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Author Topic: Constitution of Delusion  (Read 5299 times)
BlackMarketVigilante
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« on: September 22, 2012, 02:04:30 PM »

I have absolutely given up on Constitutionalists and Minarchists. They're basically wishful-thinking Communists. I mean, there are differences between monarchists and democrats and Maoists but nothing that makes any difference to me. Why should crackpot state-capitalists be any different?

Having encountered some and read more (such as at places like the Daily Paul) I can see their political catechism is as empty and double-thinking as any sort of Marxoid drivel I've ever heard; and the fact that it's these nitwits who get identified as 'libertarians' would make me nauseated if that wasn't already a constant effect of anything on television.
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Seth King
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 02:51:44 PM »

I really wish the libertarian statists could see that ALL functions of the state are socialist.
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 04:01:58 PM »

 Tom Woods did an interview with Lew Rockwell where he talked about the anti-Rothbard movement within libertarian circles. I'll have to post it here.
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BlackMarketVigilante
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 04:59:34 PM »

Tom Woods did an interview with Lew Rockwell where he talked about the anti-Rothbard movement within libertarian circles. I'll have to post it here.
I downloaded that this morning, lol.
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macsnafu
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2012, 07:41:43 PM »

I have absolutely given up on Constitutionalists and Minarchists. They're basically wishful-thinking Communists. I mean, there are differences between monarchists and democrats and Maoists but nothing that makes any difference to me. Why should crackpot state-capitalists be any different?
Well, most people don't become anarchist overnight. It took me a few years after becoming libertarian to become full-blown ancap. So not all minarchists are hopeless.  Maybe they just need some more time to think about it.
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Coltan L.
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 02:07:44 PM »

Well, most people don't become anarchist overnight. It took me a few years after becoming libertarian to become full-blown ancap. So not all minarchists are hopeless.  Maybe they just need some more time to think about it.


I agree. I imagine most of us didn't start as ancaps or whatever.  I was a Marxist in high school. However, by the time I was introduced to Ancap stuff I was a very depressed libertarian at the nadir of the "libertarian depression" so I was ready to move on.  But the transition only took me a week or two.  I recommend the cop angle, Praetorian class with a separate set of rules, auto-authority, no real oversight, etc etc. Its fun to go the class angle and compare with ancient(modern?) Rome. Patricians, praetorians and plebeians. Politicians are an aristocracy that have their own rules who control reciprocity immune praetorians who do what they want.

It kind of shows the system is fucked when it relies on people not responding to perverse incentives.  There is a TJ quote about that, if men were angels or whatever.
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BlackMarketVigilante
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 11:29:26 AM »

I was apolitical, I never really had any specific views until I was an anarchist. As, really, people should be because you don't have a right to an opinion in ignorance. The trouble with most people is not that they are oblivious and stupid; it's that they believe anyway.
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Coltan L.
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 01:31:04 PM »

I was apolitical, I never really had any specific views until I was an anarchist. As, really, people should be because you don't have a right to an opinion in ignorance. The trouble with most people is not that they are oblivious and stupid; it's that they believe anyway.

Amen. The easiest way to terminate a discussion about politiks/policy/moraliy/econ with a normal statist type is ask them to explain where their beliefs come from, or how they all line up together. Also, how they happen to line up perfectly with one party or another. Coincidence?  They usually shut down and freak out.

Truth is most people don't care about overall ideological consistency or even in a singular issue. Normals need to *belong* so bad that politiks is just another club. Its an "important" one too. Tribalism and what not.
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BlackMarketVigilante
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 01:35:26 PM »

I was apolitical, I never really had any specific views until I was an anarchist. As, really, people should be because you don't have a right to an opinion in ignorance. The trouble with most people is not that they are oblivious and stupid; it's that they believe anyway.

Amen. The easiest way to terminate a discussion about politiks/policy/moraliy/econ with a normal statist type is ask them to explain where their beliefs come from, or how they all line up together. Also, how they happen to line up perfectly with one party or another. Coincidence?  They usually shut down and freak out.

Truth is most people don't care about overall ideological consistency or even in a singular issue. Normals need to *belong* so bad that politiks is just another club. Its an "important" one too. Tribalism and what not.
Yep. This is what makes a quasi-Objectivist into something of a misanthrope; or to put it another way a Mr. A into a Rorsasch. Once you realise the actual nature of man as a species you realise that reason is more or less an accident; more to be abused than used. Anyone with sense and integrity is a freak, and is treated as such by the gibbering bonobos on television.
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Coltan L.
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 03:14:38 PM »

I was apolitical, I never really had any specific views until I was an anarchist. As, really, people should be because you don't have a right to an opinion in ignorance. The trouble with most people is not that they are oblivious and stupid; it's that they believe anyway.

Amen. The easiest way to terminate a discussion about politiks/policy/moraliy/econ with a normal statist type is ask them to explain where their beliefs come from, or how they all line up together. Also, how they happen to line up perfectly with one party or another. Coincidence?  They usually shut down and freak out.

Truth is most people don't care about overall ideological consistency or even in a singular issue. Normals need to *belong* so bad that politiks is just another club. Its an "important" one too. Tribalism and what not.
Yep. This is what makes a quasi-Objectivist into something of a misanthrope; or to put it another way a Mr. A into a Rorsasch. Once you realise the actual nature of man as a species you realise that reason is more or less an accident; more to be abused than used. Anyone with sense and integrity is a freak, and is treated as such by the gibbering bonobos on television.

I agree. I've mentioned the Libertarian Depression, where you are seeing that the "celestial" institutions are failing and no one cares, and as a minarchist you can't see a way out. That way ends up being Anarchism.

But there is an Anarchist Depression phase too. Its when you really realize that its human nature that's failing and not institutions, which aren't even real.  However, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm certainly not totally there. I'm not sure I can, among my ancap friends I joke about my extreme lack of a psychological immune system.  Getting on reddit and seeing what passes for informed political opinions does mental damage to me.  But reading into the MyersBriggs test and understanding some people are extremely limited in certain areas. And also honestly admitting I (as a modern American) am dramatically conflating and complicating "happiness". Has made things easier.

I've met Ancaps or more accurately post-ancaps, lets just call them "People" because they're some of the few who I consider fully functional examples of humans, who are happy, productive, wealthy but more importantly *aware AND unconcerned*. That only happens once you see the failures of institutions and humans in general and turn your gaze on yourself. At that point you have mostly exhausted what you can do to improve your lot in life.
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BlackMarketVigilante
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 03:29:20 PM »

Right. Ideological and activist movements are essentially a mental crutch (to fill in for a lack of personal worth and talent) and a mate-getting scheme (especially among the young males walking around with Ron Paul signs). The very idea that it is somehow my job to save these cretins is absurd, and frankly I don't care what happens to most of them. A dead idiot may well be less dangerous than a live one; just because he gets killed illegally doesn't necessarily negate that (many clouds have silver linings, etc.).

The whole 'libertarian' circus is more or less a replica of any post-Christian/crypto-Christian cult; it's people trying to magic their way out of a Hellhole full of morons and inadvertantly feeding that Hellhole by giving it attention and treating dipshits as though their existence had meaning.

Doug Casey or H.L. Mencken are good examples of 'post-libertarians', people who stopped believing the religious lie that you are your brothers' keeper; or in the academic sense, that you have to engage or give a shit at all about other peoples' opinions.
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David Giessel
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 08:54:47 PM »

C.L. and B.M.V., loving the discussion between you two.

Having recently re-watched Event Horizon, I am reminded of one of the critical mistakes the crew in the movie made.

They misinterpreted the emergency transmission from the captain as, "Liberate me." (save me) when it turned out to be, "Liberate tutame ex inferis." (save yourself from hell).

If I thought they were worth it, I'd probably be shouting a similar message at places like Daily Paul. Thankfully I'm far enough along to not give a shit about people with stockholm syndrome anymore.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 08:57:43 PM by David Giessel » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 10:49:42 PM »

Some AnCaps (such as myself) are just optimistic that the government will be abolished though. I am concerned but in an optimistic way. It's fun to speak against the government and fight the forces of evil, not depressing. It's kind of an intellectual hobby, though more important.

I agree on one point though: I care more about my own success more than everyone elses'.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 10:51:44 PM by Rothbardian » Logged

BlackMarketVigilante
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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 12:18:19 AM »

Some AnCaps (such as myself) are just optimistic that the government will be abolished though. I am concerned but in an optimistic way. It's fun to speak against the government and fight the forces of evil, not depressing. It's kind of an intellectual hobby, though more important.

I agree on one point though: I care more about my own success more than everyone elses'.
The government will be abolished when mankind is no longer recognizable as such. Insofar as we are dealing with the typical genetic detritus that inhabits the globe it is certain that the state, or something equally retarded, is inevitable.
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macsnafu
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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 03:37:27 PM »

Some AnCaps (such as myself) are just optimistic that the government will be abolished though. I am concerned but in an optimistic way. It's fun to speak against the government and fight the forces of evil, not depressing. It's kind of an intellectual hobby, though more important.

I agree on one point though: I care more about my own success more than everyone elses'.
The government will be abolished when mankind is no longer recognizable as such. Insofar as we are dealing with the typical genetic detritus that inhabits the globe it is certain that the state, or something equally retarded, is inevitable.

I don't believe that abolishing the government is going to happen in my lifetime, but neither do I think it will be as long as "when mankind is no longer recognizable as such".

Human nature doesn't change, only the circumstances and environment that it is operating in.  When you have governments, given the legal authority to initiate force against people, throwing their weight around and basically playing "King of the Hill" with the world, it's natural for most people to go along with that.  But once enough people recognize the illegitimacy of governments, and treat them accordingly, the incentives for going along with the pro-government crowd will no longer be there, and a new set of incentives, new circumstances, will exist for human nature to operate in.  But they will still be recognizable as humans--human nature will still be the same.

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