Daily Anarchist Forum
February 01, 2023, 08:12:22 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome to the Daily Anarchist Forum!
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: How To Fight Conspiracies And Win  (Read 6302 times)
Seth King
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
*****
Posts: 3211



View Profile WWW
« on: July 10, 2010, 04:58:57 AM »

This is a really long article, but it sums up almost exactly how I feel about the conspiracy buffs running around. I used to be one, so I know how futile focusing on conspiracies is as opposed to philosophy. If you find yourself glued to Alex Jones or the John Birch Society, please read this.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north863.html
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 05:12:21 PM by Seth King » Logged

When are you moving to New Hampshire?
FormerlyBrainwashed
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 68


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 01:42:31 AM »



Interesting to see an article by North on this forum. The premise of this piece is also quite ironic as it reminds me of a much lengthier work if his that peaked my initial curiosity (almost 5 years ago) about the true genesis of the American Republic (see: "Conspiracy in Philadelphia" by Gary North - http://www.garynorth.com/philadelphia.pdf)... A very scholarly piece indeed! What drew me to this book was another article by North on Lew Rockwell (way back when) called, "The Most Successful Fraud in American History." - (http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north445.html). When I initially encountered the links above, I was quite supportive of the idea of constitutionalism.

In that article he also references another [extremely] dated book - "Secret Proceedings and Debates of the Constitutional Convention, 1787":

"No member of the Convention ever revealed what went on behind those closed doors. This included the opponents of the Constitution. Luther Martin of Maryland, a signer of the Declaration of Independence, opposed the Convention's plan within days of his participation. He kept notes of the debates, but his notes were not published until 1838, two years after Madison's death – the last member of the Convention to die. Martin's notes were published along with Robert Yates' notes, who also attended and opposed what had been done there: Secret Proceedings and Debates of the Constitutional Convention, 1787. Today, this book is unread by most graduate students of the era, let alone by the general public. I cannot find it on-line in text form – just offers to sell copies of the book. When a document of this level of historical importance is not on-line for free, the memory hole is still operating."

I found an online version a little over a year ago and sent it to him since he said he could not find it in a "free" form. I also ordered a copy of it from the University of Michigan as well as a few others for some like minded souls. I agree with North when he says that it is a very important piece of history.

Secret Proceedings and Debates of the Constitutional Convention, 1787 (1821 version) - http://books.google.com/books?id=Hf8ZdYMBLuQC&dq=Secret%20Proceedings%20and%20Debates&pg=PA3#v=onepage&q&f=false

At any rate… All worth reading for those who are sick of hearing the general plea by many that all Americans need to do is rally behind the “founders’ original intent, and all will be okay…” Though even most of the “Anti-Federalists” buckled later on as well, there is plenty of stuff out there that sheds light on what exactly the original intent was. These books that receive little to no attention in American history classes paint a much different picture than the smoke and mirrors American mythology that we are accustomed to. And they are the words of men who were actually there not these self-proclaimed “constitutional experts” that are a dime a dozen.

Another good book to read is Kenneth Royce’s – Hologram of Libertyhttp://www.javelinpress.com/hologram_of_liberty.html

Okay… probably too much (too many links) for one post.

His (North’s) references to R.J. Rushdoony also brought me back several years as it reminds me of some of [his] works that I have in my library but haven't read in quite some time (re: This Independent Republic, The Insitututes of Biblical Law, and By What Standard).

Although I can no longer embrace organized religion (after 14 years of serious studies), I still find it interesting to contemplate the path the brought me to where I am today (in terms of my worldview). These authors that are generally seldom mentioned seem to come up when I’d least expect it. I never would have thought I’d be reading about North and/or Rushdoony on an anarchist forum!

One thing I’d like to add to his conclusion.

He said:

“You can't beat something with nothing. This is why people don't really want to change it. It costs too much money, too much commitment, and too much time. That is why we face a crisis. That is why the Tea Party movement is probably not going to succeed in anything except being a spoiler.”

While I agree with him on his basic point, I’d have to take it one step further. The MAIN reason why groups such as Tea Parties and 9-12’ers, etc. won’t succeed is because they fail to realize that even if they were successful in their goals, all they’d have secured would be a lesser degree of bondage than they have today. They do not realize (nor do they want to hear) that even a “constitutional restoration” still means rulers and ruled. They talk an aweful lot about liberty and freedom, but they have no genuine concept of it whatever as long as they continue to appeal to the very founding documents that established the rulers in the first place.

There is so much more to say than this but I’ll leave it at that… 

Logged
Seth King
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
*****
Posts: 3211



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 03:10:20 PM »

You are a wealth of information and I enjoy your posts. Don't worry about attaching too many links. The books you linked to regarding the secret meetings of the Constitutional Convention sound fascinating. I doubt I'll ever get around to reading them. It almost seems as if they would benefit somebody more who thinks the Constitution is the be all to end all. It would have benefited me more a few years ago, I think, than it does now. Now that I am an anarchist convert, I would rather spend more time focusing my energies on building that philosophy than on tearing down the mythology that is the U.S. Constitution.
Logged

When are you moving to New Hampshire?
FormerlyBrainwashed
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 68


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2010, 04:02:02 PM »



The main reason I share these things (even on a self-described anarchist forum) is so others may do some homework (if they so desire) and have the means to counter their conservative-tea-party-minarchist friends who love to regurgitate whatever lines they learned the night before from Glenn Beck about the "founders."

While Jerry Maguire may have "had her at hello," my experience with most "constitutionalists" is that they are turned off at hello if you don't deal with them in terms they are familiar with. Most people have heard of anarchism, liberty, freedom, etc.. The problem is, they automatically think anarchism equals chaos, and that liberty is granted to them via the Declaration of Independence and secured via the (so-called) Constitutionally Limited Republic.

Being capable of working through certain crucial areas of history that they have never considered before can oftentimes open the door to further discussion.

People really have an aversion to being lied to. The best way to facilitate liberty beyond ones own person (IMHO) is via edcuating others (who are willing to listen) about how they've been duped for so many years. Once they learn to get off the tit, then they begin to seek more information and practical ways of throwing off those who withhold their progress.


Logged
Seth King
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
*****
Posts: 3211



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 04:19:49 PM »

I couldn't agree more. This site takes a duel pronged approach. My goal is to have a site that will help current anarchists have a website of their own, much like Daily Paul is for the libertarian minarchists. The other goal is to have a website that will offer enough information to the minarchists to show them that anarchy is the logical conclusion to libertarianism. So, your above post was perfectly acceptable material for this site.

As far as introductions are concerned. I had heard the term anarcho-capitalism many times from people like Tom Woods, Walter Block, and LRC. But I really didn't know what they were talking about or why they wanted to dissolve government completely. I suppose I just wasn't ready for it when I first heard it. I had to learn about it when I was more receptive.

I'm not too concerned about people brushing off the anarchists the first time they hear what we are talking about because I know how this stuff works. It's like when I sold Ron Paul books door-to-door. The best successes were those houses that actually bought a book. They were few and far between. But most houses had never heard of Ron Paul before and weren't about to buy a book from some stranger right then and there. But I didn't consider those houses to be failures. This is because they were only introduced to Ron Paul for the first time then. Maybe in a few months they will hear one of their nephews talking about how awesome he is. Then a colleague will promote him. Then, one day, a friend will show their support for Ron Paul, and only then will the person finally say to themself "Who IS this Ron Paul guy?" Then they will buy his book and read it. That is how change happens.

I know that anarchy is totally new to most people, but I take solace in the fact that I am still helping propagate anarchism by being a positive introduction, and not just some dirtbag punk.

Logged

When are you moving to New Hampshire?
randallstevens
Full Member
***
Posts: 174


FREEDOM!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 08:57:13 PM »

I read Mr. North's article this morning and found it to be a decent read. I did have some small issues with the following:

You can't beat something with nothing. This is why people don't really want to change it. It costs too much money, too much commitment, and too much time. That is why we face a crisis. That is why the Tea Party movement is probably not going to succeed in anything except being a spoiler.

But, if individuals at the local level begin to organize, this may change. When the checks stop coming from Washington, it is going to be politically acceptable to resist the extension of Federal power. The main reason why local politicians are willing to accept the extension of Federal power is because they fear the withdrawal of Federal money. When there is no more Federal money coming out of Washington, you will see organized resistance to the extension of Federal power. That will be a great day.


I disagree that people don't want to change the system simply because it would be to hard and expensive. I think they also don't want to change it because fundamentally most people do not want to be free. As anarchists, we are familiar with the fact that with freedom comes responsibility, and therein lies the rub. Most people do not want to take responsibility for their own lives. They like the idea that the government will be there to bail them out after they mess up. The thought of not being able to suck off the government teat frightens them.

Also, I think that the federal money will continue to come out of Washington, no matter how bad the budget shortfalls. The checks will continue to come simply because the Feds can fire up the printing press to cover entitlement payments. That being said, they can do nothing to ensure that the dollars they print will be able to buy anything. Alan Greenspan said it best, "we can guarantee cash, but we cannot guarantee purchasing power."

What do you folks think of many of the conspiracy ideas floating around these days? I tend to doubt most government conspiracies such as the moon landing was a government hoax, 9/11 was an inside job, etc. Not to say that there may not be some truth to them, but having worked for the federal government myself, I cannot envision any circumstances where many government employees planned, executed, and silenced large scale, history changing events. We're talking about the same folks who can't deliver the mail on time.
Logged

He doesn't exist, except on paper.
FormerlyBrainwashed
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 68


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2010, 12:40:33 PM »



Quote
I think they also don't want to change it because fundamentally most people do not want to be free.

Absolutely correct!

Quote
What do you folks think of many of the conspiracy ideas floating around these days?

I don't spend too much time looking into them because in general, it doesn't matter whether they (the oligarchy) were complicit in any sort of conspiracy or not... It all pales in comparison to the evil that their system perpetuates on a daily basis IN BROAD DAYLIGHT, and, with the sanction of countless millions of dupes.

The only benefit to spending any time in research of some of those "theories" is wherein clear and obvious contradictions of reality are present (e.g. you can't fit a 150 foot wide airplane in a 16 foot in diameter hole such as was suggested in the case of the Pentagon on 9/11/01). The use in considering or discussing any of that then, is merely to point out how flagrantly ridiculous "official" government stories are. It certainly does get some people's wheels turning when perhaps they wouldn't have considered anything that challenged their public indoctrination prior to.

I also was a former government employee and have first hand experience of people fraudulantly forcing through weapons systems and the like.

You said:

Quote
I cannot envision any circumstances where many government employees planned, executed, and silenced large scale, history changing events. We're talking about the same folks who can't deliver the mail on time.

I would submit to you that "dupes" don't even know that they are dupes (most of the time). There are plenty of examples in history where small groups of powerful people change the curse of history.

 

Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!