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Author Topic: Converting an anarcho-communist  (Read 71657 times)
JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2012, 10:26:36 PM »

<tongue held> Must... not... waste... energy.
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"I like to eat. Instead of a monarch I propose we have a Chef be final arbiter in matters. We'll call it anarcho-chefism."
-MAM
Kinglord of Castle Manufactoria
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« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2012, 11:17:00 PM »



One of you is clearly a time traveler.

Seriously though, Assassassin7, defend that assertion with facts.

If you aren't willing to, whatever I say next overrides your statement because I say so.
All people can make voluntary trades.
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assasin7
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« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2012, 10:07:47 AM »

You can only make voluntary trades when both sides have equal power. If A has a huge factory and B needs money for his cancer treatment, any deal involving money they make will be exploitative, in A's favor. Ancapism would only work in small village where everyone is a skilled laborer or a farmer.
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"owning a fire arm, that's a hanging offense"
"then go hang yourself"
Kinglord of Castle Manufactoria
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« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2012, 11:03:15 AM »

I would say, if anything A, Kinglord of the Manufactorum, is being generous by hiring someone with cancer.

It's a simple thing, B has labor, A has money. B sells his labor to A.
If B doesn't want to sell labor to A, B takes his business elsewhere.
Both people acquire something they want if they decide to trade.

Your magic spells don't work on me.
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assasin7
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« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2012, 11:19:19 AM »

I would say, if anything A, Kinglord of the Manufactorum, is being generous by hiring someone with cancer.

It's a simple thing, B has labor, A has money. B sells his labor to A.
If B doesn't want to sell labor to A, B takes his business elsewhere.
Both people acquire something they want if they decide to trade.

Your magic spells don't work on me.

No, A is going to DIE if he doesn't get hired, B doesn't have a gun to his head, so B will exploit A. Coercion is not just violence.
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"owning a fire arm, that's a hanging offense"
"then go hang yourself"
JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2012, 01:39:40 PM »

You can only make voluntary trades when both sides have equal power. If A has a huge factory and B needs money for his cancer treatment, any deal involving money they make will be exploitative, in A's favor. Ancapism would only work in small village where everyone is a skilled laborer or a farmer.
Competition works in both directions. The difference in bargaining power that you perceive only exists in select industries. Most of the time, firms have to compete to offer the best wages to qualified workers.

You also haven't explained the exact method through which the owner can "exploit" someone who needs to make his money quickly. If anything, he'll be less likely to accept a lower-paying job, because it wouldn't cover the bills anyways. He can commit to reject lower wages, improving his bargaining position.

@JakeM: I'm not seeing the time-traveling...
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"I like to eat. Instead of a monarch I propose we have a Chef be final arbiter in matters. We'll call it anarcho-chefism."
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« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2012, 02:43:12 PM »

@JakeM: I'm not seeing the time-traveling...

I was implying that assassassin7 was the statist Josh was referring to.
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assasin7
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« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2012, 03:11:09 PM »

You can only make voluntary trades when both sides have equal power. If A has a huge factory and B needs money for his cancer treatment, any deal involving money they make will be exploitative, in A's favor. Ancapism would only work in small village where everyone is a skilled laborer or a farmer.
Competition works in both directions. The difference in bargaining power that you perceive only exists in select industries. Most of the time, firms have to compete to offer the best wages to qualified workers.

You also haven't explained the exact method through which the owner can "exploit" someone who needs to make his money quickly. If anything, he'll be less likely to accept a lower-paying job, because it wouldn't cover the bills anyways. He can commit to reject lower wages, improving his bargaining position.

@JakeM: I'm not seeing the time-traveling...

Making B work long hours for little pay
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"owning a fire arm, that's a hanging offense"
"then go hang yourself"
Kinglord of Castle Manufactoria
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« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2012, 03:52:42 PM »

The picture you're painting is like this medieval eastern european village with some kind of castle-factory, where Kinglord CEOvus reigns over his people with a constant monopoly on all jobs ever.
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assasin7
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« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2012, 03:55:49 PM »

if the shoe fits...
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"owning a fire arm, that's a hanging offense"
"then go hang yourself"
Kinglord of Castle Manufactoria
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« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2012, 04:06:26 PM »

IT WILL BE PRODUCED IN MY CASTLE FACTORY.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2012, 09:12:36 PM »

You can only make voluntary trades when both sides have equal power. If A has a huge factory and B needs money for his cancer treatment, any deal involving money they make will be exploitative, in A's favor. Ancapism would only work in small village where everyone is a skilled laborer or a farmer.
Competition works in both directions. The difference in bargaining power that you perceive only exists in select industries. Most of the time, firms have to compete to offer the best wages to qualified workers.

You also haven't explained the exact method through which the owner can "exploit" someone who needs to make his money quickly. If anything, he'll be less likely to accept a lower-paying job, because it wouldn't cover the bills anyways. He can commit to reject lower wages, improving his bargaining position.

@JakeM: I'm not seeing the time-traveling...

Making B work long hours for little pay
Why not go work for the other guy down the street who pays more?
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"I like to eat. Instead of a monarch I propose we have a Chef be final arbiter in matters. We'll call it anarcho-chefism."
-MAM
assasin7
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« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2012, 10:15:35 PM »

Its the idea of working for someone i dont like selling your time to anothers control
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"owning a fire arm, that's a hanging offense"
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« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2012, 04:29:29 AM »

Its the idea of working for someone i dont like selling your time to anothers control

The weird, weird backwards land of ancom: 

Give me what I want and need or else you are coercing me.

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Hanzo
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« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2012, 11:01:01 AM »

All of his examples would be bunk in a free market. The price of getting an edumacation is artificially raised by the government. There is also the licensing, taxes, and the overall cost of living would be extremely cheap in a free market.

His examples of what occurs in the current system do not apply to a theoretical stateless society.

Also, why are communists on the internet always rich kids? Anyone have any idea?

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