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Author Topic: Food Forest  (Read 11850 times)
Guardian
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« on: January 14, 2013, 08:03:48 PM »

I have always been interested in the natural world, specifically the cultivation of plants and the interactions between the various species in a given environment. It has been my observation that Western 'civilization' has been constantly trying to distance itself from nature, whose efforts were exponentially increased by the Industrial Revolution.

Yesterday, I stumbled upon the concept of a 'Food Forest'. While I had seen the term last fall during an anthropology class when studying the ancient Maya, I thought nothing of it at the time. Only yesterday, did I encounter several videos demonstrating the true magic of Gaia

Videos:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG7HqKoOGhY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG7HqKoOGhY</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG_vRG66wkA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG_vRG66wkA</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hftgWcD-1Nw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hftgWcD-1Nw</a>


I decided on posting about this topic because I want everyone to think of the possibilities that could occur if voluntaryists use this technique. This technique would allow voluntaryists to achieve complete food independence. After college, I will most definitely grow my own food forest.
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 11:21:51 PM »

 I don't know if this adds to the conversation, but a lot of people in this country are starting to replace their plants and grass with actual food gardens. Governments have been clamping down on these actions for quite some time.
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Guardian
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2013, 12:28:19 AM »

I don't know if this adds to the conversation, but a lot of people in this country are starting to replace their plants and grass with actual food gardens. Governments have been clamping down on these actions for quite some time.

Governments cannot allow people to be self-sufficient because then people would undoubtedly ask, "Why is there a government?" If an individual household, or small band of individuals, all work to together (by consent of course) and are able to provide their own food, water, and shelter, then they need no government.

I have only heard of governments eradicating gardens that are on the front lawn and/or are within city limits. But, undoubtedly as the government seeks to increase its power, it will move to legislate against backyard gardens, and gardens outside of city limits. 

Examples of governments destroying gardens:
~ (United States) http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/21/tulsa-destroy-survival-garden
~ (Canada) http://toronto.mediacoop.ca/newsrelease/13169
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Agrarian_Agorist
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 09:42:27 AM »

You should check out Sepp Holzer; he's from Austria and has been doing this kind of stuff since the 60's.  Unlike a typical 'Food Forest' or even permaculture, Sepp Holzer utilizes nearly everything: large rocks for heat retention, aquaculture, along with a Food Forest-type permaculture system and free roaming wild animals.  It reminds me of the early Pennsylvanian method of farming -which included methods acquired from Native Americans.  I am currently utilizing a similar system, but I've expanded it to include Bees and Bats as well.  The method which I employ -which is a combination of the methods I've listed above- will increase its yield year after year and commence something akin to terra-forming, buy utilizing the birds to distribute seeds everywhere.  By the time I'm old I wont have to do much of anything but to go outside and pick my fruit and vegetables and slaughter an animal.  This is a far better agricultural system then our current industrialized agricultural system, because it requires less input energy (work on the part of the farmer) year after year, while increasing the yield of the plants and animals year after year.  It also, not only retains the soil integrity, but it adds to the soil by the utilization of trees and support plants and natural compost provided by the plants.

That being said, you should look up Sepp Holzer; he has at least one book and there are several videos on youtube and such.  If you're into this kind of thing -even if it's only for research- I believe it would be worth your effort to look into his information.
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bsg1206
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 03:33:23 PM »

I've got a little business where I sell some heirloom seeds and help people set up organic food gardens and I help and teach them to maintain it. Some people can get virtually all their produce from their back yard. It's really fulfilling to achieve that peel of independence and see your hard work turn into something valuable.
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2013, 04:05:41 PM »

Some people can get virtually all their produce from their back yard.

Unfortunately that tends to be a very small portion of most peoples diets.  A garden is one thing, true food independence is quite a task.  In an ancap world, I would say it is completely unnecessary.  In a world where FEMA turns away trucks full of bottled water... go for it. 

I think we have had threads on this topic before. 
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Guardian
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2013, 11:04:20 PM »

You should check out Sepp Holzer; he's from Austria and has been doing this kind of stuff since the 60's.


I looked into Sepp Holzer and his work (or should I say nature's work and his knowledge) is amazing. For anyone that is interested on Sepp Holzer check out this article.


I am currently utilizing a similar system, but I've expanded it to include Bees and Bats as well.

That sounds awesome. Do you have an photographs or videos to show as an example for those of us that hope to one day do the same? It is one thing to read, but another to see. I'm really curious to how you integrated bats into the system. While their usefulness is obvious (fertilization and distribution of seeds), do you have a problem with the bats consuming too much of the edible fruit, leaving none for yourself? How do you get them to stay in one area? How does one acquire bats?

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Agrarian_Agorist
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 10:57:09 AM »

You should check out Sepp Holzer; he's from Austria and has been doing this kind of stuff since the 60's.


I looked into Sepp Holzer and his work (or should I say nature's work and his knowledge) is amazing. For anyone that is interested on Sepp Holzer check out this article.


I am currently utilizing a similar system, but I've expanded it to include Bees and Bats as well.

That sounds awesome. Do you have an photographs or videos to show as an example for those of us that hope to one day do the same? It is one thing to read, but another to see. I'm really curious to how you integrated bats into the system. While their usefulness is obvious (fertilization and distribution of seeds), do you have a problem with the bats consuming too much of the edible fruit, leaving none for yourself? How do you get them to stay in one area? How does one acquire bats?



While I do have pictures, I've only been at it for about 2 years.  It doesn't look anything like Sepp's place.  My strawberries, blueberries, and grapes aren't growing properly -the soil isn't right yet.  Lets just say that it is 'Under Construction.'  I am taking photos and some videos of the work I'm doing, however, I think I'll be waiting a while until it starts turning out the way I want it; to avoid chasing people away from trying this kind of stuff.

I've built bat boxes for the bats; bat boxes are similar to bird houses but the opening is on the bottom -obviously- and there is a perch of one kind or another(depending on the design one uses) inside the box for the bats to hang from.  Bats, while most may nip at fruit, usually will be found wherever there are flying insects especially mosquitoes.  Stagnant water is a breading ground for mosquitoes so all one needs is a pond or bucket with water in it and eventually you'll have mosquitoes. Place a bat box away from the house and in time, whether one has a source of mosquitoes or not, one will eventually have bats.  However, if a source of food is not nearby, the bats will move on.

 Bats will not eat all of ones fruit; well depending on the size of the property, the amount of fruit grown, and the number of bats one has acquired.  As stated earlier, if their are flying insects around the bats will usually go after them.  If there is plenty of water around most animals will leave much of your food alone.  Animals, while they do eat the food for sustenance, usually take a bite out of one fruit then another and then another, because of the water content of the fruit.  If there is water around, i.e. a pond, then this will usually not be a problem.

Another source for fertilization is urine.  Mix one part urine with ten parts water -this can be useful in making explosives as well; because, ones urine has ammonia in it in the form of urea.  By diluting it(the urine), with a greater quantity of water, makes it more able to be used as a fertilizer.  Rabbit dung is also very high in ammonia, so if one is to raise rabbits, then one will have to dilute their dung as to not over saturate the soil with ammonia, thereby making it harder to grow most plants.

One of these days, maybe this summer or next year, I will get a blog and vlog up on the net for others, but I really worry that if I cannot show significant proof early in the blog/vlog then people aren't going to want to do it.  I would like to be able to show the finished product, while also being able to show everything which went into making it a reality.  That being said, if I think about it or I get reminded, then when things start growing this year, I'll post a few pictures on the net for the individuals here, who might want to see it before my blog/vlog.  Like I said though, it isn't close to being finished the way that I want it.
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Tear-Down-the-Wall
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 02:21:30 PM »

Growing up in Eastern Oklahoma I'm use to this lifestyle. The funny thing is people in the city or other areas are wanting to learn about this lifestyle and how to do it. The folks in my area are becoming lazy. For instance many people, including my mother, use to can their own food. Now, they don't and it's becoming a lost art.

My grandparents had their own garden, hogs, cattle, and chickens. I grew up with the freshest veggies and meats. Looking back on it I was extremely spoiled because I would give anything to taste that type of food again.
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 12:20:01 AM »

Growing up in Eastern Oklahoma I'm use to this lifestyle. The funny thing is people in the city or other areas are wanting to learn about this lifestyle and how to do it. The folks in my area are becoming lazy. For instance many people, including my mother, use to can their own food. Now, they don't and it's becoming a lost art.

It reminds me of that old saying, "You always want what you don't have." A coworker of mine made the observation that the people who don't live in a heavily urban like watching shows like Madmen, while the people who do live in cities and towns like watching shows like Ax Men or Mountain Men. Maybe there is something to be said about human nature?

In any rate, you are a very lucky individual in that you know someone in your immediate family who possess these "traditional" skills. I wish I could be only so fortunate to have that opportunity.   


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Guardian
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2013, 09:04:46 PM »

It looks like another food forest is being constructed, this time in Seattle. What is interesting about this food forest is that it is built by and for the local community. It is a good example of voluntaryism in action. Different people coming together by their own will and working together.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVqCpxVKl8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVqCpxVKl8</a>

It will be interesting to see what happens with this food forest. I have a suspicion that someone will injure themselves or be injured by a wild animal, sue the city, and have it torn down. Or, due to the tragedy of the commons, people will take cart fulls and sell it on the side for a profit. Or maybe, someone will plant a few 'special plants' and law enforcement will come in and torch the place. 
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MAM
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2013, 09:33:28 PM »

Quote
It has been my observation that Western 'civilization' has been constantly trying to distance itself from nature, whose efforts were exponentially increased by the Industrial Revolution.

"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed." Sir Francis Bacon

If it exists it's by definition natural.
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AgoristTeen1994
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2013, 11:38:17 PM »


Another source for fertilization is urine.  Mix one part urine with ten parts water - this can be useful in making explosives as well; because, ones urine has ammonia in it in the form of urea.

One of these days, maybe this summer or next year, I will get a blog and vlog up on the net for others, but I really worry that if I cannot show significant proof early in the blog/vlog then people aren't going to want to do it.  I would like to be able to show the finished product, while also being able to show everything which went into making it a reality.  That being said, if I think about it or I get reminded, then when things start growing this year, I'll post a few pictures on the net for the individuals here, who might want to see it before my blog/vlog.  Like I said though, it isn't close to being finished the way that I want it.

You know I was just just going through this thread again and noticed your post...specifically your comment on urine and explosives. I actually have experience with using it in that manner, got the info from the gov'ts "Improvised Munitions Handbook (by the way that book and "Home Workshop Explosives" by Uncle Fester are all I'll ever need to make most explosives I'd want or need to use, and most of the devices also.) All you do is take some urine (your own would be the easiest to obtain) boil it to a tenth of it's original volume, i.e. if you have 10 cups of urine boil it down to 1 cup, filter what's left into another container (all you need is some finely textured cotton cloth) slowly add 1/3 volume of 90% concentration nitric acid (that is if you had 30 cups of urine and boiled it down to 3 cups and then filtered it, you'd add one cup of the nitric acid) and let the mixture stand for an hour. Afterwards filter the mixture as you did the boiled down urine, and then you take the crystals that should collect on the filtering material, wash them off, and then let them dry for 16 hours. And then you have urea nitrate. Smiley


P.S. I'd love to see that vlog you also mentioned if you send me a link.
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kunkmiester
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2013, 03:20:09 AM »

Make sure you don't blow yourself up while making that.
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Guardian
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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2013, 11:08:41 PM »

You know...urine and explosives....And then you have urea nitrate. Smiley


Make Food, Not Bombs!


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epui86fqmLg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epui86fqmLg</a>
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