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Author Topic: Stefan Molyneux has cancer  (Read 60040 times)
Seth King
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« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2013, 07:26:08 PM »

And besides, you started off by ragging on people for recommending Molyneux look into alternative "medicine."

You basically derided anything that isn't state sanctioned, corporate approved.

I think a person is nuts if they DON'T look for alternatives to state medicine.
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MAM
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« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2013, 07:33:46 PM »

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There aren't very many good scientists. A lot of people have this attitude that unless you get a stipend from the state that you can't have pure research. It's a load of shit!
When I was in college, I wrote a paper where i pointed out that state sponsored research wasn't pure research, and in fact the State would desire weapons research over other things because that's what the State wants. Then I read Atlas Shrugged.

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The best scientists are the ones who want to learn the truth. That's it! People who just want to discover the ways of the universe. Usually they are trying to make the world a better place by providing real value, and discovery gets in the way.
In this regard I'm a Kopimist.

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That's pretty much been medicine for a long time. They discover something that works, they keep doing it, only later to understand WHY it works.
I'm not asking for why it works, I'm asking for non anecdotal evidence that it works.

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Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's voodoo science. It just means we haven't learned the reasoning for something yet.
Just because you don't understand how something could work, doesn't mean that it does. Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I think it's voodoo science. People have heard me call cars magic. I don't literally think it's magic but I don't know how or why it works. Electricity is the same way, I don't understand how electricity works, and I don't think it's voodoo science either. Because there's been alot of peer reviewed non anecdotal evidence put out there. There is alot of tech that supports it. There have been experiments and they've been published.

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If you have a doctor that is having great success you don't tell him he's a quack unless you can do better. Period. You get the fuck out of his way and let the market decide.
The question is, is he having success? Lots of appeal to emotion and anecdotes going on, yet his claims are not substantiated and in 30 years he hasn't bothered to publish the results of his own studies... While lack of evidence isn't evidence of absence it sure is suggestive of it. I'm all for letting the market decide, I'm also for science.

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It's like Rearden Metal. The state and all of the crony scientists saying it's not safe because it hasn't been tested. As if they would have a fucking clue how to better test it!!!
Just because it hasn't been tested doesn't mean it's not safe. But that also doesn't mean that it IS safe.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

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Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
MAM
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« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2013, 07:38:22 PM »

And besides, you started off by ragging on people for recommending Molyneux look into alternative "medicine."

You basically derided anything that isn't state sanctioned, corporate approved.

I think a person is nuts if they DON'T look for alternatives to state medicine.

I wasn't enraged. However in my experience "alternative medicine" is code for bullshit. While I might not like Molyneux even a little bit, I don't want him to die, as he happens to be one of the few people I don't like that isn't a Statist piece of shit.

I derided anything that wasn't scientifically tested, there is alot of overlap though, that doesn't mean I support the State.

I think a person is nuts if they believe everything they hear on the basis of it NOT being backed by the State, and not by the merit of the evidence they are presented with.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
Seth King
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« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2013, 07:40:29 PM »

There's a reason why there is an appeal to emotion. The documentary wouldn't appeal to anybody if it was heavily scientific and only 5 people could understand it.

It was meant to show the world that IT'S WRONG for the government to fuck somebody over like the FDA did. That's it.
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Seth King
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« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2013, 07:41:45 PM »

And besides, you started off by ragging on people for recommending Molyneux look into alternative "medicine."

You basically derided anything that isn't state sanctioned, corporate approved.

I think a person is nuts if they DON'T look for alternatives to state medicine.

I wasn't enraged. However in my experience "alternative medicine" is code for bullshit. While I might not like Molyneux even a little bit, I don't want him to die, as he happens to be one of the few people I don't like that isn't a Statist piece of shit.

I derided anything that wasn't scientifically tested, there is alot of overlap though, that doesn't mean I support the State.

I think a person is nuts if they believe everything they hear on the basis of it NOT being backed by the State, and not by the merit of the evidence they are presented with.

I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about janos. But you also poked fun of alternative medicine, which I think is extremely narrow minded.
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MAM
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« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2013, 07:53:20 PM »

And besides, you started off by ragging on people for recommending Molyneux look into alternative "medicine."

You basically derided anything that isn't state sanctioned, corporate approved.

I think a person is nuts if they DON'T look for alternatives to state medicine.

I wasn't enraged. However in my experience "alternative medicine" is code for bullshit. While I might not like Molyneux even a little bit, I don't want him to die, as he happens to be one of the few people I don't like that isn't a Statist piece of shit.

I derided anything that wasn't scientifically tested, there is alot of overlap though, that doesn't mean I support the State.

I think a person is nuts if they believe everything they hear on the basis of it NOT being backed by the State, and not by the merit of the evidence they are presented with.

I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about janos. But you also poked fun of alternative medicine, which I think is extremely narrow minded.

There are people who literally claim that magic crystals and tuning forks have medicinal value. They also claim that Dolphins cure cancer... Are seriously going to say that it's narrow minded of me to call that bullshit, and make fun of it?
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
MAM
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« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2013, 07:57:14 PM »

What irks me the most about this is the idea that rational medicine is part of a conspiracy...

Which is tied into the whole "Western Medicine just wants to keep you sick man! Because of the profit motive man!" attitude.

All of which is quite frankly bullshit, and not worthy of respect.

It's all part of the same fallacy that companies have an incentive to produce crappy products, I swear it reminds me of the broken window fallacy.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2013, 08:03:56 PM »


I'm all about the scientific method. I studied Physics at one of the top ten schools in the nation. And I can tell you from experience that a lot of scientists don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and are trapped in a very statist paradigm. You think somebody who buys into the myths of the state is going to be a good scientist? I'd say it's very unlikely! Most scientists aren't worth their weight in sand. I know that may come as a great disappointment to you.

Strawman after strawman dude, you can do better than that.
I don't know why you keep talking about the state.

Burzynski has been around for 30+ years, and he hasn't provided real evidence for his thing. Yet you support him. Why? How can you say that you're all about the scientific method?

So, people being healed isn't real evidence enough for you?

"Healed" yes, getting better, no.

Next time you get the cold, dance for 11 minutes every day. A few days later you'll get better. Did the dancing heal you? No. Did you get better? Yes. Is that proof of dancing curing common cold? No. It happens relatively rarely with a deadly cancer, but it happens. Dead people don't tell stories. And scammers capitalize on that.
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janos
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« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2013, 08:11:37 PM »

And besides, you started off by ragging on people for recommending Molyneux look into alternative "medicine."

You basically derided anything that isn't state sanctioned, corporate approved.

I think a person is nuts if they DON'T look for alternatives to state medicine.

By alternative I didn't mean "isn't state sanctioned", but "not approved by the scientific consensus". Yes I know, the latter is not always right either, that's why I usually look at the data too.
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MAM
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« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2013, 08:34:20 PM »

There's a reason why there is an appeal to emotion. The documentary wouldn't appeal to anybody if it was heavily scientific and only 5 people could understand it.

It was meant to show the world that IT'S WRONG for the government to fuck somebody over like the FDA did. That's it.

The FDA fucking people over is wrong. That doesn't mean that the guy who got fucked is right, and not scamming people.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
MAM
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« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2013, 08:36:57 PM »

There's a reason why there is an appeal to emotion. The documentary wouldn't appeal to anybody if it was heavily scientific and only 5 people could understand it.

It was meant to show the world that IT'S WRONG for the government to fuck somebody over like the FDA did. That's it.

The FDA fucking people over is wrong. That doesn't mean that the guy who got fucked is right, and not scamming people.

Containing actual evidence not appeals to emotion, and being above people's heads are not the same thing. Is an argument only valid if it contains an ad hominem? The presence of logical fallacies only weakens a case it doesn't strengthen it.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
Seth King
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« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2013, 08:38:59 PM »

When people say "alternative medicine" they aren't talking about "medicine not based on science" or "medicine not based on reason."

To jump to that conclusion is like saying I want alternative law and you immediately jumping to the conclusion that I want "law of the jungle" or "Sharia law."

That's your hangup, not mine. It's not my fault you don't have any imagination other than state propaganda.
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Seth King
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« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2013, 08:51:43 PM »

Me: "I'm interested in alternatives to state/corporate fascist medicine."

You: "You want unscientific and illogical medicine!!!"

Me:  Huh
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MAM
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« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2013, 09:49:27 PM »

Me: "I'm interested in alternatives to state/corporate fascist medicine."

You: "You want unscientific and illogical medicine!!!"

Me:  Huh

If alternative medicine worked it would be called.... wait for it..... medicine.

If alternative science worked it would be called.... wait for it.... science.

All I'm asking is for is the findings of his trails published in a scientific journal. That's all, but to you the only thing that it has going for it is the appeal to emotion, and the fact that the State doesn't like it and it's enough.

The main argument that you seem to be making is that the State doesn't like it so it must be legitimate. Am I wrong? I hope so...

Well the State doesn't like murderers (unless they work for the state) I suppose to you that's an argument for non state sanctioned murderers.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 10:08:22 PM by MAM » Logged

"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
MAM
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« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2013, 09:59:14 PM »

Do you also believe in the perpetual motion machine? And Tesla's "free" energy for the world? And that the State shut it down?
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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