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Poll
Question: Would you do it?
Yes, I'd be one of the first to volunteer - 7 (35%)
Yes, I'd do it if 10 to 49 others already agreed to do it - 0 (0%)
Yes, I'd do it if 50 to 99 others already agreed to do it - 1 (5%)
Yes, I'd do it if 100+ others already agreed to do it - 2 (10%)
No - 7 (35%)
Other (please specify) - 3 (15%)
Total Voters: 19

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Author Topic: A New Land  (Read 23364 times)
Guardian
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2012, 01:56:42 PM »

...If things checked out they would start the taxing.  Violent? Yes, but not shoot on sight or anything. 


Consider that the Auckland Islands are a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and the island is a nature reserve towards the New Zealand government. Do you think this would factor into the equation of determining the type of response from the New Zealand government? Would it allow other governments (Australian, US, UK) to intervene on behalf of the United Nations?



Also note, the settlers in this idea would not submit to any outside government, whether it be New Zealand, Australia, or the United Nations, nor would they submit to any form of taxation or regulation.

Another note, the plan would not be to immigrate to New Zealand first, and then go down to the Auckland Islands, unless you wanted to I guess. Since, it is probable that the majority of people partaking in this endeavor would be from the United States or Canada; these people would sail from their close port of origin(Port of Oakland, Los Angeles, Seattle, Vancouver, etc) and arrive right off the shore of the Auckland Islands, and begin settlement. 
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MAM
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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2012, 04:28:48 PM »

...If things checked out they would start the taxing.  Violent? Yes, but not shoot on sight or anything. 


Consider that the Auckland Islands are a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and the island is a nature reserve towards the New Zealand government. Do you think this would factor into the equation of determining the type of response from the New Zealand government? Would it allow other governments (Australian, US, UK) to intervene on behalf of the United Nations?



Also note, the settlers in this idea would not submit to any outside government, whether it be New Zealand, Australia, or the United Nations, nor would they submit to any form of taxation or regulation.

Another note, the plan would not be to immigrate to New Zealand first, and then go down to the Auckland Islands, unless you wanted to I guess. Since, it is probable that the majority of people partaking in this endeavor would be from the United States or Canada; these people would sail from their close port of origin(Port of Oakland, Los Angeles, Seattle, Vancouver, etc) and arrive right off the shore of the Auckland Islands, and begin settlement. 

So then they'd just kill us when we refuse to submit to them...
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Guardian
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2012, 10:59:21 PM »


So then they'd just kill us when we refuse to submit to them...

I would have to disagree. I think that if the initial settlers played their cards rights, they could avoid bloodshed.  If the settlers arrived while New Zealand was in the middle of an election year, and the settlers contacted news reporters from various news agencies the moment New Zealand's military was spotted off shore, I think this might be able to prevent the New Zealand military from acting. No government, especially during an election year, will want video showing its soldiers slaughtering hundreds of people.

Don't get me wrong, I think there would be a small chance of having the whole thing turning out bloodless. But I don't think it is a guarantee bloodbath. 
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2012, 11:08:50 PM »


So then they'd just kill us when we refuse to submit to them...

I would have to disagree. I think that if the initial settlers played their cards rights, they could avoid bloodshed.  If the settlers arrived while New Zealand was in the middle of an election year, and the settlers contacted news reporters from various news agencies the moment New Zealand's military was spotted off shore, I think this might be able to prevent the New Zealand military from acting. No government, especially during an election year, will want video showing its soldiers slaughtering hundreds of people.

Don't get me wrong, I think there would be a small chance of having the whole thing turning out bloodless. But I don't think it is a guarantee bloodbath. 

It's what governments do kill people, it's what they're for.
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Guardian
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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 01:34:35 PM »


It's what governments do kill people, it's what they're for.

Yes, but like any beast, it can be distracted and manipulated. When analyzing the government, I like to use the metaphor of an octopus. The octopus, like government, grows with time and stretches its tentacles out and suffocates all those who come near it. However,  the octopus has only eight tentacles, which are slow to react and move. If we could tie up, or even cut off, the octopus's tentacles and divert its attention to other matters, we may be able to succeed.   
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Josh D
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2012, 10:02:42 PM »


It's what governments do kill people, it's what they're for.

Yes, but like any beast, it can be distracted and manipulated. When analyzing the government, I like to use the metaphor of an octopus. The octopus, like government, grows with time and stretches its tentacles out and suffocates all those who come near it. However,  the octopus has only eight tentacles, which are slow to react and move. If we could tie up, or even cut off, the octopus's tentacles and divert its attention to other matters, we may be able to succeed.   

I remember reading somewhere that most species of octopus are really intelligent, and that they continue learning throughout their entire lives.  I can't seem to find the quote but I recall a scientist saying that humanity should be thankful that most octopus only live for a few years, and that if they lived for 70 or 80 years humanity would be in serious danger.
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MAM
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2012, 12:36:19 AM »


It's what governments do kill people, it's what they're for.

Yes, but like any beast, it can be distracted and manipulated. When analyzing the government, I like to use the metaphor of an octopus. The octopus, like government, grows with time and stretches its tentacles out and suffocates all those who come near it. However,  the octopus has only eight tentacles, which are slow to react and move. If we could tie up, or even cut off, the octopus's tentacles and divert its attention to other matters, we may be able to succeed.   

I remember reading somewhere that most species of octopus are really intelligent, and that they continue learning throughout their entire lives.  I can't seem to find the quote but I recall a scientist saying that humanity should be thankful that most octopus only live for a few years, and that if they lived for 70 or 80 years humanity would be in serious danger.

Though you are right that octopi only live short spans and learn quickly I don't think we would be in danger if they did live longer, we live on land they in water...
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2012, 12:45:47 AM »


It's what governments do kill people, it's what they're for.

Yes, but like any beast, it can be distracted and manipulated. When analyzing the government, I like to use the metaphor of an octopus. The octopus, like government, grows with time and stretches its tentacles out and suffocates all those who come near it. However,  the octopus has only eight tentacles, which are slow to react and move. If we could tie up, or even cut off, the octopus's tentacles and divert its attention to other matters, we may be able to succeed.   

I remember reading somewhere that most species of octopus are really intelligent, and that they continue learning throughout their entire lives.  I can't seem to find the quote but I recall a scientist saying that humanity should be thankful that most octopus only live for a few years, and that if they lived for 70 or 80 years humanity would be in serious danger.

Though you are right that octopi only live short spans and learn quickly I don't think we would be in danger if they did live longer, we live on land they in water...
They can leave the water though. Also, they've been shown to make use of the resources in their environment in very intelligent ways, such as using rocks to build defensive walls before they go to sleep. That's a small step away from developing science and then taming the sharks and arming them with stef's famous laser beams.
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2012, 01:19:18 AM »


It's what governments do kill people, it's what they're for.

Yes, but like any beast, it can be distracted and manipulated. When analyzing the government, I like to use the metaphor of an octopus. The octopus, like government, grows with time and stretches its tentacles out and suffocates all those who come near it. However,  the octopus has only eight tentacles, which are slow to react and move. If we could tie up, or even cut off, the octopus's tentacles and divert its attention to other matters, we may be able to succeed.   

I remember reading somewhere that most species of octopus are really intelligent, and that they continue learning throughout their entire lives.  I can't seem to find the quote but I recall a scientist saying that humanity should be thankful that most octopus only live for a few years, and that if they lived for 70 or 80 years humanity would be in serious danger.

Though you are right that octopi only live short spans and learn quickly I don't think we would be in danger if they did live longer, we live on land they in water...
They can leave the water though. Also, they've been shown to make use of the resources in their environment in very intelligent ways, such as using rocks to build defensive walls before they go to sleep. That's a small step away from developing science and then taming the sharks and arming them with stef's famous laser beams.

Hehehe I guess you're right and when this starts the fundies get scared and decide to kill the abominations and we have a genocide on our hands.
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Guardian
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« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2012, 11:17:38 PM »

For those of you that have stated that you would embark on such an endeavor, do you have any insights that you wish to share with the rest of us? Do you think that the two choices are suitable for this mission? What would you want to get out of this whole quest? What other thoughts do you have in regards to this idea?
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acft
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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2012, 05:07:40 PM »

Guardian: have a look at this article about a similar project. http://www.ancapfreethinker.info/?p=88
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helio
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« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2012, 05:27:04 PM »

I think this is a distraction. I want to see anarchists try these sort of things in my lifetime but in order to do that we need cold hard cash.  I hope to encourage people to make money so we can seriously invest in ventures of this type.  Put the capitalist in Anarcho-capitalist.
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Syock
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« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2012, 05:37:50 PM »

I think this is a distraction. I want to see anarchists try these sort of things in my lifetime but in order to do that we need cold hard cash.  I hope to encourage people to make money so we can seriously invest in ventures of this type.  Put the capitalist in Anarcho-capitalist.

The 'capitalists' that get rich enough to pull off this type of stuff tend to be playing the governments game.  A lot of ancaps refuse to do that.  Odds are most ancaps will get/are stuck in the middle ground with the rest of the private market.
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helio
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« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2012, 06:28:55 PM »

Quote
playing the governments game

What game would that be? 
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« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2012, 09:12:09 PM »

" I want to see anarchists try these sort of things in my lifetime but in order to do that we need cold hard cash.  I hope to encourage people to make money so we can seriously invest in ventures of this type.  Put the capitalist in Anarcho-capitalist."

I agree 100%. It has to start somewhere. Also, I think engaging in business with the eventual goal of starting these kinds of projects is realistic.
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