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Author Topic: Another "Warlord Argument" from a statist....  (Read 4109 times)
johnhorton91
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« on: June 27, 2012, 10:47:36 PM »

I was talking with some statist and he claimed that private security firms would gang up, eliminate competing firms and create a government. He also claimed that the richest guy would become a dictator. I'm relatively new to the whole anarchy thing so I need to practice arguing my point better. (Sorry if this has already been discussed in another thread)
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"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive..." ~ C.S. Lewis
JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2012, 11:17:23 PM »

In my opinion, Stefan Molyneux has done a good job of explaining why this would be difficult to do. Note that he has addressed this topic dozens of times, so if you check out some of his other videos, you will inevitably stumble upon some more.

This video had a big impact on me when I first saw it. I've linked to the part that seems most relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gK2xB9F9Ag#t=51m30s
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"I like to eat. Instead of a monarch I propose we have a Chef be final arbiter in matters. We'll call it anarcho-chefism."
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Seth King
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2012, 11:19:01 PM »

Just remind him that the most powerful people in the world now don't use their own money to wage evil wars. They use our money. People even as rich as Rockefeller would go bankrupt in a month funding their own war.
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2012, 11:46:06 PM »

In my opinion, Stefan Molyneux has done a good job of explaining why this would be difficult to do. Note that he has addressed this topic dozens of times, so if you check out some of his other videos, you will inevitably stumble upon some more.

This video had a big impact on me when I first saw it. I've linked to the part that seems most relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gK2xB9F9Ag#t=51m30s
I agree with molyneux, but I like Jan better. He sticks is very intelligent and down to earth. I don't understand why someone as smart as Jan (or Hazlitt) doesn't make the logical push to anarchy.

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Hanzo
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2012, 11:51:18 PM »

It is ridiculous when statists say this.

"If obama gets reelected, elephants will stampede suburban america and kill every first born child."

See, I can make ludicrous claims without evidence as well. It really gets to me when someone is arrogant enough to say that they know what everyone or every group of people will do in a certain situation.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 12:10:00 AM »

Proof:








               
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 12:17:04 AM by JustSayNoToStatism » Logged

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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 12:41:28 AM »

Rothbard went over this arguement in his works. You need to remind your friend of a few things. First, we already live in a world of warlords. The monopoly that the goveVernment has on defense forces us to submit to a system that abuses us and arrests people for victimless crimes. Under A market system, if one defense system becomes too powerful, we have the ability to simply move away from it and choose another.
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AgoristTeen1994
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 07:04:42 PM »

Here's a good article from the Mises Institute which does a pretty decent job in my opinion.
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 08:23:00 PM »

 I don't see an article, AgoristTeen1994.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 02:53:17 PM by JustSayNoToStatism » Logged

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johnhorton91
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2012, 01:35:26 AM »

I don't see one either, but I wanna read it!
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rahvin
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2012, 03:28:16 AM »

This is an excerpt from a larger work I wrote addressing that objection.  Hopefully you will find it helpful. 

Note to government lurkers:  You'll notice that this does not advocate the violent overthrow of government as banned by your 18 USC 2385. 

What about the mafia or a new government that will form?

There is a lot of concern that once anarchy is achieved it will prove to be unsustainable because a new government, perhaps in the form of the mafia, will arise.

Let's begin with the practical argument that a new State, or mafia-state, will not be able to rise out of anarchy.  Consider if people, en-masse, decided to withdraw their consent to be governed. First by ceasing to pay taxes and engaging in civil disobedience and then by killing the tax collectors, police, and military members who attempt to take away their property and force them back into submission to the State.  To provide the most extreme example, despite possessing the most powerful military and police forces in the history of the world,  even the U.S. Government would not last but a few months if subject to this kind of rebellion.  This is because the U.S. Government only has about 4 million armed agents (military, police, prison guards, IRS, FBI, etc.) which constitutes 1.3% of the population.  There is no way they could exist without their supporting masses.  One must wonder how a less powerful mafia would rise to power within a culture were they do not enjoy the support of the masses and where tyrants have been killed, where would-be tyrants will be killed, and would-be tyrants will keep being killed until they finally figure out that people are not willing to be oppressed. 

   Side note:  the mafia gained most of its power from the State.  They bought off the police and    judges and let the government disarm their victims and grant them monopoly power over their    industry by closing down their competitors because the mafia primarily dealt in illegal activities    like alcohol, prostitution, and gambling.  It took a State solution of the FBI/IRS (which has    continued on to grossly violate people's rights) to end a problem of the State being exploited.     

It is ironic that people worry about the mafia but then they support an even worse State when it makes more sense to eliminate first the largest criminal groups, the State, and then turn the focus onto the smaller criminal groups. 
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Syock
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2012, 09:32:33 AM »

I can certainly understand where the warlord argument comes from.  As has been said, it really comes down to consent.  This is another time I would point at Somalia.  It really is a very interesting example.  They killed off all their warlords and lived in peace and relative prosperity for a time in pure Ancap.  However, they consented to a warlord to deal with the USA backed Ethiopian threat to install a government there.  They essentially created a warlord government to avoid having one forced on them.  It is no coincidence that pirates suddenly became a problem when they suddenly had a war to fund. 

They were for a time the only country in North Africa creating a surplus of food and exporting it.  They were busy improving their lives when they were left alone. 
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AgoristTeen1994
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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2012, 09:38:20 AM »

Woops I forgot to post the link http://mises.org/daily/1855
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