryist?

I think the problem lies in that to go full scale, it needs to have a mechanism to enforce their view of equality of stuff/work.  That doesn't just happen naturally.  That doesn't seem to leave a lot of room for a small government type in the sense that we see it.  

The result is they build organizations within the framework we are all stuck in right now, and end up with things like co-ops.  They are essentially libertarian socialists.  

I've said this a few times in the past.  Hippies are the peaceful version of that social vision.  I think we would have no problem co-existing with them.  I also think their econ system works, on a small scale, only including themselves.  The problem is when the other types attempt to force it on the world, it falls apart economically as it requires people to be willing and able to participate.  By the time they are forced to participate, everyone is living a subsistence lifestyle.  

I don't think they are some tiny group.  I don't think the concepts will go away.  It is a different sense of right and wrong.  People do not require things to make economic sense to utterly believe in it.  
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victim77
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2013, 04:35:50 PM »


I think the problem lies in that to go full scale, it needs to have a mechanism to enforce their view of equality of stuff/work.  That doesn't just happen naturally.  That doesn't seem to leave a lot of room for a small government type in the sense that we see it.
I would tend to disagree with that. I think that getting rid of the government and government sponsored corporations will do wonders for wealth inequality, social justice, and worker's rights.
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2013, 04:36:48 PM »


I think the problem lies in that to go full scale, it needs to have a mechanism to enforce their view of equality of stuff/work.  That doesn't just happen naturally.  That doesn't seem to leave a lot of room for a small government type in the sense that we see it.
I would tend to disagree with that. I think that getting rid of the government and government sponsored corporations will do wonders for wealth inequality, social justice, and worker's rights.

I don't disagree with that, but that isn't where they stop. 
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victim77
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2013, 05:51:27 PM »


I think the problem lies in that to go full scale, it needs to have a mechanism to enforce their view of equality of stuff/work.  That doesn't just happen naturally.  That doesn't seem to leave a lot of room for a small government type in the sense that we see it.
I would tend to disagree with that. I think that getting rid of the government and government sponsored corporations will do wonders for wealth inequality, social justice, and worker's rights.

I don't disagree with that, but that isn't where they stop. 
Are you talking about ancomms?
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Seth King
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 06:51:48 PM »

I really don't think their philosophy is worth a damn, to be honest. I used to think that their philosophy would compete with ours, but now I think their numbers are never really going to grow. They'll always be a whining minority.

 I remember you and others were skeptical of my perception, stating how we are so vastly outnumbered by these kooks, and that many of them are middle aged and eldery.

I'm glad that you're more optimistic now.  Smiley

They still vastly outnumber us, but I think we have the potential to really grow over the coming years. People are going to come to hate the state and they're going to be presented with a choice. Anarcho-communism and all of its flavors, or anarcho-capitalism. I think they'll choose anarcho-capitalism.

Anarcho-communism is the philosophy of poverty for all.
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victim77
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2013, 07:43:41 PM »

I really don't think their philosophy is worth a damn, to be honest. I used to think that their philosophy would compete with ours, but now I think their numbers are never really going to grow. They'll always be a whining minority.

 I remember you and others were skeptical of my perception, stating how we are so vastly outnumbered by these kooks, and that many of them are middle aged and eldery.

I'm glad that you're more optimistic now.  Smiley

They still vastly outnumber us, but I think we have the potential to really grow over the coming years. People are going to come to hate the state and they're going to be presented with a choice. Anarcho-communism and all of its flavors, or anarcho-capitalism. I think they'll choose anarcho-capitalism.

Anarcho-communism is the philosophy of poverty for all.
Come on now it's "voluntaryism". True capitalism has been stained by crony capitalism. Our PR department sent out a memo about this.
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Seth King
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 08:38:28 PM »

I really don't think their philosophy is worth a damn, to be honest. I used to think that their philosophy would compete with ours, but now I think their numbers are never really going to grow. They'll always be a whining minority.

 I remember you and others were skeptical of my perception, stating how we are so vastly outnumbered by these kooks, and that many of them are middle aged and eldery.

I'm glad that you're more optimistic now.  Smiley

They still vastly outnumber us, but I think we have the potential to really grow over the coming years. People are going to come to hate the state and they're going to be presented with a choice. Anarcho-communism and all of its flavors, or anarcho-capitalism. I think they'll choose anarcho-capitalism.

Anarcho-communism is the philosophy of poverty for all.
Come on now it's "voluntaryism". True capitalism has been stained by crony capitalism. Our PR department sent out a memo about this.

It depends on who you're trying to appeal to.  Wink
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Seth King
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2013, 10:05:56 PM »

http://lionsofliberty.com/2013/06/03/mondays-with-murray-rothbard-on-chomsky-and-anarcho-syndicalism/
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