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Author Topic: social security in a voluntary society  (Read 12213 times)
Neo-Vendetta
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« on: February 26, 2013, 06:42:03 AM »

In world where law enforcement, courts, and all other security services would be provided by privately funded competitors rather than through taxation, and money would be privately and competitively provided in an open market there is nobodey who helpes people who are not able to work for any reason.
In a world where we converting present-day private property into the commons or public goods, while retaining respect for personal property that problem is solved bud since there are no security services this only workes in a small comunity.
My idea whas that money providing services also could accept products as a payment and than use these products as a public good for anybodey who can proof he or she is not able to work. What do you think?
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2013, 07:15:40 AM »

It sounds like you are creating a charity and calling it social security.

There is not nobody to help, currently or in the future.  The USA is the most charitable country in the world. It can be argued that fact is only hindered by the government taking responsibility away from people, which may explain why countries with more government involvement in such activities are less charitable.

I've been working with a charity for over a decade.  We actively raise money by providing a service, and use the profits to help a variety of causes. 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 07:31:34 AM by Syock » Logged

Neo-Vendetta
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2013, 09:40:00 AM »

I dont care how you call it thats not the point.
The point is that people who are unable to work for any reason have theire needs to like a home food water you name it.
In a anarcho-capitalistic world where money is the most inportent factor who would be willing to provide these things to people who dossent are able to pay for it?
You cant let them die cous theire human beings to.
So i made this post to ask people about theire ideas how we could provide these people theese things while living in a voluntary society.
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 10:09:58 AM »

I dont care how you call it thats not the point.

It kind of is the point.  Charity provides those things voluntarily.  Social security is done through government.

It seems you dislike the idea of charity, as you again are asking the same question after I provided a perfectly valid answer. 
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State-God
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 10:49:55 AM »

I dont care how you call it thats not the point.
The point is that people who are unable to work for any reason have theire needs to like a home food water you name it.
In a anarcho-capitalistic world where money is the most inportent factor who would be willing to provide these things to people who dossent are able to pay for it?
You cant let them die cous theire human beings to.
So i made this post to ask people about theire ideas how we could provide these people theese things while living in a voluntary society.

Like I've already said, there's several voluntary alternatives to government 'charity' including private charities, mutual funds (i.e. an organization where workers pay in for access to healthcare and a safety net upon hard times), workers cooperatives (I'm sure that communes and worker-owned companies will abound in the voluntary society, and it's likely that healthcare and other things will be included in their contracts).

I think the biggest thing that needs to be kept in mind is that society had and has some of these alternatives and others like them already; however, the government has consistently worked to make it nigh impossible for them to function (in the case of healthcare government intervention has made it impossible for voluntary societies to offer cheap health services) or to use taxpayer money to artificially cheapen access to these services, allowing them to out-compete voluntary alternatives.

Along with that, though, I think you should be wary of falling down the rabbit hole of utopianism. The reality is this- there's always going to be people who suffer, who 'fall through the cracks'. We should, obviously, mitigate such things as much as possible, but we shouldn't resort to en masse theft to comfort ourselves in the delusion that we're saving everybody.

EDIT: Also bear in mind that under both capitalism and anarcho-capitalism voluntary socialistic relationships are perfectly tolerable- even in the purportedly cutthroat capitalist nation of the U.S. it is -completely- legal to run a worker's cooperative or commune. The basic idea behind anarcho-capitalism isn't "WHOOO GO RICH PEOPLE!". It's that idea that voluntary association, peaceful cooperation and free trade are the basis' of a prosperous and healthy society.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 10:57:08 AM by State-God » Logged

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Neo-Vendetta
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 11:47:52 AM »

state-god yes you already answered me in my introduction post bud i like to have the opinion of more than one person so i started a post just for that.
and syoc i don't dislike charity i only remark that i don't care how its called all ideas are welcome this is just an idea and opinion post.
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 11:56:36 AM »

EDIT: Also bear in mind that under both capitalism and anarcho-capitalism voluntary socialistic relationships are perfectly tolerable- even in the purportedly cutthroat capitalist nation of the U.S. it is -completely- legal to run a worker's cooperative or commune.

Hell, it is easier to run them.  They tend to bypass mountains of regulations.



and syoc i don't dislike charity i only remark that i don't care how its called all ideas are welcome this is just an idea and opinion post.

Then why do you dismiss it?
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Neo-Vendetta
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2013, 01:04:17 PM »

Where did i say i disimis it?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 01:09:59 PM by Neo-Vendetta » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2013, 04:06:59 PM »


In a world where we converting present-day private property into the commons or public goods, while retaining respect for personal property that problem is solved

Look up tragedy of the commons.
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Neo-Vendetta
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2013, 05:53:32 PM »

Thankyou amagi i found it on wikipedia.
And so we have another reason such a system could only work in a small comunity
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2013, 06:39:52 PM »

Where did i say i disimis it?

You at the very least ignored it. 
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Neo-Vendetta
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2013, 07:55:32 PM »

what make you think that?
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2013, 08:08:21 PM »

Did you read your second post on this thread?  Did you read my first post on this thread?
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 08:19:36 PM »

In world where law enforcement, courts, and all other security services would be provided by privately funded competitors rather than through taxation, and money would be privately and competitively provided in an open market there is nobodey who helpes people who are not able to work for any reason.
In a world where we converting present-day private property into the commons or public goods, while retaining respect for personal property that problem is solved bud since there are no security services this only workes in a small comunity.
My idea whas that money providing services also could accept products as a payment and than use these products as a public good for anybodey who can proof he or she is not able to work. What do you think?

The key word is "Social" in your title.    With government (indiscriminate) welfare one can be an asshole ones entire life and thugs with guns will take money from those you have screwed and give it to you.

If one has been nice to ones children, ones friends, ones neighbors and community then they (just like we do today) will be naturally reciprocal and help out.

PS.  Your statement "In a anarcho-capitalistic world where money is the most inportent factor" is bullshit.
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State-God
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2013, 09:34:21 PM »

PS.  Your statement "In a anarcho-capitalistic world where money is the most inportent factor" is bullshit.

^
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