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Author Topic: Stefan Molyneux has cancer  (Read 64240 times)
Seth King
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« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2013, 01:37:21 AM »

You still haven't answered my question. Where are you getting the information that Dr. Burzynski hasn't published his research or data?
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MAM
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« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2013, 05:18:25 AM »

You still haven't answered my question. Where are you getting the information that Dr. Burzynski hasn't published his research or data?


I don't consider self publish to be evidence.

While technically Burzynski has published postive results the publishings are in house and so I don't consider them evidence.

According to the American Cancer Society:
Quote
While many articles have been published and dozens of clinical trials against many types of cancer have been ongoing at Dr. Burzynski's clinic for several years, there have not been any results of randomized controlled trials—the type of study that is required to prove that a new anti-cancer drug works – published in peer-reviewed medical journals.
and
Quote
The OTA report criticized Burzynski's research process and noted that his definitions of advanced cancer and of complete and partial cancer remission were not used in accordance with generally accepted definitions. One example they pointed to was a patient said to have had a complete remission after treatment with antineoplastons. The report concluded that this claim was inappropriate because the cancer had been removed by surgery before the antineoplaston treatment was started

Also:
Quote
In 1982, consultants to the Ontario (Canada) Ministry of Health visited Burzynski's clinic and reviewed records of twelve patients selected by Burzynski from among the thousands he had treated. According to the OTA report, the Canadian doctors "found no examples of objective response to Antineoplastons." In 1985, the Canadian Bureau of Prescription Drugs examined the records of Canadian doctors who had treated patients at Dr. Burzynski's clinic in Houston. Of 36 patients, 32 had died without showing signs of improvement. Of the remaining 4, 1 patient died after slight improvement, while 1 patient died after stabilizing for a year. The 2 remaining patients had widespread cancer.

According to: Phase II Study of Antineoplastons A10 (NSC 648539) and AS2-1 (NSC 620261) in Patients With Recurrent Glioma

Quote
Nine patients were treated, in six of whom the treatment response was assessable in accordance with protocol stipulations. No patient demonstrated tumor regression. Reversible grade 2 or 3 neurocortical toxicity, consisting of transient somnolence, confusion, and exacerbation of an underlying seizure disorder, was noted in five patients.
and
Quote
Conclusion

Although we could not confirm any tumor regression in patients in this study, the small sample size precludes definitive conclusions about treatment efficacy. Antineoplaston-related toxicity was acceptable in most patients with appropriate dose modification, although severe neurocortical toxicity may occur. Steady-state plasma concentrations of phenylacetate with use of A10 and AS2-1 were similar to those reported with use of similar doses of phenylacetate alone.


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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2013, 12:31:16 PM »

What I disagree with is typecasting all alternative medicine into the voodoo camp.
Could you illustrate with some python code?
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« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2013, 12:46:01 PM »

My take on this whole thread (which has nothing to do with Stef):
When I hear alternative medicine, like MAM, I do think of people putting snails on their faces.
Seth's rebuttal is legit, that it's my own problem. But it's based on experience. I can list dozens of bullshit alternative medicine hoaxes, and I can think of less than a handful of useful non-bogus contributions... Of course, that doesn't prove that it's all wrong. But it gives me reason to pause and ask for hard, peer-reviewed, repeatable studies.
Anyone who claims to have cured cancer is almost certainly a con artist. Regardless of the influence that powerful organizations have on research and treatment, if someone had the cure, and their results were published, someone would have reproduced the results. SOMEONE else. No video is a substitute for that.


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"I like to eat. Instead of a monarch I propose we have a Chef be final arbiter in matters. We'll call it anarcho-chefism."
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Seth King
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« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2013, 01:34:42 PM »

MAM,

#1 can you give me the link where you found those quotes?

#2 you really think the ACS is an unbiased source? That's like asking the U.N. to determine whether or not guns are a legitimate tool for self-protection.
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« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2013, 03:47:16 PM »

MAM,

#1 can you give me the link where you found those quotes?

#2 you really think the ACS is an unbiased source? That's like asking the U.N. to determine whether or not guns are a legitimate tool for self-protection.

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/complementaryandalternativemedicine/pharmacologicalandbiologicaltreatment/antineoplaston-therapy

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025619611638354

I knew you were going to ask if I thought that the ACS is an unbiased source, while they may not be unbiased I'm not really looking for their opinion I'm looking for peer reviewed studies, I think the ACS can be trusted to say whether or not there are peer reviewed papers out there.

Also through my research into this matter I found an article claiming that this guy's antineoplaston treatment was actually a known form of chemotherapy and that it had known side affects I'll see if I can find it again.
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Seth King
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« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2013, 05:53:30 PM »

Those articles didn't really say a whole lot.

It's funny though, how they'll describe the side effects of his treatment "range from mild to serious, including fatigue (extreme tiredness), anemia (low red blood cell counts), headaches, numbness, skin rash, swelling of the hands and face, chills, fever, dizziness, changes in blood pressure, unpleasant body odor during treatment, and sleepiness."

You ought to read the side effects of chemotherapy.

Also, you should do some research on the success rate of chemotherapy and radiation therapy. Hint, it's pretty fucking low.
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Seth King
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« Reply #67 on: May 04, 2013, 05:54:38 PM »

In other words, the "medical" community loves to hold extremely high standards for people who practice medicine in ways they are threatened by. But they don't even come close to living up to their own standards. Typical statists.
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« Reply #68 on: May 04, 2013, 08:07:44 PM »

Those articles didn't really say a whole lot.

It's funny though, how they'll describe the side effects of his treatment "range from mild to serious, including fatigue (extreme tiredness), anemia (low red blood cell counts), headaches, numbness, skin rash, swelling of the hands and face, chills, fever, dizziness, changes in blood pressure, unpleasant body odor during treatment, and sleepiness."

You ought to read the side effects of chemotherapy.

Also, you should do some research on the success rate of chemotherapy and radiation therapy. Hint, it's pretty fucking low.

I'm aware of the side effects of chemo therapy I've witnessed them first hand. If you read the labels on any medication it has similar disclaimers.

They don't hold different standards for their medicine than for "alternative" medicine again the only difference is one has mountains of peer reviewed evidence and the other doesn't.

Do you have an argument any argument at all other than their Statists so their obviously lieing, which is a collectivist notion and highly disappointing to see coming from a supposed individualist.
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"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

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Seth King
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« Reply #69 on: May 04, 2013, 10:57:33 PM »

I'm not even saying they're lying. I'm just telling you their paradigm is not that of truth. The medical industrial complex is just as perverted as the military industrial complex. Are the people in the military industrial complex lying? No, their paradigm is just horribly statist and not good for the average person.
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« Reply #70 on: May 04, 2013, 11:33:51 PM »

I'm not even saying they're lying. I'm just telling you their paradigm is not that of truth. The medical industrial complex is just as perverted as the military industrial complex. Are the people in the military industrial complex lying? No, their paradigm is just horribly statist and not good for the average person.

I can agree to that.

Any time coercion enters the equation you are guaranteed that the result is going to be sub par.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

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Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2013, 02:51:48 PM »

Our family doctor when I was a child was an MD and Osteopath but used an assortment of alternate techniques to diagnose and treat his patients. After years of being in business a bunch of armed AMA thugs appeared and stole all of his equipment. He went through a long trial and was lucky to stay out of a cage but it cost him a fortune to defend himself and the equipment they stole was never returned.

The AMA and FDA exist to protect the interests of the medical/pharmaceutical industrial complex and if you dare stick your neck out and do or say anything outside the status quo then you will be severely reprimanded and threatened, or far worse...and that includes publishing "peer reviews" for alternate therapies...and especially for therapies that can't be patented. My point here is that I still find it astonishing to encounter those who rail against the evils of statism and just really seem to "get it", yet still embrace one of the states most powerful pillars of domination and control because "the science is irrefutable" - as if these creeps have a shred of integrity when it comes to science.
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MAM
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« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2013, 03:39:46 PM »

Our family doctor when I was a child was an MD and Osteopath but used an assortment of alternate techniques to diagnose and treat his patients. After years of being in business a bunch of armed AMA thugs appeared and stole all of his equipment. He went through a long trial and was lucky to stay out of a cage but it cost him a fortune to defend himself and the equipment they stole was never returned.

The AMA and FDA exist to protect the interests of the medical/pharmaceutical industrial complex and if you dare stick your neck out and do or say anything outside the status quo then you will be severely reprimanded and threatened, or far worse...and that includes publishing "peer reviews" for alternate therapies...and especially for therapies that can't be patented. My point here is that I still find it astonishing to encounter those who rail against the evils of statism and just really seem to "get it", yet still embrace one of the states most powerful pillars of domination and control because "the science is irrefutable" - as if these creeps have a shred of integrity when it comes to science.

Do you really think that >90% of d by doctors and scientists and are in on some conspiracy? I find the idea ridiculous.

I'm not arguing for the FDA or the AMA or whatever I'm arguing for evidence. The FDA is fucking evil that doesn't make evidence a bad idea.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
Seth King
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« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2013, 03:56:20 PM »

Our family doctor when I was a child was an MD and Osteopath but used an assortment of alternate techniques to diagnose and treat his patients. After years of being in business a bunch of armed AMA thugs appeared and stole all of his equipment. He went through a long trial and was lucky to stay out of a cage but it cost him a fortune to defend himself and the equipment they stole was never returned.

The AMA and FDA exist to protect the interests of the medical/pharmaceutical industrial complex and if you dare stick your neck out and do or say anything outside the status quo then you will be severely reprimanded and threatened, or far worse...and that includes publishing "peer reviews" for alternate therapies...and especially for therapies that can't be patented. My point here is that I still find it astonishing to encounter those who rail against the evils of statism and just really seem to "get it", yet still embrace one of the states most powerful pillars of domination and control because "the science is irrefutable" - as if these creeps have a shred of integrity when it comes to science.

Do you really think that >90% of d by doctors and scientists and are in on some conspiracy? I find the idea ridiculous.

I'm not arguing for the FDA or the AMA or whatever I'm arguing for evidence. The FDA is fucking evil that doesn't make evidence a bad idea.

You're not getting it. The state destroys evidence and puts a chilling effect on those who would publish scientific evidence that threatens the corporate/state hegemony.

This is really an easy one, MAM, I don't know why you're struggling so much.
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Seth King
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« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2013, 04:04:39 PM »

Imagine going back in time a few hundred years when everybody thought the world was flat.

And then some guy comes along and says "look everybody! I've got evidence that the world is round and not the center of the universe!"

And then the church throws that guy in prison and makes him retract his former statements and proclaim that there is no evidence that the world is round.

And then people like you, MAM, parroting the church's line, "I don't see any evidence that the world is round."

Are all of the doctors a part of some conspiracy? Come on! They're just a bunch of dupes who joined the guild.

It's all about using the state to protect the guild and squash competition. Very few people, including many libertarians, apparently, see it for what it really is.
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