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Author Topic: Anarcho-Monarchism: Your thoughts and theories  (Read 17983 times)
SinCityVoluntaryist
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« on: May 03, 2012, 03:30:55 PM »

 I've done some studying on anarcho-monarchism, a libertarian/anarchist philosophy that is virtually non-existence in the grand scheme of things. From what I've gathered, anarcho-monarchists support the existence of a market anarchist society, and believe that the private sector can provide goods and services better than the public sector. However, an-mons believe in the existence of a King or leader, but advocate this leader as a voluntary individual whose sole existence is meant to represent a sense of celebration and kinship in the souls of the men. In For a New Liberty, Murray Rothbard gives an example of a society like this. If I remember correctly, he uses Scotland as an example. Within the times of old, Scotland was the most advanced society in Europe. Though they had a king, his very existence was meant as a facilitator who would watch over meetings to make sure respect and order was kept in tact. Other than that, he could not make any legal choices whatsoever.

 Anarcho-monarchists also believe that societies should include kinship and faith within their inner workings. This had led many to label it a conservative-libertarian anarchist belief.

As a voluntaryist that also supports Ron Paul, I think it would be more accurate to label me an anarcho-monarchist than an-cap. My faith also justifies the label as well.

 I'm curious to know if there are any other an-mons here as well. If I'm not mistaken, Rothbardian is one, and there was another person that used the label as well.
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 04:20:38 PM »

 In case anyone is interested, I came across this site:
http://anarcho-monarchism.com/
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 05:58:17 PM »

I've never heard of Anarcho-Monarchism.   Would such a "king" even be necessary in a free society?   From your description, this "king" would be a powerless figurehead who represents the culture of the society, but has no purpose otherwise.   Would people obey or pay fealty to this king, even in a token manner?     
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 06:38:47 PM »

 Any relationship with the king would be completely voluntary in nature. If you want to show him monetary support, do so because you want to.

 And, yes, your description of the king is correct. If you want a better explanation, think of the king as an ambassador. If new people from another area visit, he could act as a welcoming party and introduce the individuals to the people.
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Distruzio
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 07:13:20 AM »

I'm an AnMon.
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 07:21:45 AM »

I that case, I don't see how this is fundamentally different from anarcho-capitalism.    This is just AnCap with an odd (to me) cultural quirk, there's no reason to come up with another name for it.   In fact, if England converted to anarcho-capitalism this is probably what you'd get, since they'd likely keep the royal family just for nostalgia/cultural reasons.     Since the "king" is a figurehead, you can have the same thing with any of the other flavors of anarcho-, given that the real economy and government (or lack thereof) adheres to whatever kind of anarchy is described by the name.   Coming up with a separate name for it might confuse the issue.
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Distruzio
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 07:26:01 AM »

I've never heard of Anarcho-Monarchism.   Would such a "king" even be necessary in a free society?   From your description, this "king" would be a powerless figurehead who represents the culture of the society, but has no purpose otherwise.   Would people obey or pay fealty to this king, even in a token manner?     

 Not only is AnMon anthropologically proven, it exists in the real world as expressed by the theocratic Papacy and the former caesaropapist Byzantine Empire. Also, the Spanish State can be interpreted, as defined by their constitution, as a statist attempt to build a psuedo-AnMon community. The Catholic Church (separate from the papal states) is a worldwide AnMonism as is the Eastern Orthodox Church.
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Distruzio
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2012, 07:28:23 AM »

I that case, I don't see how this is fundamentally different from anarcho-capitalism.    This is just AnCap with an odd (to me) cultural quirk, there's no reason to come up with another name for it.   In fact, if England converted to anarcho-capitalism this is probably what you'd get, since they'd likely keep the royal family just for nostalgia/cultural reasons.     Since the "king" is a figurehead, you can have the same thing with any of the other flavors of anarcho-, given that the real economy and government (or lack thereof) adheres to whatever kind of anarchy is described by the name.   Coming up with a separate name for it might confuse the issue.

Read this.
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 12:31:56 PM »

Sounds like there's more to it than I thought.
But all I really need to know is this: 

Can I say "No" to whatever the "monarch" wants without getting my stuff taken or being thrown into a cage?

Sounds like the answer is "yes", so I'm mostly fine with it.   I won't be identifying myself as an anarcho-monarchist because I don't fully understand the term.

I originally had a paragraph here about how I'm wary of leaders (even voluntarily followed ones), but I think I'd be preaching to the choir.   

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Distruzio
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 02:03:30 PM »

Sounds like there's more to it than I thought.
But all I really need to know is this: 

Can I say "No" to whatever the "monarch" wants without getting my stuff taken or being thrown into a cage?

Sounds like the answer is "yes", so I'm mostly fine with it.   I won't be identifying myself as an anarcho-monarchist because I don't fully understand the term.

I originally had a paragraph here about how I'm wary of leaders (even voluntarily followed ones), but I think I'd be preaching to the choir.   



Well, the issue with leaders isn't whether they tell you to do things that you don't want tohear, its
Whether what they say is ethical and part of the covenant you have made with them. The State does NOT act ethically as each decision comes with the threat of violence and no one anywhere has ever made a covenant with a State unless they have applied for citizenship. A totem monarch, however, could not violate these two requirements easily.
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Euler
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 04:25:24 PM »

Could someone give me a quick and dirty like 2 paragraph explanation of why this arrangement would be desirable over a ancap society lacking a monarch?
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Distruzio
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2012, 03:40:06 AM »

Could someone give me a quick and dirty like 2 paragraph explanation of why this arrangement would be desirable over a ancap society lacking a monarch?

Sorry for the long pause between responses, I work a lot!

Anarcho-capitalism is de facto a form of social organization that is voluntarily segregative rather than coercively integrative. The Anarcho-monarchist is an Ancap, but prefers a voluntary community with an anti-egalitarian, anti-democratic, anti-statist, and anti-corporatist, conservative-libertarian bent that stresses tradition, responsibility, liberty, virtue, localism, market anarchy, voluntary segregation and personalism, along with familial, religious, and regional identity rooted in private property and personified by a totem monarch.

If you can get down with that, then you're in. If not, then *shrug*. Monarchy aint for everyone.
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LegesNullae
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« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2012, 09:42:06 AM »

I'd like to start out by saying that the (A) symbol with the top hat and bow tie on the website that BlackandGr9y posted is absolutely adorable.

On Anarcho-Monarchism itself, I have some issues. As for the "right-wing" cultural values (which aren't for everyone), I can see the appeal, but the totem monarch is a mystery to me. Why would such a figurehead be necessary? Couldn't individuals help other individuals, without either party being universally recognized as a voluntary "big man?"

As for a stateless monarch "guiding" the people, that situation would appear to be more of a voluntarily funded state than an anarchistic society (in my opinion, at least). The amount of faith placed in this one person in order to see him/her as the wise final authority would seem to me the same kind of faith placed in democratic governments today as the wise final authorities.

Hopefully I haven't misrepresented An-Mons in any way (I am, after all, no expert in their philosophy). If I have, please feel free to correct my misinterpretations.
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"It is easy to be conspicuously 'compassionate' if others are being forced to pay the cost." -Murray N. Rothbard
Distruzio
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« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2012, 08:16:02 PM »

If its a voluntary arrangement, it isn't a State. If the voluntarily submitted to authority is not the judicial monpolist, it isn't a State. Ergo, the totem monarch is in complete compliance with AnCap ethical precepts.

Therefore submission to a totem monarch instead of a Republic would merely be a matter of personal preference as though one were choosing between Pepsi and Coke since neither forms of govt would be the supreme judicial monopolist. Remember, AnCap is not "no" legal authorities - it is many legal authorities. The left anarchists are delusional to desire a world in which man is abstractly viewed separated from all external influence. We view man in the practical light of being made unique and supremely sovereign BECAUSE of those external influences and his freedom to choose which to emphasize and when.
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Mark Stoval
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2012, 06:25:21 AM »

Anarchy simply means "no rulers". A monarch is a ruler or he/she is not a monarch. Hence "Anarcho-monarchism" is a contradiction in terms.

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