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Author Topic: Adam Kokesh: "Anarcho-Capitalists are the real anarchists"  (Read 27869 times)
SinCityVoluntaryist
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« on: May 04, 2012, 06:57:31 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgUZqNHGTwA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgUZqNHGTwA</a>

 Adam's response to the incident in Ohio.
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Anonymous Infowarrior
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2012, 08:52:38 PM »

Well someone isn't helping inter-anarchist relations get any better...

This is ridiculous, anarchism is only against state, and if any group of "anarchists" isn't truly anarchist, it's ancaps, because ancaps are an entirely recent phenomenon. Anarchism is a philosophy that has been around for a long time, and to exclude one group of anarchists from anarchism is ridiculous.
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Seth King
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2012, 09:23:43 PM »

Well someone isn't helping inter-anarchist relations get any better...

This is ridiculous, anarchism is only against state, and if any group of "anarchists" isn't truly anarchist, it's ancaps, because ancaps are an entirely recent phenomenon. Anarchism is a philosophy that has been around for a long time, and to exclude one group of anarchists from anarchism is ridiculous.

I agree. They're anarchists, albeit with a different philosophy and set of tactics.
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 09:55:48 PM »

"because ancaps are an entirely"

 That's not true. The ideas surrounding anarcho-capitalism have actually been around for longer than most people think. The reason it's considered such a new idea is because it didn't obtain mainstream attention until the 1970s, which was the decade Murray Rothbard popularized it.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 05:04:30 PM by BlackandGr9y » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 03:24:10 AM »

Early on, right after reading The Ethics of Liberty, I decided to fundamentally question anarcho-capitalism and I stumbled across this piece which gave me food for thought for a couple weeks.

http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/rothbard-we-must-therefore-conclude-that-we-are-not-anarchists

Correctly, the author (and Rothbard) note that the term "Anarchy" came from socialist european roots. Anarcho-Capitalism by comparison is a "new creation" (Rothbard's own essentially) which makes the battling over labels especially silly. Almost as dumb as arguing over who the "real patriots" are.

Who cares who the "real" anarchists are? If we as individuals believe in certain things (like NAP/etc) and can package our entire ideology into a single label or word, we're probably not deep enough to make useful arguments and be taken seriously in the first place.
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assasin7
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 08:34:54 PM »

Their are 2 kinds of ancoms:

big (A): formed in the 60s and seventies, organize in large federations, mainly theorists and speakers, have more Marxian influence, more internet access Chomsky types

small (A): newer, mainly 90s 00s, very global, main focus is forming the new society and seizing the day, an example would be occupy wall street, the idea was "this square is a microcosm of what the whole world should be." Form black blocs, if theirs a protest and cops might be violent, they dress in black and go armed for self defense, often squat places so that homeless can live their.
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2012, 10:09:42 AM »

Their are 2 kinds of ancoms:

big (A): formed in the 60s and seventies, organize in large federations, mainly theorists and speakers, have more Marxian influence, more internet access Chomsky types

small (A): newer, mainly 90s 00s, very global, main focus is forming the new society and seizing the day, an example would be occupy wall street, the idea was "this square is a microcosm of what the whole world should be." Form black blocs, if theirs a protest and cops might be violent, they dress in black and go armed for self defense, often squat places so that homeless can live their.

Well, keep in mind Kropotkin and company started theorizing about anarcho-communism in the 19th and early 20th centuries, so the theorists go back a while.

As to the video itself, I've seen this sort of exclusionary stuff from Kokesh for a while. He seems kind of like a Randroid minus the minarchism.
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assasin7
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2012, 12:42:56 PM »

yes, but the movement was crushed by world war 2, it had already been losing its great thinkers, Kropotkin and emma goldman. the american anarchists had been kicked out and destroyed as a movement during the red scare. then you've got this new society (spanish revolution) that gets destroyed. many of your leaders die in that battle, and your most fertile homelands (Russia, Spain, Italy, Germany) are taken over by authoritarians who crush your movements. then world war 2 (the life blood of the state) breaks out, like all wars of the pre200's decent is crushed, the sixties are your big chance, protests revolution, anti war is the life blood of anti statism.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2012, 10:11:19 PM »

Well someone isn't helping inter-anarchist relations get any better...

This is ridiculous, anarchism is only against state, and if any group of "anarchists" isn't truly anarchist, it's ancaps, because ancaps are an entirely recent phenomenon. Anarchism is a philosophy that has been around for a long time, and to exclude one group of anarchists from anarchism is ridiculous.

I agree. They're anarchists, albeit with a different philosophy and set of tactics.
But....He's going on the same path of anarchism that many of us took, and it wasn't until later that many of us began to accept ancom as "true" anarchism. So, without having watched the video, I would guess that I would be pleased with his progress so far, considering how recently he got off the minarchist bandwagon.
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2012, 12:35:15 PM »

Well someone isn't helping inter-anarchist relations get any better...

This is ridiculous, anarchism is only against state, and if any group of "anarchists" isn't truly anarchist, it's ancaps, because ancaps are an entirely recent phenomenon. Anarchism is a philosophy that has been around for a long time, and to exclude one group of anarchists from anarchism is ridiculous.

I agree. They're anarchists, albeit with a different philosophy and set of tactics.
But....He's going on the same path of anarchism that many of us took, and it wasn't until later that many of us began to accept ancom as "true" anarchism. So, without having watched the video, I would guess that I would be pleased with his progress so far, considering how recently he got off the minarchist bandwagon.
Sadly most ancoms aside from me are scared to death of ancaps. I've concluded that their "hatred"of ancaps is really just them being afraid of us because we are have more money, more politicians, and less punk loving-mohawk wearing-tattooed like crazy angry white kids.

On the other hand, I think that they are starting to open up to us, with mutualists beggining to interest ancoms in market driven anarchism
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 12:56:29 AM »

An coms are destructive, violent individuals, and the more I look at things, the more I realize that Adam is right. A cap is the only morale and rational stateless position. Ancom is a relic of the past that needs to be forgotten.
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assasin7
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 01:12:20 PM »

An coms are destructive, violent individuals, and the more I look at things, the more I realize that Adam is right. A cap is the only morale and rational stateless position. Ancom is a relic of the past that needs to be forgotten.

yea violent and destructive:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDdqIuMLGAE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDdqIuMLGAE</a>
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 01:49:55 PM by assasin7 » Logged

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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 03:38:14 PM »

They usually are violent and destructive. They go around breaking things and starting conflicts...because the government got reduced in size! Yes, protesting because their access to pillaged wealth is being reduced. Anarchists shouldn't riot when the government gets reduced or crippled due to a loss of credit channels...they should rejoice. Most people who consider themselves left anarchists are not anarchists at all. They are public sector workers (statists) who are mad about budget cuts.
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"I like to eat. Instead of a monarch I propose we have a Chef be final arbiter in matters. We'll call it anarcho-chefism."
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assasin7
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2012, 04:21:39 PM »

They usually are violent and destructive. They go around breaking things and starting conflicts...because the government got reduced in size! Yes, protesting because their access to pillaged wealth is being reduced. Anarchists shouldn't riot when the government gets reduced or crippled due to a loss of credit channels...they should rejoice. Most people who consider themselves left anarchists are not anarchists at all. They are public sector workers (statists) who are mad about budget cuts.

These people depend on the state, to destroy it without having anything to replace it with is lunacy, and would lead to chaos. You need to create alternatives then abolish, thats the way syndicalism works, create the union, which will replace the state.

Theirs a difference between free health care, and funding the military. if I had a choice between a social democratic state with no military, and an small government state with a huge military, I'd choose the former.

better movie:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO4RXG3SgtU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO4RXG3SgtU</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49mtCuWuOOo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49mtCuWuOOo</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8NodihIfOg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8NodihIfOg</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQdIR_h6Lek" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQdIR_h6Lek</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjm-aL3KXyY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjm-aL3KXyY</a>
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 04:48:56 PM by assasin7 » Logged

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LegesNullae
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 04:45:06 PM »

They go around breaking things and starting conflicts...because the government got reduced in size! Yes, protesting because their access to pillaged wealth is being reduced. Anarchists shouldn't riot when the government gets reduced or crippled due to a loss of credit channels...they should rejoice.

I'm not an an-com, nor am I a rioter. However, you've brought something up that I'd like to address. Not every reduction in statism is something that should be celebrated, because it may not actually be a reduction in statism. Let me explain. Take, for example, welfare for the poor. I think we can all agree that the bloated welfare state is terrible. However, that welfare, as crippling as it is, makes life livable for those most suffering under this current system of corporate capitalism. A large degree of statism was introduced when the corporations and politically favored industries were originally given their privileges. Logically, those with less wealth got screwed over. The welfare serves to counteract the negative effects of that privilege (even if not very effectively). To take away just the welfare before taking away the corporate privilege would be to allow the original statism to run uninhibited, and that shouldn't be celebrated.

Maybe you already know this and I'm just running on, but this is a concept that I think too few market anarchists understand.
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