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Author Topic: Stefan Molyneux has cancer  (Read 63589 times)
MAM
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 06:34:27 PM »

Well I'm not an expert either, but there are some red flags that I see immediately with this treatment...

I did a quick search and found that the presence of peer review is lacking. I'm weary...



Watch the movie before you judge.

There's no scientific evidence that Burzynski's method works. If it does, why hasn't he published the results of his clinical trials? Or provided other real evidence, other than an emotional movie with anecdotes?

When I heard about Stefan's condition, I was really sad. But when I read all the comments advocating some form of alternative "medicine", I got really angry. Recommending unscientific bullshit for sick people is disgusting, and it costs lives. I'm surprised his audience doesn't know any better...

I still want you to answer the question above, but I have to say this sort of response really incenses me.

I don't understand how anarchists can see just how corrupt state schools, law, roads etc. are, but think that state medicine is somehow exempt from corruption, and anything that doesn't suck up to corporate medicine is somehow unscientific.

It's the same baseless attack that Global Warming alarmists use to smear skeptics. It's also really pathetic.

 

This is essentially an ad hominem attack. Is the FDA bullshit? Yes! Is requiring peer reviewed non anecdotal appeal to emotion evidence bullshit? No.

Is the fact that drugs can't be sold and used with out FDA permission abhorrent? Yes, but that doesn't mean that everything they don't like is a panacea that they are trying to cover up.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
Seth King
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2013, 06:36:25 PM »

Well I'm not an expert either, but there are some red flags that I see immediately with this treatment...

I did a quick search and found that the presence of peer review is lacking. I'm weary...



Watch the movie before you judge.

There's no scientific evidence that Burzynski's method works. If it does, why hasn't he published the results of his clinical trials? Or provided other real evidence, other than an emotional movie with anecdotes?

When I heard about Stefan's condition, I was really sad. But when I read all the comments advocating some form of alternative "medicine", I got really angry. Recommending unscientific bullshit for sick people is disgusting, and it costs lives. I'm surprised his audience doesn't know any better...

Did you watch the movie?

After a few minutes I didn't see a reason to continue. But I guess you don't form your opinions on medicine based upon youtube videos neither anyway, right?

(Sorry if I come across as aggressive in this issue. 3 of my grandparents died in cancer, and I know other people too, so I take it quite seriously.)

And I always ask this in such matters: Where is the data?

For somebody who lost three family members to cancer it seems like you should keep an open mind about things things and not judge a movie based on it's first few minutes. Millions of people die every year from cancer and the vast majority of them go the statist route. So, really, I can't see how anybody can defend the statist pharmaceutical industry.
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2013, 06:39:17 PM »


I still want you to answer the question above, but I have to say this sort of response really incenses me.

I don't understand how anarchists can see just how corrupt state schools, law, roads etc. are, but think that state medicine is somehow exempt from corruption, and anything that doesn't suck up to corporate medicine is somehow unscientific.

It's the same baseless attack that Global Warming alarmists use to smear skeptics. It's also really pathetic.
 

Why do you equate state medicine with science? There's a lot of corruption obviously in FDA and similar institutions, and in scientific circles too, but that doesn't change the importance of the scientific method. Not everything in the world is a conspiracy and not everything is suppressed by the state. Where are the publications, where is the data?

My problem is not with skepticism, on the contrary, with the LACK OF skepticism when it comes to alternative medicine, and jumping on any alternative bandwagon just because it goes against corporate medicine.
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Seth King
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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2013, 06:40:30 PM »

Well I'm not an expert either, but there are some red flags that I see immediately with this treatment...

I did a quick search and found that the presence of peer review is lacking. I'm weary...



Watch the movie before you judge.

There's no scientific evidence that Burzynski's method works. If it does, why hasn't he published the results of his clinical trials? Or provided other real evidence, other than an emotional movie with anecdotes?

When I heard about Stefan's condition, I was really sad. But when I read all the comments advocating some form of alternative "medicine", I got really angry. Recommending unscientific bullshit for sick people is disgusting, and it costs lives. I'm surprised his audience doesn't know any better...

I still want you to answer the question above, but I have to say this sort of response really incenses me.

I don't understand how anarchists can see just how corrupt state schools, law, roads etc. are, but think that state medicine is somehow exempt from corruption, and anything that doesn't suck up to corporate medicine is somehow unscientific.

It's the same baseless attack that Global Warming alarmists use to smear skeptics. It's also really pathetic.

 

This is essentially an ad hominem attack. Is the FDA bullshit? Yes! Is requiring peer reviewed non anecdotal appeal to emotion evidence bullshit? No.

Is the fact that drugs can't be sold and used with out FDA permission abhorrent? Yes, but that doesn't mean that everything they don't like is a panacea that they are trying to cover up.

Did you finished the entire movie?

Peer review is great, so long as your peers aren't shills for the state. You have the vast majority of doctors who are essentially bought and paid for by the AMA, so seeking their review doesn't mean shit to me.

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MAM
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« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2013, 06:45:34 PM »

Well I'm not an expert either, but there are some red flags that I see immediately with this treatment...

I did a quick search and found that the presence of peer review is lacking. I'm weary...



Watch the movie before you judge.

There's no scientific evidence that Burzynski's method works. If it does, why hasn't he published the results of his clinical trials? Or provided other real evidence, other than an emotional movie with anecdotes?

When I heard about Stefan's condition, I was really sad. But when I read all the comments advocating some form of alternative "medicine", I got really angry. Recommending unscientific bullshit for sick people is disgusting, and it costs lives. I'm surprised his audience doesn't know any better...

Did you watch the movie?

After a few minutes I didn't see a reason to continue. But I guess you don't form your opinions on medicine based upon youtube videos neither anyway, right?

(Sorry if I come across as aggressive in this issue. 3 of my grandparents died in cancer, and I know other people too, so I take it quite seriously.)

And I always ask this in such matters: Where is the data?

For somebody who lost three family members to cancer it seems like you should keep an open mind about things things and not judge a movie based on it's first few minutes. Millions of people die every year from cancer and the vast majority of them go the statist route. So, really, I can't see how anybody can defend the statist pharmaceutical industry.

Both my grandmas were killed by cancer as well. The first was diagnosed early, it was Multiple Myeloma and she lived for ten years with the conventional treatment. My other grandma was killed by lung cancer.

People claim the prayers heal and they also claim that magic works, would it be nice if that was true? Yes, but that doesn't mean I believe it. Just because something is convenient doesn't make it true. Over the years this Burzynski fellow has submitted around 60 Phase II trails and 1 Phase III trail, none of the results have been published.

Just because the FDA is evil and wants peer reviewed research doesn't mean that the scientific method is statist, rigged, doesn't work, and is evil.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2013, 06:46:59 PM »


For somebody who lost three family members to cancer it seems like you should keep an open mind about things things and not judge a movie based on it's first few minutes. Millions of people die every year from cancer and the vast majority of them go the statist route. So, really, I can't see how anybody can defend the statist pharmaceutical industry.

As I said, I don't defend the statist pharmaceutical industry, I defend the scientific method of aquiring knowledge.
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2013, 06:47:13 PM »


I still want you to answer the question above, but I have to say this sort of response really incenses me.

I don't understand how anarchists can see just how corrupt state schools, law, roads etc. are, but think that state medicine is somehow exempt from corruption, and anything that doesn't suck up to corporate medicine is somehow unscientific.

It's the same baseless attack that Global Warming alarmists use to smear skeptics. It's also really pathetic.
 

Why do you equate state medicine with science? There's a lot of corruption obviously in FDA and similar institutions, and in scientific circles too, but that doesn't change the importance of the scientific method. Not everything in the world is a conspiracy and not everything is suppressed by the state. Where are the publications, where is the data?

My problem is not with skepticism, on the contrary, with the LACK OF skepticism when it comes to alternative medicine, and jumping on any alternative bandwagon just because it goes against corporate medicine.

I'm all about the scientific method. I studied Physics at one of the top ten schools in the nation. And I can tell you from experience that a lot of scientists don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and are trapped in a very statist paradigm. You think somebody who buys into the myths of the state is going to be a good scientist? I'd say it's very unlikely! Most scientists aren't worth their weight in sand. I know that may come as a great disappointment to you.
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MAM
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« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2013, 06:47:38 PM »

Well I'm not an expert either, but there are some red flags that I see immediately with this treatment...

I did a quick search and found that the presence of peer review is lacking. I'm weary...



Watch the movie before you judge.

There's no scientific evidence that Burzynski's method works. If it does, why hasn't he published the results of his clinical trials? Or provided other real evidence, other than an emotional movie with anecdotes?

When I heard about Stefan's condition, I was really sad. But when I read all the comments advocating some form of alternative "medicine", I got really angry. Recommending unscientific bullshit for sick people is disgusting, and it costs lives. I'm surprised his audience doesn't know any better...

I still want you to answer the question above, but I have to say this sort of response really incenses me.

I don't understand how anarchists can see just how corrupt state schools, law, roads etc. are, but think that state medicine is somehow exempt from corruption, and anything that doesn't suck up to corporate medicine is somehow unscientific.

It's the same baseless attack that Global Warming alarmists use to smear skeptics. It's also really pathetic.

 

This is essentially an ad hominem attack. Is the FDA bullshit? Yes! Is requiring peer reviewed non anecdotal appeal to emotion evidence bullshit? No.

Is the fact that drugs can't be sold and used with out FDA permission abhorrent? Yes, but that doesn't mean that everything they don't like is a panacea that they are trying to cover up.

Did you finished the entire movie?

Peer review is great, so long as your peers aren't shills for the state. You have the vast majority of doctors who are essentially bought and paid for by the AMA, so seeking their review doesn't mean shit to me.



Yes I finished the entire movie, and I believe that there is a medical industrial complex just like I believe there is a military industrial complex.

Just because the system is broken doesn't mean that science doesn't work.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
Seth King
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« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2013, 06:51:45 PM »

Well I'm not an expert either, but there are some red flags that I see immediately with this treatment...

I did a quick search and found that the presence of peer review is lacking. I'm weary...



Watch the movie before you judge.

There's no scientific evidence that Burzynski's method works. If it does, why hasn't he published the results of his clinical trials? Or provided other real evidence, other than an emotional movie with anecdotes?

When I heard about Stefan's condition, I was really sad. But when I read all the comments advocating some form of alternative "medicine", I got really angry. Recommending unscientific bullshit for sick people is disgusting, and it costs lives. I'm surprised his audience doesn't know any better...

I still want you to answer the question above, but I have to say this sort of response really incenses me.

I don't understand how anarchists can see just how corrupt state schools, law, roads etc. are, but think that state medicine is somehow exempt from corruption, and anything that doesn't suck up to corporate medicine is somehow unscientific.

It's the same baseless attack that Global Warming alarmists use to smear skeptics. It's also really pathetic.

 

This is essentially an ad hominem attack. Is the FDA bullshit? Yes! Is requiring peer reviewed non anecdotal appeal to emotion evidence bullshit? No.

Is the fact that drugs can't be sold and used with out FDA permission abhorrent? Yes, but that doesn't mean that everything they don't like is a panacea that they are trying to cover up.

Did you finished the entire movie?

Peer review is great, so long as your peers aren't shills for the state. You have the vast majority of doctors who are essentially bought and paid for by the AMA, so seeking their review doesn't mean shit to me.



Yes I finished the entire movie, and I believe that there is a medical industrial complex just like I believe there is a military industrial complex.

Just because the system is broken doesn't mean that science doesn't work.

Did the movie at any point in time say that science doesn't work? I'm failing to see anywhere in this thread where I said that science doesn't work. Why would you mention that?
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MAM
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« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2013, 06:52:50 PM »


I still want you to answer the question above, but I have to say this sort of response really incenses me.

I don't understand how anarchists can see just how corrupt state schools, law, roads etc. are, but think that state medicine is somehow exempt from corruption, and anything that doesn't suck up to corporate medicine is somehow unscientific.

It's the same baseless attack that Global Warming alarmists use to smear skeptics. It's also really pathetic.
 

Why do you equate state medicine with science? There's a lot of corruption obviously in FDA and similar institutions, and in scientific circles too, but that doesn't change the importance of the scientific method. Not everything in the world is a conspiracy and not everything is suppressed by the state. Where are the publications, where is the data?

My problem is not with skepticism, on the contrary, with the LACK OF skepticism when it comes to alternative medicine, and jumping on any alternative bandwagon just because it goes against corporate medicine.

I'm all about the scientific method. I studied Physics at one of the top ten schools in the nation. And I can tell you from experience that a lot of scientists don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and are trapped in a very statist paradigm. You think somebody who buys into the myths of the state is going to be a good scientist? I'd say it's very unlikely! Most scientists aren't worth their weight in sand. I know that may come as a great disappointment to you.

Replace statist with Christian, or Muslim, and we have a very interesting argument wouldn't you say?
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
MAM
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« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2013, 06:55:50 PM »

Well I'm not an expert either, but there are some red flags that I see immediately with this treatment...

I did a quick search and found that the presence of peer review is lacking. I'm weary...



Watch the movie before you judge.

There's no scientific evidence that Burzynski's method works. If it does, why hasn't he published the results of his clinical trials? Or provided other real evidence, other than an emotional movie with anecdotes?

When I heard about Stefan's condition, I was really sad. But when I read all the comments advocating some form of alternative "medicine", I got really angry. Recommending unscientific bullshit for sick people is disgusting, and it costs lives. I'm surprised his audience doesn't know any better...

I still want you to answer the question above, but I have to say this sort of response really incenses me.

I don't understand how anarchists can see just how corrupt state schools, law, roads etc. are, but think that state medicine is somehow exempt from corruption, and anything that doesn't suck up to corporate medicine is somehow unscientific.

It's the same baseless attack that Global Warming alarmists use to smear skeptics. It's also really pathetic.

 

This is essentially an ad hominem attack. Is the FDA bullshit? Yes! Is requiring peer reviewed non anecdotal appeal to emotion evidence bullshit? No.

Is the fact that drugs can't be sold and used with out FDA permission abhorrent? Yes, but that doesn't mean that everything they don't like is a panacea that they are trying to cover up.

Did you finished the entire movie?

Peer review is great, so long as your peers aren't shills for the state. You have the vast majority of doctors who are essentially bought and paid for by the AMA, so seeking their review doesn't mean shit to me.



Yes I finished the entire movie, and I believe that there is a medical industrial complex just like I believe there is a military industrial complex.

Just because the system is broken doesn't mean that science doesn't work.

Did the movie at any point in time say that science doesn't work? I'm failing to see anywhere in this thread where I said that science doesn't work. Why would you mention that?

That movie consisted of alot of apeal to emotion alot of anecedotes and alot of blaming the FDA for desiring that procedures be followed. I find it very interesting that people haven't been able to replicate the result the doctor is claiming. We could replace this doctor fellow with Tesla, or the cold fusion cats and it would be the same thing. Except not as emotionally charged.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
MAM
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« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2013, 07:02:15 PM »

Don't mistake my desire for research to be a defence of the FDA or the corporations. Personally I don't dig on alot of Western Medicine because it hasn't existed long enough and been tested enough to suit my tastes.

And I'm not even saying that this guy should be prevented from practising medicine. What I am saying is that I don't believe that he has a magic cure all for cancer. For a number of reasons that I could iterate if you desire.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
Seth King
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« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2013, 07:08:44 PM »


I still want you to answer the question above, but I have to say this sort of response really incenses me.

I don't understand how anarchists can see just how corrupt state schools, law, roads etc. are, but think that state medicine is somehow exempt from corruption, and anything that doesn't suck up to corporate medicine is somehow unscientific.

It's the same baseless attack that Global Warming alarmists use to smear skeptics. It's also really pathetic.
 

Why do you equate state medicine with science? There's a lot of corruption obviously in FDA and similar institutions, and in scientific circles too, but that doesn't change the importance of the scientific method. Not everything in the world is a conspiracy and not everything is suppressed by the state. Where are the publications, where is the data?

My problem is not with skepticism, on the contrary, with the LACK OF skepticism when it comes to alternative medicine, and jumping on any alternative bandwagon just because it goes against corporate medicine.

I'm all about the scientific method. I studied Physics at one of the top ten schools in the nation. And I can tell you from experience that a lot of scientists don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and are trapped in a very statist paradigm. You think somebody who buys into the myths of the state is going to be a good scientist? I'd say it's very unlikely! Most scientists aren't worth their weight in sand. I know that may come as a great disappointment to you.

Replace statist with Christian, or Muslim, and we have a very interesting argument wouldn't you say?

There aren't very many good scientists. A lot of people have this attitude that unless you get a stipend from the state that you can't have pure research. It's a load of shit!

The best scientists are the ones who want to learn the truth. That's it! People who just want to discover the ways of the universe. Usually they are trying to make the world a better place by providing real value, and discovery gets in the way.

Lots of times people stumble upon something that works. At first they may not understand how or why it works, but they keep doing it because it works, and eventually they discover why it works.

That's pretty much been medicine for a long time. They discover something that works, they keep doing it, only later to understand WHY it works.

Medicine usually goes a little something like this:

"Hey, if you rub that bush on your rash it will make it feel better."

"Oh, why is that?"

"I don't know yet, but it works for me."

Years later the chemists find what's in the bush and discover why it works.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's voodoo science. It just means we haven't learned the reasoning for something yet.

If you have a doctor that is having great success you don't tell him he's a quack unless you can do better. Period. You get the fuck out of his way and let the market decide.

It's like Rearden Metal. The state and all of the crony scientists saying it's not safe because it hasn't been tested. As if they would have a fucking clue how to better test it!!!
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« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2013, 07:21:52 PM »


I'm all about the scientific method. I studied Physics at one of the top ten schools in the nation. And I can tell you from experience that a lot of scientists don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and are trapped in a very statist paradigm. You think somebody who buys into the myths of the state is going to be a good scientist? I'd say it's very unlikely! Most scientists aren't worth their weight in sand. I know that may come as a great disappointment to you.

Strawman after strawman dude, you can do better than that.
I don't know why you keep talking about the state.

Burzynski has been around for 30+ years, and he hasn't provided real evidence for his thing. Yet you support him. Why? How can you say that you're all about the scientific method?
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Seth King
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« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2013, 07:24:13 PM »


I'm all about the scientific method. I studied Physics at one of the top ten schools in the nation. And I can tell you from experience that a lot of scientists don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and are trapped in a very statist paradigm. You think somebody who buys into the myths of the state is going to be a good scientist? I'd say it's very unlikely! Most scientists aren't worth their weight in sand. I know that may come as a great disappointment to you.

Strawman after strawman dude, you can do better than that.
I don't know why you keep talking about the state.

Burzynski has been around for 30+ years, and he hasn't provided real evidence for his thing. Yet you support him. Why? How can you say that you're all about the scientific method?

So, people being healed isn't real evidence enough for you?
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