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Author Topic: Ancom vs Ancap  (Read 34821 times)
MAM
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2013, 08:44:38 PM »

You don't listen to Rush oooorgle?

You're missing out man. Granted they aren't anarchists but they have alot of liberty oriented songs.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
oooorgle
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2013, 10:15:10 PM »

You don't listen to Rush oooorgle?

So when I think of Rush, I also think of Air Supply, I don't know why, and when I think of Air Supply it brings up one specific memory.

I heard rush on the radio but I never gave attention to music and certainly not lyrics back then, I was reared very Mormon... You know, that alternate reality where "Air Supply" is devil music, and "Hee-Haw" is a spankin-good time. I remember dear Daddy breaking older brothers Air Supply Vinyl and ranting blah blah satani-lyrical-blasphemorous insanity, then making us all watch a Billy Joel concert while attempting to explain how the lyrics break up families. Typical Family-Home-Evening at our Mo-house.

Too,

Ever heard of "Pinocchio's Arm"? I DO NOT recommend it as a tool to determine if your children are lying to you. You will fuck them up. One of a few bizarre rituals practiced at our 'loving' home...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 10:20:19 PM by oooorgle » Logged
MAM
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2013, 10:27:51 PM »

No I've never heard of that. What is it?
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
oooorgle
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2013, 10:37:26 PM »

No I've never heard of that. What is it?

For us, it was what determined if we got our ass kicked or not. You learn to have a fucking strong-ass arm when being questioned. But then, people in this town beat their kids to death with spatulas. Our mother used big wooden spoons, which usually broke. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuwytCGo_KY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuwytCGo_KY</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRRDh1CS-4o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRRDh1CS-4o</a>

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loveablenerd
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 01:13:26 PM »

There is another difference... AnCaps believe that a person's value is utilitarian based on what they can contribute, while AnComs believe it is innate and everyone has value simply because they are human, and we all bleed the same color.

Thus AnCaps have no problem with private tyrannies (work places) because of the theory that if conditions are too bad the workers can go somewhere else... but they must earn their inalienable right to life and liberty by the sweat of their brow. However, competition is irrelevant here because conditions will be the same everywhere... workers will get the minimum pay and the maximum productivity expectations that the market will bear. No one *chooses* to work in a sweatshop! They do it out of necessity. The coercion is not direct, but it is intrinsic to the system.

You can guess which direction I lean, but I don't say AnCaps aren't true anarchists. I would take one any day over a Republicrat.

I would personally advocate a hybrid solution, which should satisfy both schools and also shore up each other's systemic weaknesses in order to advocate a hopefully bulletproof system, using the software market as model. Free/Open Source software is developed completely voluntarily by devoted communities, without coercion (systemic or direct) or expectation of profit, and made freely available for everyone on the planet to download and use for no cost. We are talking about some of the most solid software out there that provides 95% of the backbone of the internet. Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP to name a few. No one can seriously claim it isn't the best of the best. However, it has not crashed the commercial software market and in fact bolsters it by providing more choices AND forcing commercial companies to stay on top of their game and not only out compete other vendors but also give people a reason to spend money for something they could get for free. And some open source products even have dual licensing models, where you can get the "community version" for free but can also buy a commercial license for value added extras such as additional functionality and professional support.

I could easily see this model extended into the offline world where all of the basic goods and services needed to support human life on this planet to a reasonably comfortable degree could be provided freely by a community option, yet entrepreneurs would still be allowed to compete and sell value added extras that many people would want above and beyond basic living.

For example, a community project may exist that can provide a reasonably comfortable and safe home for you and your family for free (or participation in the mutual support program), but if you want a 30-room McMansion you are going to have to work for it just like you would in this society.

What say you guys? Can we build a united anarchist front and take on our common enemy preventing this from happening (our ever-loving state)?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 01:20:45 PM by loveablenerd » Logged
MAM
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 02:05:48 PM »

>"You can guess which direction I lean, but I don't say AnCaps aren't true anarchists. I would take one any day over a Republicrat."

That's because they aren't. Anti-State is good though.

Modify, there is a clearly understood idea of anarchy which includes abolishment of hierarchies that AnCaps are cool with. Which is to say that if by anarchist you mean anti-State, then AnCaps are anarchists but if you mean anti-hierarchy (the traditional and historical meaning) then AnCaps aren't anarchists.

At the end of the day though the State is the bully of the block and common cause could be found in that area. Depending on the individual of course.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 11:35:34 PM by MAM » Logged

"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2014, 12:56:44 AM »

You cannot enforce some zany idea of equality without have some centralized group overseeing its existence.

Tyranny Requires Equality
http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/tyranny-requires-equality/

I follow RB's  (clint r) site, In fact, I am one one of the 3 commenters on that article.  He is an excellent researcher and writer. It's too bad his pride (or maybe something else) precludes him from accepting the help of others who possess skills (public speaking/oratory) he lacks. Oh well, he gained a couple hundred followers over the past 6 months. That's a lot, right? Another year and he will be up to 2k, at least he did it on his own terms...

As for Ancap, I prefer the term "free market anarchist" over anarchist capitalist. Too bad FMA isn't as catchy as ancap.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 01:00:55 AM by not you » Logged
MAM
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2014, 01:10:53 AM »

You cannot enforce some zany idea of equality without have some centralized group overseeing its existence.

Tyranny Requires Equality
http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/tyranny-requires-equality/

I follow RB's  (clint r) site, In fact, I am one one of the 3 commenters on that article.  He is an excellent researcher and writer. It's too bad his pride (or maybe something else) precludes him from accepting the help of others who possess skills (public speaking/oratory) he lacks. Oh well, he gained a couple hundred followers over the past 6 months. That's a lot, right? Another year and he will be up to 2k, at least he did it on his own terms...

As for Ancap, I prefer the term "free market anarchist" over anarchist capitalist. Too bad FMA isn't as catchy as ancap.

I like market anarchist,
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2014, 01:22:23 AM »

the word 'capitalist' has been bastardized, which is why i don't like it. it has been redefined into a hybrid of a political/economic ideology.

Is there a reason you would drop the word "free" from Free Market Anarchist?

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MAM
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2014, 02:21:32 AM »

the word 'capitalist' has been bastardized, which is why i don't like it. it has been redefined into a hybrid of a political/economic ideology.

Is there a reason you would drop the word "free" from Free Market Anarchist?



Because Free Markets are ideals that cannot be achieved. Capitalism is used differently in critical theory than it's used in de ontology. Neither's "right" but I prefer the definition used in critical theory (private ownership of the means of production) because it's more specific.

Which means there are things that AnCaps will call capitalism that I won't, For example capital is goods of the first order in my critical self theory. But of course it's all my subjective preference.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2014, 10:36:29 AM »

good thanks.

I innately agree.
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