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Author Topic: Adam Kokesh: "Anarcho-Capitalists are the real anarchists"  (Read 27868 times)
assasin7
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« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2012, 11:38:05 PM »

Yes but each time the money is invested, more workers are fired, and then like a cartoon animal that just realized it was running on air, it collapses
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« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 12:41:33 AM »

Yes but each time the money is invested, more workers are fired, and then like a cartoon animal that just realized it was running on air, it collapses

Are you trolling me?
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2012, 11:53:57 AM »

  How...what? Wh..where are you getting your logic from?
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assasin7
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2012, 12:15:10 PM »

bassically this:

It is cheaper and faster to produce goods with robots then with people. Production of goods makes up a large part of the economy. The more money a company makes the more robots it will employ. This will cause a collapse of the economy as more goods are produced for less consumers. When this happens new industries are opened up for sale, in a free market everything is private from the get go. So the only way to expand is to take over areas that aren't part of the market, IE start wars with communist areas.
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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2012, 01:17:38 PM »

 Can someone point out some good articles regarding robots in the free market? Seems to be the one thing Rothbard never talked about. Although, the argument just seems silly.
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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2012, 01:26:32 PM »

Can someone point out some good articles regarding robots in the free market? Seems to be the one thing Rothbard never talked about. Although, the argument just seems silly.
Simply a problem of false premise: "Robots can do every job and do it without creating other jobs"

Just plain wrong.  If this was possible McDonalds would have 0 employees.
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assasin7
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« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 02:07:36 PM »

Can someone point out some good articles regarding robots in the free market? Seems to be the one thing Rothbard never talked about. Although, the argument just seems silly.
Simply a problem of false premise: "Robots can do every job and do it without creating other jobs"

Just plain wrong.  If this was possible McDonalds would have 0 employees.

Not in the service industry, in production. They can do more jobs than they create, you need one mechanic to fix a robot, instead of 20 workers to make a car.
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« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2012, 02:12:55 PM »

Can someone point out some good articles regarding robots in the free market? Seems to be the one thing Rothbard never talked about. Although, the argument just seems silly.
Simply a problem of false premise: "Robots can do every job and do it without creating other jobs"

Just plain wrong.  If this was possible McDonalds would have 0 employees.

Not in the service industry, in production. They can do more jobs than they create, you need one mechanic to fix a robot, instead of 20 workers to make a car.
There is no one robot to make a car.  There are hundreds of 'robots', and still thousands of production line workers.  Not only that but you're missing the 50 programmers to write the code (which has to be updated constantly, no program is ever complete), the 100's of employees to build the robots and repair parts....etc..etc..

There are no fully automated production lines anywhere, about the closest you get is in clean room production however there are still a lot of people involved.

Your premise is wrong.  Period.
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assasin7
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« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2012, 03:14:37 PM »

Can someone point out some good articles regarding robots in the free market? Seems to be the one thing Rothbard never talked about. Although, the argument just seems silly.
Simply a problem of false premise: "Robots can do every job and do it without creating other jobs"

Just plain wrong.  If this was possible McDonalds would have 0 employees.

Not in the service industry, in production. They can do more jobs than they create, you need one mechanic to fix a robot, instead of 20 workers to make a car.
There is no one robot to make a car.  There are hundreds of 'robots', and still thousands of production line workers.  Not only that but you're missing the 50 programmers to write the code (which has to be updated constantly, no program is ever complete), the 100's of employees to build the robots and repair parts....etc..etc..

There are no fully automated production lines anywhere, about the closest you get is in clean room production however there are still a lot of people involved.

Your premise is wrong.  Period.

Yes that's true, but it still is a net loss for the economy, also capitalism relies on scarcity, which is why they destroy or lock up huge amounts of products, but that means they lose money with production. It also can't expand infinitely on a finite planet, which is why capitalism works so well on the internet, theirs an infinite amount of information. 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 03:18:00 PM by assasin7 » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2012, 12:14:39 AM »

1. Capitalism requires a slave class
No.This is an absolutely baseless assertion.
Quote
2. Capitalism will collapse, because the cheapest way to run a company is automation, meaning that over time their will be products and no one to buy them. So they will have to spread markets ie: invade other areas, which will suit part 1, by taking military prisoners)
This is absolutely beyond ridiculous.

Should we dig roads with spoons? Because using construction vehicles means at least 100 people go without work.

Economic theory says that there is an unlimited number of wants in the world, and all cannot be satisfied at the same time. So, people forgo consumption of lesser wants for greater ones. Or, forgo consumption all together in hopes of future returns. It takes time to acquire capital assets, the tools of production. This means that, say, 100 cars can be produced in an hour instead of 1. This creates wealth. The workers move on to satisfy other needs. The goods become cheaper for everyone. Since there is an unlimited amount of desire in the world, there will always be work to be done. The price system allows resources to satisfy the most urgent needs of society. The higher the price, the more costly the production/the less urgent the need.

If we ever reach a post scarcity economy where no one has to work because all needs and wants are met by machines, great. But that will not happen.



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« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2012, 12:19:42 AM »

assassin, if you are REALLY interested, read Chapter 7 of "Economics in One Lesson" called "the curse of machinery" here: http://www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson/#0.1_L8 . You need to read it. Before repeating anything on libcom, read it. Goddamn it, read it!  If you don't, you can never understand the capitalist point of view.

Better yet, read the whole book. It is insane not to if you want to talk economics with us.
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« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2012, 11:33:07 AM »

Wow Assassin... just...  wow...   
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MAM
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« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2012, 10:29:59 PM »

assassin7's "logic" is what one refers to colloquially as bullshit. Ancom's may be agianst the State but I seriously doubt any of them truely understand why the State is bad, and this ignorance will lead to their downfall, because they will recreate the State in their attempt to take shit from people, and they will either die in the attempt or die as the result of their victory takes hold.

I think Anthem by Rand does a fairly good job of pointing out the end results of the collectivist ideal.
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Gozutennou
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« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2012, 06:21:39 AM »

And in my ancap paradise ancoms could do basically whatever they want as long as they're not violencing on people.  But in their world, you can't have private property or accumulated capital as I understand it (could be totally wrong, my reading stopped at abbreviated Proudhon.)  So in an Ancom world, if I have nonviolently accumulated capital, how do you stop me from keeping it without organized, legitimized,

Ahh, the classical, " X can exist in paradise Y, but Y can't exist in paradise X" argument, i hear that so much that i don't dig it anymore, anarcho-communism wants to abolish the means of production...

Take this as an example: person a,b,c and d are ancoms, they live on an forgotton island somewhere in the oceaan, they began an commune and collectively own an means of production, then suddenly, an ancap guy comes at the other side of the island and starts a factory, 3 other ancaps work at the factory and build their houses from the trees of the island.

You guys know that anarchism is voluntary and non-violent (execpt in the revolution), what reason do either of the anarchist have to attack the other group of anarchists ?, none !  Grin
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MAM
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« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2012, 06:53:25 AM »

And in my ancap paradise ancoms could do basically whatever they want as long as they're not violencing on people.  But in their world, you can't have private property or accumulated capital as I understand it (could be totally wrong, my reading stopped at abbreviated Proudhon.)  So in an Ancom world, if I have nonviolently accumulated capital, how do you stop me from keeping it without organized, legitimized,

Ahh, the classical, " X can exist in paradise Y, but Y can't exist in paradise X" argument, i hear that so much that i don't dig it anymore, anarcho-communism wants to abolish the means of production...

Take this as an example: person a,b,c and d are ancoms, they live on an forgotton island somewhere in the oceaan, they began an commune and collectively own an means of production, then suddenly, an ancap guy comes at the other side of the island and starts a factory, 3 other ancaps work at the factory and build their houses from the trees of the island.

You guys know that anarchism is voluntary and non-violent (execpt in the revolution), what reason do either of the anarchist have to attack the other group of anarchists ?, none !  Grin


Hmmm.... The AnCaps have no reason to attack, though they would I'm sure want to trade with them. Are you telling me that ancoms want to collectivize property but if I choose to opt out I'm not going to be forced to hand over my property?
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