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Author Topic: Labor Struggle: A Free Market Model  (Read 4510 times)
victim77
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« on: December 03, 2012, 09:26:26 PM »

Great article, if you want good ammunition to argue with leftists you can just read the first 5 pages. For those who don't feel like reading, Kevin Carson explains how the Wagner and Howard-Taft Acts and other government intrusion actually disadvantages unions and makes collective bargaining worthless By creating a Union bureaucracy that discourages "wild cat" strikes (spontaneous strikes without approval) and other ways of non-violently gaining leverage over employers.

http://c4ss.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/C4SS-Labor.pdf   
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State-God
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 09:55:54 PM »

Interesting. To be honest, I always used the "unions are just another kind of special interest group seeking to exclude all other workers" argument against the lefties, and never really did much research, mostly because I theorized that any books on the subject would be superbly biased pro-Union.

I guess I should look more into the topic, since the minimum wage and unionism is one of the topics I frequently butt heads on with various Statists.
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 10:12:18 PM »

I don't see the point in arguing with people about stuff like this...
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Syock
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2012, 08:12:21 AM »

Kevin Carson explains how the Wagner and Howard-Taft Acts and other government intrusion actually disadvantages unions and makes collective bargaining worthless By creating a Union bureaucracy that discourages "wild cat" strikes (spontaneous strikes without approval) and other ways of non-violently gaining leverage over employers.

Only fair, considering they are also special privileged by the government in that it takes so much to end even a single supposedly voluntary contract, that unions can force people to join the union against their will, and that often times replacing them with 'scabs' during a strike is illegal.  

I wonder victim77, if you even realize what effects such government restrictions have, both the ones you listed as well as mine, on the individual business and economy as a whole.  
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 08:55:48 AM by Syock » Logged

helio
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2012, 10:22:17 AM »

While it is good to have ammo to back up your arguments with people who are only weakly decided, I recommend staying away from arguments with leftists; It is a waste of your precious time and enegry.

Instead, I recommend starting a business that demonstrates the principle.
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 10:58:15 AM »

While it is good to have ammo to back up your arguments with people who are only weakly decided, I recommend staying away from arguments with leftists; It is a waste of your precious time and enegry.

Instead, I recommend starting a business that demonstrates the principle.

But then I would be part of the evil capitalist bourgeoise! OH NOES!
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victim77
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 07:16:59 PM »

Kevin Carson explains how the Wagner and Howard-Taft Acts and other government intrusion actually disadvantages unions and makes collective bargaining worthless By creating a Union bureaucracy that discourages "wild cat" strikes (spontaneous strikes without approval) and other ways of non-violently gaining leverage over employers.

Only fair, considering they are also special privileged by the government in that it takes so much to end even a single supposedly voluntary contract, that unions can force people to join the union against their will, and that often times replacing them with 'scabs' during a strike is illegal.  

I wonder victim77, if you even realize what effects such government restrictions have, both the ones you listed as well as mine, on the individual business and economy as a whole.  
I am simply proposing that in a free market the employer-employee relationship may be more equal than it is now. I believe that both of those privileges that the gov gives to unions that it approves of should obviously be dissolved. But, strikes nowadays can only be legal if approved by the official union and with notification to the employer. This creates a controlled environment in which replacing the workers with non union workers is not even necessary. This also eliminates any (legal) way for a group of workers to non-violently put pressure on the employer.

EDIT: Obviously it is in the employer's and union's best interest to use state violence to put down an illegal strike instead of having to increase his employee's salaries or in the union's case to lose political and economic power over the workplace. So the violence will indeed happen and the natural bargaining power of the unofficial strike will be lost.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 12:16:24 AM by victim77 » Logged
AgoristTeen1994
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 07:48:00 PM »

Victim77: Correction: It eliminates any way for a group of works to LEGALLY and non-violently put pressure on the employer.



Oh also this is directed toward everyone: How the hell am I supposed to add a strikethrough on a line of text? Because I was originally going to quote what victim77 said that wasn't previous quotes with a strike through in his last statement, and my correction as part of the quote, and then outside it say "There. Fixed it for you."

But I can't seem to get the strikethrough to work?
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victim77
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 12:11:03 AM »

Victim77: Correction: It eliminates any way for a group of works to LEGALLY and non-violently put pressure on the employer.



Oh also this is directed toward everyone: How the hell am I supposed to add a strikethrough on a line of text? Because I was originally going to quote what victim77 said that wasn't previous quotes with a strike through in his last statement, and my correction as part of the quote, and then outside it say "There. Fixed it for you."

But I can't seem to get the strikethrough to work?

Thanks let me revise that.
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