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Author Topic: C4SS- I don't get it  (Read 11524 times)
Syock
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2012, 08:40:07 PM »

http://c4ss.org/content/13979

Horrible way to phrase things initially.  The expanded explanations below the bullet points is necessary.  I give them my approval (for what little that is really worth).  

Thanks for the suggestion on where to look victim77.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 08:44:01 PM by Syock » Logged

JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2013, 01:20:10 PM »

I haven't been to C4SS for a while. They seem to have redone (improved) their website. I read an article that had some good content. Part of it would be suitable for sharing with your "intellectual" political leftist friends.
http://c4ss.org/content/18449
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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2013, 09:11:55 PM »

They've had a lot of good reading on there recently. Here's a good one that talks about the left vs right libertarian conflict:
http://c4ss.org/content/14035

Here's a snippet from another article, it may be useful for understanding how they think:
"A free society wouldn’t and couldn’t eliminate investor-owned or boss-dominated firms—nor should it, not only because direct, violent interference with these patterns of ownership and control would be unjust but also because workers might often benefit from the ability to shift risk onto employers and investors. But eliminating state-secured privilege and remedying state-sanctioned aggression could create significantly greater opportunities for self-employment and work in partnerships and cooperatives."
http://c4ss.org/content/14416
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2013, 07:49:46 PM »

I translate some some texts into german from the C4SS. I like the FAQ and I like all what I heard/read from Karl Hess.

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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2013, 01:04:56 AM »

^I read the article by Chartier, and I actually agree with it in many aspects. I enjoy capitalism. However, I hate having to work for someone other than myself. Bossism is annoying to deal with. I want to enjoy the benefits of a self-made, venture style capitalist rather than a normal worker.
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Syock
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« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2013, 05:35:54 AM »

^I read the article by Chartier, and I actually agree with it in many aspects. I enjoy capitalism. However, I hate having to work for someone other than myself. Bossism is annoying to deal with. I want to enjoy the benefits of a self-made, venture style capitalist rather than a normal worker.

Nothing is stopping you from doing that right now.  

You voluntarily work for a boss, you do not have to.  If you are any good at your self-made style of business, you will end up being a boss, because the nature of success is more work than you can handle alone.  Then you will be the boss that you hate.   Have fun.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 05:40:03 AM by Syock » Logged

JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2013, 05:33:43 PM »

^I read the article by Chartier, and I actually agree with it in many aspects. I enjoy capitalism. However, I hate having to work for someone other than myself. Bossism is annoying to deal with. I want to enjoy the benefits of a self-made, venture style capitalist rather than a normal worker.

Nothing is stopping you from doing that right now.  
That isn't exactly fair. You have to admit that in a free market, the monster sized firms in many industries would not be as successful as they are now with all the state's subsidies. Government warps the competitive landscape, and that is certainly an obstacle to becoming a successful self-made freelancer. Obviously it depends on what you do but the effects of market distortion should not be underestimated. "Going alone" is not as financially rewarding as it "should" be.
One thing the "left" market anarchists get right is that you can't assume the winners under corporate statism will be the winners without it. There are clearly information problems that come up as a result of having excessive hierarchy in a business. In some fields, concentration of capital (and large firm size) is necessary, but in others it is not. Yet under a semi-fascist system, it gets concentrated anyways. Only big businesses can hire an army of attorneys.
Say you have an idea that could allow you to compete with a Fortune 500 company. Would you go toe to toe with them? They can strangle your business in lawsuits for years and never let you get started.

There are so many obstacles to successful entrepreneurship (other than its challenging nature) that it's no surprise people don't try. The odds of it being worthwhile are sooooo small.
In sum, there are plenty of things stopping him "from doing that right now."
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2013, 06:27:35 PM »

^I read the article by Chartier, and I actually agree with it in many aspects. I enjoy capitalism. However, I hate having to work for someone other than myself. Bossism is annoying to deal with. I want to enjoy the benefits of a self-made, venture style capitalist rather than a normal worker.

Nothing is stopping you from doing that right now.  
That isn't exactly fair.
In sum, there are plenty of things stopping him "from doing that right now."

About 70% of the people in the USA work for small businesses.  It certainly isn't impossible to start a company. 
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« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2013, 07:28:42 PM »

^I read the article by Chartier, and I actually agree with it in many aspects. I enjoy capitalism. However, I hate having to work for someone other than myself. Bossism is annoying to deal with. I want to enjoy the benefits of a self-made, venture style capitalist rather than a normal worker.

Nothing is stopping you from doing that right now.  
That isn't exactly fair.
In sum, there are plenty of things stopping him "from doing that right now."

About 70% of the people in the USA work for small businesses.  It certainly isn't impossible to start a company. 

Out of curiosity, where'd you get that statistic?
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2013, 08:18:51 PM »

^I read the article by Chartier, and I actually agree with it in many aspects. I enjoy capitalism. However, I hate having to work for someone other than myself. Bossism is annoying to deal with. I want to enjoy the benefits of a self-made, venture style capitalist rather than a normal worker.

Nothing is stopping you from doing that right now.  
That isn't exactly fair.
In sum, there are plenty of things stopping him "from doing that right now."

About 70% of the people in the USA work for small businesses.  It certainly isn't impossible to start a company.  
First of all that statistic isn't really relevant. Working "for" a small business is different from what I'm talking about. Bussers and dishwashers at local restaurants are not exactly what SinCityVoluntaryist was thinking of...

Let's think about the actual owners, because that's what is relevant here.
Who does better? The leach class (doctors, politicians, regulators, banksters) or people who own small businesses?

It's much better to be in the criminal class. Think about it. As a business owner, you take a lot of risk. But you don't reap nearly enough of the rewards. Taxes are so high that taking the risk is borderline irrational.
Small business owners bust their asses, work really long hours, bear loads of risk, get taxed for every thing you can think of, don't have as easy a time getting access to "benefits"...
With the down market, many small business owners who don't have enough saved for retirement were banking on being able to sell their businesses, but no one wants to buy them. And why would anyone? So they can go through the same struggles? So they can face the next generation of increased taxes and regulation? If business is hard now, just wait.
You think I'm exaggerating but that's the reality many people face.
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« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2013, 08:30:00 PM »

First of all that statistic isn't really relevant. Working "for" a small business is different from what I'm talking about. Bussers and dishwashers at local restaurants are not exactly what SinCityVoluntaryist was thinking of...

Let's think about the actual owners, because that's what is relevant here.
Who does better? The leach class (doctors, politicians, regulators, banksters) or people who own small businesses?

It's much better to be in the criminal class. Think about it. As a business owner, you take a lot of risk. But you don't reap nearly enough of the rewards. Taxes are so high that taking the risk is borderline irrational.
Small business owners bust their asses, work really long hours, bear loads of risk, get taxed for every thing you can think of, don't have as easy a time getting access to "benefits"...
With the down market, many small business owners who don't have enough saved for retirement were banking on being able to sell their businesses, but no one wants to buy them. And why would anyone? So they can go through the same struggles? So they can face the next generation of increased taxes and regulation? If business is hard now, just wait.
You think I'm exaggerating but that's the reality many people face.

It is relevant because it shows that there are still lots of them out there.  It isn't like the big companies have complete control.  I have owned businesses and had employees.  It isn't all that bad. 
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« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2013, 12:32:01 PM »

 There is one thing that I want to clarify on. When I say that I want to start my own business, I don't mean a small, I-want-to-hire-as-many-employees-as-possible business. Rather, I'm looking at starting a microbusiness. A microbusiness is a small, independent business that can be operated by just one person. The main key that defines these businesses is that they generally require very small amounts of capital in order to get started. Normally, you can start a microbusiness with a $100 investment. Such businesses have actually been exploding in the market place over the years thanks to the power of the internet and other emerging technologies.

 At the moment, I'm reading The $100 Start-Up. It's one the top selling business books out there right now, and it's reaaaaaly good. 

 Now, in regards to your discussion before, I find myself siding with JSNTS. Many large firms do rely on government subsides in order to expand to extremely high levels and rely on state based monopolies in order to hold an edge. Look at Wal-Mart, for example. Wal-Mart is perceived to be a free-market institution. However, they rely on massive government subsides in order to maintain their control in the market. That's not what I want to do business with. 

 Also, I agree with Syock that we shouldn't focus on blaming big business for everything. The inability to start businesses in this economy is due, first and foremost, to the failures of central planning.
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« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2013, 08:47:14 PM »

I don't remember writing this at all, or even visiting that site. Weird!
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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2013, 10:32:53 PM »

Also, I agree with Syock that we shouldn't focus on blaming big business for everything. The inability to start businesses in this economy is due, first and foremost, to the failures of central planning.
The counter is that big business does much of the central planning.
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