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Question: How many people do you think it would take to engage in a successful Ancap enclave project?
2-100 - 2 (28.6%)
100-500 - 0 (0%)
500-1,000 - 0 (0%)
1,000-5,000 - 1 (14.3%)
5,000-10,000 - 0 (0%)
10,000-50,000 - 2 (28.6%)
50k plus - 1 (14.3%)
Can't happen - 0 (0%)
The Balls are Inert - 1 (14.3%)
Total Voters: 7

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Author Topic: Enclave/Group preferences  (Read 17967 times)
MAM
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« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2013, 12:02:57 PM »



All I got's is time, how can I help?

Well at this point, wait. I suppose you can join the forum at http://www.ancapfreethinker.info/Community (its not  really active), where more will be announced later, although my purpose on this forum (daily anarchist) is not really to recruit anyone or advertise, but to engage in philosophical discussion about ancap topics.

All right man. Good luck!
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MAM
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« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2013, 07:11:31 PM »

This is never going to work. Please tell me why I'm wrong.

I think this is way to ambitious, it would require way more man power then I think is available. Instead maybe we should see about making a fleet of sailfarms.

Let say that all you need is 50 people to get this done. I think you'd be hard pressed to find 20 or even 10 people. With the sailfarm idea you'd only need a one man crew to have a boat. So you could build the fleet slowly rather than trying to recruit people en masse.

You know I'd be pleasantly surprised if you could find 5 people to actually get together and do this. Me and you acft that's two, to surprise me all you have to do is find three more people. Can it be done? Good luck man.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 08:31:58 PM by MAM » Logged

"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
janos
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« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2013, 12:10:24 AM »

Hey guys (first post, yay!)

I've enjoyed reading about the island idea, but I think first of all we need to establish an IRL/offline community.
Anywhere, really, just get together, and do some daily brainstorming and see what happens.

I'm willing to go anywhere and do pretty much anything if the company is good enough. I'm sick of all the statist fuckers around me. Wink I'm from Europe, but I lived in Thailand for a year, so I know what it's like to live in a completely different country as an expat. If you're alone, it can get insanely hard, but if you have a few friends with you, it's the easiest thing in the world.

So where to go? I prefer avoiding the US, for obvious reasons, but if the only way to be around anarchists is to move to New Hampshire, then so be it. There are worse places to live. Smiley But the visa situation is pretty gruesome, even if I can get a long term visa of some kind, the sad truth is that the fascists can deport me on any day for any BS reason, or just deny my next entrance etc.

South America seems like a valid option, especially Chile. Any thoughts on that? You guys know anything about Jeff Berwick's project there?
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MAM
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« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2013, 12:39:14 AM »

Who cares about getting a visa? Is English your first language? Is it good enough that you can function in this country? If it is you can get a job with or start a business Agoristically.

As far as South America goes before going there I'd think that you'd want to have your people trained and armed. I know Peru and Columbia have huge problems with armies of private thugs (as opposed to gubberment goons).

The Communists in those countries are known to kid nap and kill people. So yeah I know I'd be able to shoot back, would anyone else though? I wouldn't really want to go there if I didn't think those I went with were competent to defend themselves, who knows my life might be in their hands at some point. Just saying....

At least in the States if you're smart you can avoid most of the thugs, and handle those that come after you anyway.

Anyway welcome to the forum.

Peace be with you. 
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2013, 12:59:43 AM »

Who cares about getting a visa? Is English your first language? Is it good enough that you can function in this country? If it is you can get a job with or start a business Agoristically.

As far as South America goes before going there I'd think that you'd want to have your people trained and armed. I know Peru and Columbia have huge problems with armies of private thugs (as opposed to gubberment goons).

The Communists in those countries are known to kid nap and kill people. So yeah I know I'd be able to shoot back, would anyone else though? I wouldn't really want to go there if I didn't think those I went with were competent to defend themselves, who knows my life might be in their hands at some point. Just saying....

At least in the States if you're smart you can avoid most of the thugs, and handle those that come after you anyway.

Anyway welcome to the forum.

Peace be with you. 

English is not my first language, but I'm fluent. So yeah, I could manage to get around, that's not a problem. I just don't want to live there if I can help it. But as I said, if that's the only way, so be it.

South America has a bad rep for sure, but it's changed a lot in the last couple of decades. Especially Chile I think is pretty safe, honestly I'd feel safer there than in the US (not to mention what happens if USD collapses), and I can always bribe myself out of most things. I love corrupt governments! Smiley

Anyways I don't think safety is a big issue, if you choose the location wisely and don't do anything stupid.

Speaking of Chile, according to this site it has the 7th freest economy in the world (US is 10th):

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

So good things are going on on that farm, relatively of course.

Other than that, I think it's really useful to travel around, and see the different flavors of statism and other superstitions. Wink It's also fun.
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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2013, 08:23:19 AM »

I think I brought this up earlier, but I don't think Chileans are particularly keen on libertarians of any brand after Friedman and Pinochet shoved free market policies down their collective throats.

Not that the policies were bad, but they continue to associate the free market with tyrants like Pinochet.
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« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2013, 10:49:46 PM »

I think I brought this up earlier, but I don't think Chileans are particularly keen on libertarians of any brand after Friedman and Pinochet shoved free market policies down their collective throats.

Not that the policies were bad, but they continue to associate the free market with tyrants like Pinochet.

What's your source for this, you're just speculating? In any case, ppl everywhere love their rulers and hate the free market, even in New Hampshire.
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MAM
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« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2013, 10:50:54 PM »

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What's your source for this, you're just speculating? In any case, ppl everywhere love their rulers and hate the free market, even in New Hampshire.

That is why I call them Team Ostrich.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2013, 07:55:10 AM »

Hey guys (first post, yay!)

I've enjoyed reading about the island idea, but I think first of all we need to establish an IRL/offline community.
Anywhere, really, just get together, and do some daily brainstorming and see what happens.

Welcome! 

The closest to that currently is the Free State Project.  It is inside the federal turf of the USA, for better or worse. 


At least in the States if you're smart you can avoid most of the thugs, and handle those that come after you anyway.

People travel all the time.  You hear the horror story as such because it is so rare to occur against foreigners.  People like tourist money, even if they take issue with their country of origin.  The same stuff happens in the USA, but because it is so common it only makes the local news.  The thugs in the USA tend to have better resources of any other common thug in the world.  If you mess with organized crime in any country, that is a whole different mess.


Speaking of Chile, according to this site it has the 7th freest economy in the world (US is 10th):

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Unfortunately I wouldn't put much stock in rankings like that.  They overlook the most major benefits to a free market, such as a free currency. 


Instead maybe we should see about making a fleet of sailfarms.

Me and you acft that's two, to surprise me all you have to do is find three more people. Can it be done? Good luck man.

I am curious what benefit there is to a mere 5 person group.  You know I would meet up though.
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MAM
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« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2013, 01:26:37 PM »

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I am curious what benefit there is to a mere 5 person group.  You know I would meet up though.

The point isn't that there would be a huge benefit to a five person group. The point is that I seriously doubt that five people can be found to get this done, and you're going to need alot more than that to accomplish anything.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2013, 08:26:25 PM »


Welcome! 

The closest to that currently is the Free State Project.  It is inside the federal turf of the USA, for better or worse. 


Thanks. The concept of a "Free State" is an oxymoron to me, you can't have a state and be free at the same time, but I applaud the effort of those guys. Also, the climate sucks there. Smiley


Unfortunately I wouldn't put much stock in rankings like that.  They overlook the most major benefits to a free market, such as a free currency. 


Well, you can find useful facts on that site too, not just rankings. Tax rates and such. Every country has a monopoly on money, so I don't know why you mentioned that.


I am curious what benefit there is to a mere 5 person group.  You know I would meet up though.


I can't see the benefit either, or to the island concept in general. Yeah it would be nice to make it work, but you also give up a lot of "practical" freedom that way, and you don't prove anything anyway with a small group, even with a couple of hundred ppl. We already have Hong Kong, Singapore and other countries as examples for what happens when you have more economic freedom, but ppl just don't give a shit or they want their goodies.
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Syock
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« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2013, 06:07:56 PM »


Welcome!  

The closest to that currently is the Free State Project.  It is inside the federal turf of the USA, for better or worse.  


Thanks. The concept of a "Free State" is an oxymoron to me, you can't have a state and be free at the same time, but I applaud the effort of those guys. Also, the climate sucks there. Smiley

Name and climate prerequisites were not part of your initial post.  Tongue


Unfortunately I wouldn't put much stock in rankings like that.  They overlook the most major benefits to a free market, such as a free currency.  


Well, you can find useful facts on that site too, not just rankings. Tax rates and such. Every country has a monopoly on money, so I don't know why you mentioned that.

Some places have a variety of currencies in common use, some even use gold as a common currency, or currencies tied to something else.  The US gov does not have a monopoly on its own currency.  It is created by a semi-third party that can and does inflate the currency without the governments knowledge.  


I am curious what benefit there is to a mere 5 person group.  You know I would meet up though.


I can't see the benefit either, or to the island concept in general. Yeah it would be nice to make it work, but you also give up a lot of "practical" freedom that way, and you don't prove anything anyway with a small group, even with a couple of hundred ppl. We already have Hong Kong, Singapore and other countries as examples for what happens when you have more economic freedom, but ppl just don't give a shit or they want their goodies.

When you reach a critical mass you can move an entire economy from subsistence to independently highly productive.  The more people involved, the stronger the economy can potentially become.  A few people will not achieve anything, as their time would be spent just trying to get by.  When you get thousands of people together, big things can be achieved.  The FSP is aiming for 10,000.   They could potentially run an independent economy.  They won't want to as there is more to profit from exchanging with others.  Some people will likely go fully off the USD though.  
  
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MAM
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« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2013, 06:14:37 PM »

Quote
When you reach a critical mass you can move an entire economy from subsistence to independently highly productive.  The more people involved, the stronger the economy can potentially become.  A few people will not achieve anything, as their time would be spent just trying to get by.  When you get thousands of people together, big things can be achieved.  The FSP is aiming for 10,000.   They could potentially run an independent economy.  They won't want to as there is more to profit from exchanging with others.  Some people will likely go fully off the USD though. 
 

The efficiency of the division of labour. And the animosity towards the fiat note that Ron Paul has generated among his followers are really the only reason why the FSP and New Hampshire are in my consideration box, as far as my relocation goes.

I've heard that Acopulco has a large segment of anarchists there. I might move there if that is the case. I don't know. There is so much to learn and too little time.
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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
janos
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« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2013, 07:29:19 PM »

Quote
When you reach a critical mass you can move an entire economy from subsistence to independently highly productive.  The more people involved, the stronger the economy can potentially become.  A few people will not achieve anything, as their time would be spent just trying to get by.  When you get thousands of people together, big things can be achieved.  The FSP is aiming for 10,000.   They could potentially run an independent economy.  They won't want to as there is more to profit from exchanging with others.  Some people will likely go fully off the USD though. 
 

The efficiency of the division of labour. And the animosity towards the fiat note that Ron Paul has generated among his followers are really the only reason why the FSP and New Hampshire are in my consideration box, as far as my relocation goes.

I've heard that Acopulco has a large segment of anarchists there. I might move there if that is the case. I don't know. There is so much to learn and too little time.

Acapulco seems like a decent choice indeed. We should go there for a few weeks and check it out - I know I will.
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MAM
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« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2013, 07:51:41 PM »

Janos this much I know for certain about Alcopulco. It suffers under the oppression of the Federales and is a stronghold for the Drug Cartels, the city is itself a stopping point for Columbian Cocaine on it's way north. Education in Guerero province isn't really good as the academia at the Alcopulco university left with the surge violence caused by the cartels.

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"A stone is heavy and the sand is weighty but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both"-Tuek

"Knowledge is power, and it's light weight. The more you know the less you need."-Cody Lundin

"Hey... it's a haiku

Democracy is
Two Zombies and a Sheriff
Deciding on Lunch."-Davi Barker
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