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Author Topic: How to Not Support the Troops?  (Read 7796 times)
Hanzo
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« on: May 27, 2013, 11:20:08 AM »

I hate the fact that most of my friends, my family, and American culture in general have a fetish for the troops. I always hold my tongue, but it gets really frustrating when I can't express how I feel to people I otherwise trust because of the social consequences.

How big of a deal is this not supporting the troops principle to you? I'm not willing to lose close friends or get my entire family pissed over this sort of thing. So should I just continue holding my tongue?
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Batchain
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 01:36:42 PM »

Well if you aren't willing to lose those relationships over "this sort of thing" then I think you should keep biting your tongue.  Almost everyone knows someone who was/is in the military, and since this involves peoples loved ones and life and death stuff...  people aren't going to take kindly to someone saying their *insert loved one here* was not the wonderful hero they thought they were but at best they were actually a person that was duped into being a puppet for the politicians.... 

Personally I like take my principals quite seriously... I say what I want to, if people can't handle it, I am willing to lose them.    Otherwise I'll spend too much time being sick to my stomach.  I do *try* to bite my tongue sometimes because I just don't want to get into it at the moment or whatever... but sometimes I just blurt things out almost uncontrollably, lol.  I avoid things like memorial day BBQs because I can't guarantee I'll be able to bite my tongue, yet taking on the whole team during any sort of Yay-Team-Day seems totally pointless... plus all the patriotism makes me not so hungry for burgers anymore anyway.
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Seth King
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 02:32:03 PM »

I do my best to avoid statists. It's why I moved to New Hampshire.
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 02:40:59 PM »

 It's hard interacting with people who suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. The most you can do is take comfort in the fact that you realize the truth, and try to offset the tyranny by interacting with people who think like you. That's what I've done with my life.
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 03:07:09 PM »

 This article gives a good perspective on how to approach the troop question:
http://c4ss.org/content/19355
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oooorgle
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2013, 04:59:47 PM »

You are probably best to keep shut if you want to know these people... No one likes their behavior compared to the definition of a sociopath, especially when it fits perfectly.

For myself, I rub it in as hard as I can and especially when they say something that is unutterably degraded which usually evolves around the hatred of Muslims or Mexicans, any colored person really. I ruin family dinners, to let them know. And if that is all it ever accomplishes, to let them know, it is something more than I had before, which was a fake mask I always wore when in their presence. No more.
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2013, 05:57:06 PM »

You are probably best to keep shut if you want to know these people... No one likes their behavior compared to the definition of a sociopath, especially when it fits perfectly.

For myself, I rub it in as hard as I can and especially when they say something that is unutterably degraded which usually evolves around the hatred of Muslims or Mexicans, any colored person really. I ruin family dinners, to let them know. And if that is all it ever accomplishes, to let them know, it is something more than I had before, which was a fake mask I always wore when in their presence. No more.

I always speak my mind people don't like that I'm right.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2013, 07:54:14 PM »

In some environments I hold my tongue (but even if pressed, I will NOT express admiration or support). Around family and close friends, I'm openly not in support. I can't bottle up my thoughts around EVERYONE, it wouldn't be healthy.
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2013, 08:12:29 PM »

Personally I say this: I support the troops (with the obvious exception of blatant war criminals) but not the war itself.

I know I'll get shouted down for this one, but really guys, not every soldier grasps the reality of the State and of warfare in general. They're not all Orwellians dreaming of blood and power. Some of them honestly think they best server society in this manner.

In fact, the first half of that last sentence could be applied to many Statists, I think.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2013, 08:36:02 PM »

Personally I say this: I support the troops (with the obvious exception of blatant war criminals) but not the war itself.

I know I'll get shouted down for this one...
Don't think of it as shouting. I'm coolly, calmly, and sarcastically replying:
"I support rapists (with the obvious exception of people who commit rape and murder) but not rape itself."

This is a rewrite of the usual transaction:
Someone: I don't support the war, but I support the troops
Me: I don't support rape, but I support rapists.
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oooorgle
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« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2013, 08:37:06 AM »

This is a rewrite of the usual transaction:
Someone: I don't support the war, but I support the troops
Me: I don't support rape, but I support rapists.

Well said.
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AgoristTeen1994
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« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2013, 12:37:54 PM »

Don't think of it as shouting. I'm coolly, calmly, and sarcastically replying:
"I support rapists (with the obvious exception of people who commit rape and murder) but not rape itself."

This is a rewrite of the usual transaction:
Someone: I don't support the war, but I support the troops
Me: I don't support rape, but I support rapists.

In all honesty JSNTS while I do see the point your raising you have to consider the following:

1. Most rapists either know what their doing is unethical, and don't care, or simply don't care whether it's ethical or unethical, it makes them happy and that's all that matters, screw the rest of the world. I highly doubt the majority of rapists truly believe their doing a GOOD thing when they rape someone, "Good" being defined as beneficial to either the victim, the victim's friends and family, or the rapist's friends and family. Soldiers on the other hand are among the many people who have been brainwashed from cradle to whatever point in their life their currently at, up to and including the grave, to believe the government is necessary and for many, not just necessary but good, and that by joining the military they're doing a good thing.

2. A lot of soldiers enlist right out of high school. I knew a guy who is the same age as me that went through that program where he joined at 17 (his parents signed their consent) and went into the National Guard for his senior year, and then once he graduated went onto active duty. At that age the vast majority of them have no idea that being part of the military, especially in a combat position during military operations, is not as glamorous, exciting and fun as they most likely imagined. When it comes to the saying "Join the military! Go to exciting new places, meet new people, and then kill them." they tend to forget the "and then kill them" part, or think it's no where near as psychologically difficult as it actually is.

3. Again I must emphasize that they truly believe due to extensive brainwashing that they are doing good. Sure they're complete morons for thinking that, and their intention of doing good, as well as the belief that that they are, doesn't actually mean they are, far from it. But that's not how they see it. I support the troops in the sense that I recognize that most of them are probably a bunch of brainwashed morons who haven't recognized the truth of what the military is.


In summary while bashing troops does have it's (pragmatic) uses, I've found it's usually better to go directly against the war, and the government that initiates and maintains the brainwashing of the soldiers, than the brainwashed bastards who are being good little pawns. Doing otherwise isn't likely to convince people.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2013, 03:14:56 PM »

AgoristTeen1994:
My concern is with the use of the word "support." It's one thing for you to say that you don't necessarily spend energy hating every single soldier. But it's different to offer support. Support is a step above approval, approximating an endorsement. I don't think it's possible for anarchists to "support" troops.
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State-God
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« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2013, 08:01:39 PM »

AgoristTeen1994:
My concern is with the use of the word "support." It's one thing for you to say that you don't necessarily spend energy hating every single soldier. But it's different to offer support. Support is a step above approval, approximating an endorsement. I don't think it's possible for anarchists to "support" troops.

I've been trying to come up with a response all day, and I think you summed up my thoughts perfectly Agorist.

You're definitely right there JSNTS; we shouldn't "support" troops in the sense of cheering them on whenever they burn a village to the ground.

I support them only in the sense that people in Massachusetts here usually mean, in that I just want them to come and stay home (although leaving the army period is definitely a preference).
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AgoristTeen1994
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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2013, 09:00:51 PM »

@State-God: Great! I guess great minds as intelligent as ours DO think alike Wink

@JSNTS I'm going to go with what State-God said. Of course I don't know what the usual definition of "support the troops" in my corner of Michigan is...mostly because I avoid political discussion offline, unless it is with very close friends. But from what I've seen these things come in three flavors. 1. Completely and utterly apathetic and only goes with what seems the most popular opinion in this area. 2. (and this is the rarest one) A true constitutionalist/minarchist who dislikes war and wants the troops home, and possibly even a near or total disbanding of the standing army of the U.S. and switching over to a state militia system like used to exist (there's only one guy I know who actually wants the latter) and 3. (and the most common) Raging neocons who preach Constitutionalism but in reality don't give a shit about tyranny if the tyrants have an R. next to their name and are associated with Elephants. (I'm referring to republicans if you can't figure it out.) About half of group 3, don't consciously realize how bloody and violent what they advocate truly is, and if they realized it about 75% of them would "defect" to group 2. The other half are aware and don't care how bloody and violent it is because it's 'MURICA doing it and anyone who thinks otherwise is a Damned TURRIST RAGHEAD and it's miltary killing the people is from 'MURICA FUCK YEAH!! (I very rarely associate with that last group unless it's necessary.)


"Ahem" Sorry for going off on a tangent there.  Tongue Anyway my point is by "Support the troops" I mean it in the sense State-God does.
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