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Author Topic: American Independence Day Celebrations  (Read 12194 times)
FormerlyBrainwashed
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« on: July 05, 2010, 01:12:50 AM »



As is generally the case anymore... When I open my mouth around family members (none of which share my particular world-view) I end up being labeled as a buzz killer or pot stirrer… neither of which is ever my intention. My goal is to invoke rational discussion for the purpose of exploring reality and waning through the muck and mire which constitutes much of what society (at large) accepts as truth.
It is funny though… They (my family) consider me to be outspoken, when the reality is that I withhold commenting most of the time as a matter of choosing my battles. I can generally predict the outcome of a debate before I enter in to one with them, so I usually consider whether or not it will be a waste of time before I comment on many of the things that they say.

Today, one of them mentioned something about how American’s are set apart from other nations in the world when they celebrate their Independence Day because Americans do not do so by way of rolling tanks and military parades around Washington in a show of force (blah blah blah)… Instead, peaceful and kind spirited Americans enjoy family picnics and patriotic parties and the like to honor those who have given their all rather than expecting displays of power and might on the part of the govt and military.

I commented on how the rest of that story should be stated as what it really is. That is, that the poor people who DO have American tanks, planes, and bombs in their neighborhoods and territories reach across all the corners of the globe. So while American families sit back patting themselves on the back during their family picnics, simultaneously, the fact is that their empire continues to grow and therefore invalidates any such self-righteous claims.

Man – When you take away an American’s ability to pat themselves on the back, you may as well go swat a hornet’s nest, the effects will be the same. My family is no different. 

I don’t get into the mythical hoopla that goes with American Independence Day celebrations because I find the whole event to be rather depressing. To me, it is a day when millions of dupes come out in all their brainwashed glory to celebrate a whole host of distortions of reality.

Another example from the day is the countless times I heard the Lee Greenwood version of “I’m proud to be an American” playing on many peoples’ radios today.

It goes something like this:

“I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free. And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me….”
Most will hear/read this and think it’s just wonderful. I’m sure whoever wrote it (Lee or whomever) didn’t mean to be such a dupe when they wrote it (most dupes don’t aspire to be dupes), nevertheless it is so hard to keep my mouth shut when I literally see people get teary eyed over songs like this without even being willing to admit how ridiculous its lyrics are.

“Where at least I know I’m free.” – Well that’s a joke but I’m sure there are plenty of so-called “conservatives” and “tea-partiers” who eat that up. They truly believe that “if only the government got back to the original intent of the founders, everything would be alright.” – Their worship of the “founders” and whatever they penned as [binding] on all “American citizens” is profoundly absurd!
“And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.” – Another absurdity. Liberty is an innate right of human kind. It is absolutely true that most persons born into the world are oppressed and therefore do not experience true freedom; but freedom is not “granted” to individuals, it is only violently stolen from those whose liberty is hindered. Men cannot grant/give/offer that which they do not create/produce. It is also true that people may in fact fight to retain/reclaim certain liberties for themselves and/or others… But it is false to suggest that men can “give” that which they do not possess.

Why the fuss? Because it amounts to more smoke and mirrors to hide the true nature of the State and its desire to rule over naturally free individuals. If liberty is taught to be a gift of the State and its police force (military or otherwise), then individuals will continue to look towards the State in [dependence] of it, rather than independence and reliance on themselves for personal defense and personal accountability within whatever voluntary associations they enter in to.
None of this is intended to be a stab at military veterans or anything like that. It is simply a matter proper identification of the true nature of things.

As for my family members who view me as the black sheep in the bunch… Oh well… I never was one to set out on any sort of popularity contest!

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Seth King
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2010, 01:56:40 AM »

I don't know if you intended for any of this post to be humorous or not, but I cracked up all the way through it.

As for your family and any of the others that don't share your worldview, the simply truth is they haven't read 1/10 of what you have. They have no idea what the hell you're talking about. That's not to pardon their behavior, however. If they really cared they could always ask you where you got your worldview. If they know but choose not to learn it for themselves, then shame on them.

This is why you should strongly consider moving to New Hampshire. Forget the title of the Free State Project. You don't need to sign up for that if you don't want to. The fact is, there are a ton of agorists/anarchists in New Hampshire. Your kind will be understood without explanation. Doesn't that sound nice, for once?
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FormerlyBrainwashed
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2010, 09:00:07 AM »


A little bit of humor was intended, but in all seriousness it is very difficult to stand by and bite my lip while my family (and so many others) sips on the cup of rotten milk that they are accustomed to. Talk about a severe case of the blind leading the blind!

I know that when I talk to family they think I am speaking a different language. That is why I hold back as much as I do; I am not going to impose rationality on them as to do so would be contradictory to my stated position. That doesn't ease the burden though. I feel as if I have life changing information (to share, not impose upon them) that is so simple to grasp if they'd only be willing to THINK!

At any rate, it's sad because I do care about them.

The FSP has nothing to do with the improbability of me relocating to New Hampshire. I have no disdain for NH nor anyone active within the FSP. I simply find some of their tactics to be inconsistent with true liberty. The reason why I will likely never move to NH (though I wouldn’t say that it is an impossibility) is again because of family. To do so would necessarily mean leaving my mate and children… something I am not willing to do. Her value of living near her parents is much more important to her than moving a thousand miles away from them all just so can be closer to liberty oriented individuals.
She has more gain (in her mind) maintaining the status quo. Her (their) opinion of me is that I spend too much time focusing on “worldly” concerns.

So – The prospect of me relocating to NH is very limited at the moment.  Wink



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Seth King
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2010, 01:19:15 PM »

Does this mean that they are Christians? Christians are almost impossible to talk to. Jesus will save us, there is nothing we can do, so better to just go with the flow. That type of thinking boggles my mind. I know there are plenty of liberty activist Christians out there. I need to talk to them more and ask them why they are so different from the rest of their brethren.
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FormerlyBrainwashed
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2010, 02:16:44 PM »



Bingo... And good observation! Usage of the term "worldly" was subtle but should have been an easy one to catch for the careful reader.

It is an important point to bring up.

The reason they (Christian Liberty Activists) are different from the rest is because they view the idea of individuals as any sort of "sovereign" as contrary to their worldview. This may not be the place for theological debates, but mix in their whole network of presuppositions and it explains why they are unwilling to think through these issues. It is not as though they cannot, rather, they choose not to because they are taught that 'thinking' is foolish.

Add in the various eschatological (end times) presuppositions, various soteriological perspectives within the differing theologies (Arminianism vs. Calvanism, etc.), hermeneutical distinctives, and all the rest... And it is a wonder that they (the church at large) have "faith" in anything at all! That is where the biggest blank-out of all lies though; in that even when they are confronted with rational thinking, they intentionally and deliberately pretend that there is no value in reason. The reality is that they DO use rational thinking for some things, but not others (not areas of thought that challenge whatever version of faith they subscribe to). By what standard do they ever invoke rationality into some things, but not in matters of their faith? This is of course a rhetorical question. They pretend to have it both ways, and when something doesn't make sense to them... No worries, that's just because of their limited knowledge which cannot comprehend an infinite god. I understand why they would say that but it fails to account for clear inconsistencies and contradictions in their similar-but-different, yet perfecft/infallible systems.

Can't find a sensible answer for something, just chalk it up to faith. If someone speaks to them about anything that flies in the face of their presuppositions, they don't even give it consideration... It is labeled as worldly, confused, blasphemous, and all sorts of other lovely terms.

This, by the way, is not limited to Christianity; organized religion in general does a fair job of using the same brainwashing tactics.

One more very important thing that Christians (even those of Libertarian leanings) subscribe to... They love to invoke Romans chapter 13 where it describes "all authority on Earth" as being established by god. As such, even men who commit the most dastardly acts against others are excused because "they are just doing what they are told."

As long as "people of faith" are content to pass off individual accountability, they cast their lots against those who seek to enjoy unadulterated liberty. Their unreserved sanctioning of the State directly impacts both statists and non-statists alike.

I once had a discussion with someone who tried to explain why all military service members are exempt from accountability for their actions in the "line of duty" (he even said this was true for men such as Hitler’s SS Army, and the like) because they are subject to the god-given authority of their superiors. That if they commit an act of force/violence against another it is the burden of the ruler "appointed" over them (even though such so-called rulers are generally self-appointed), but that the individual actor is free and clear as long as they were only "following orders." Of course all of this is utterly ridiculous, but it is a common position nonetheless.

As Ayn Rand aptly described in her famed novel Atlas Shrugged, “...But the damned and the guiltiest among you are the men who had the capacity to know, yet chose to blank out reality, the men who were willing to steel their intelligence into cynical servitude to force…”



 
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Seth King
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2010, 03:08:03 PM »

There is such a thing as Christian Anarchists who have a different interpretation of Romans 13. What is your take on Christian Anarchism?
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FormerlyBrainwashed
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2010, 03:26:01 PM »



You are correct, however I would guess that most professing evangelicals do not subscribe to the ideas of so-called Christian-Anarchism but instead believe that Romans 13 is as described in my last post. Wasn't a categorical statement, only a generalization.

In either case - I am not sure how anyone could rationalize the notion of Christian Anarchism. The two terms are contradictory to each other. Christians may very well suggest that they do not accept any "man-made" governments but they still declare that the legitimate government is found in the kingdom of heaven which is headed by Jesus who is "lord over all and sits at the right hand of god." Moreover, they are "subject" to the laws of their bible even while in "this life."

So which is it? Again... they wish to have it both ways. Christian Anarchism is therefore an oxymoron in a literal sense.

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Seth King
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2010, 03:35:07 PM »

I would be curious to see what a Christian Anarchist thinks about the claim that it is an oxymoron. Hopefully, someday, one or more will join this forum and clue me in.

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FormerlyBrainwashed
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2010, 03:46:56 PM »

Not a whole lot they could say about it.

If the term anarchy is derived from the Greek word "anarchos" which means "without rulers," then there isn't really anything debatable about my statement. That is unless they wish to deny the alleged source of their belief system (the bible) which declares all humans to be subject to his "rule."

As you said though... I'd also welcome the perspective of others.

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Seth King
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2010, 04:03:09 PM »

My definition of anarchy is an absence of any form of political authority. I fail to see any contradiction between God and anarchy. Christianity and anarchy, on the other hand, may be incompatible if Christians feel that government is the work or will of God.

Although it seems to me that there are Christians who feel government is NOT the work of God, which opens the door to anarchy. Not all Christians interpret things the same just as not all anarchists interpret things the same. Many anarchists find anarchy to be incompatible with capitalism, yet another thought I have a hard time wrapping my head around.
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FormerlyBrainwashed
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2010, 04:07:12 PM »


This reminds me of what I was saying earlier in this thread about the family member who was talking about the tanks and parades and what sets apart American celebrations from others. When the error of her statement was pointed out she said "well that might be what it means to you, but this is what it means to me....."

Unfortunately 'reality' doesn't work that way. Reality exists independent of what one might wish things to be.

In like manner, the reality of the contradiction of the terms Christian and anarchy is what it is. That some may ignore what the root meaning of words within a language are is of little consequence to the truth. 
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Seth King
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2010, 04:14:25 PM »

Is Christianity objective or subjective? If it is objective, then interpretations other than the truth are wrong. But if Christianity is subjective, then it is open to interpretation. I am curious if I were to ask a Christian whether they felt their religion were objective or subject what they would say. I would also be interested in what 100 different Christians would say.
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FormerlyBrainwashed
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2010, 04:17:05 PM »


Fair points. However, I am not even speaking about "god" or anything to do with god. I am specifically dealing with religious 'systems' which purport rule over human kind. 

Again - the root meaning of the term anarchy is not limited to a ruling "class," but [without] rule altogether. 

All this simply to point out (in response to your previous question) why I think it is difficult for Christians to absorb information that explains true liberty. It is fundamentally antithetical to their worldview because they do not view mankind as autonomous. 

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FormerlyBrainwashed
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« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2010, 04:37:09 PM »


Is Christianity objective or subjective? If it is objective, then interpretations other than the truth are wrong. But if Christianity is subjective, then it is open to interpretation. I am curious if I were to ask a Christian whether they felt their religion were objective or subject what they would say. I would also be interested in what 100 different Christians would say.

I don't think they really have a firm grasp on what objectivity even means. The biblical doctrine of scripture as being devinely inspired, infalible, inerrant, etc., might give the illusion that they believe it to be objective. Problem is, the basis of these assumptions is the text itself. It declares for itself its own authority. There is nothing objective about that... It is a rather flagrant example of circular reasoning.

They certainly would not claim it to be subjective because it would reduce the (alleged) devine supremacy of their system into nothing more than fallible stories written by men with no "other worldly" influence. But since their claims are based on faith and circular reasoning, it is easy to identify the lack of objectivity in their system.



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Seth King
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2010, 03:38:09 PM »

Too bad we don't have more people on this forum. I would love to hear a retort to that. More and more people are joining every day though. They just haven't commented yet. Soon, hopefully.
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