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Author Topic: A personal, philosophical question that I want to ask you guys  (Read 14119 times)
Seth King
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 09:01:55 PM »

I wouldn't let the state deter you from doing something you want to do. I'm going to be an electrician after school and I'll have to deal with all those licenses and regulations, but fuck it. It's what I want to do.

No chance of going agorist?

You don't want to let the state deter you of your passions. In my case it does appear that the state is in the way of my passions, but I don't think there is much to do about that. Let me explain.

As happy as I would be doing physics research the rest of my life my true passion is space. My goal has been to be an astronaut for quite some time. Up until 2005 I was on track to become one. But around the time I left school I realized that the state run space program was a dead end.

I'd always been a libertarian but had to reconcile my support for NASA by justifying it as defense spending. When Bush promised to put a man on Mars by the year 2020 I was excited because it would mean that I would be 38 at that age, the exact age of Neil Armstrong when he set foot on the Moon.

Eventually, I realized that the promise of landing on Mars would not come to fruition like pledged and began to take a more sobering look at NASA. Even before NASA started to get scaled back and announced its intention to ground the shuttle program I realized where things were headed. The space program was heading towards the private sector. Problem is that the state is destroying the economy so bad that there is so little chance of the private sector doing anything near what it could or should. So, I came to the conclusion that in order for the private sector to thrive in space we were going to need to abolish the state first.

In my hope of hopes the state will be abolished sooner rather than later, giving me enough time to put my full energies back into space ambitions. It's a roundabout way of doing things but it must be done.

I don't know if that will help you in your journey or not. Just a story I felt like telling.

You have a point. I have a better chance of working off the books as an electrician than you do in a privatized space exploration group I suppose Tongue


Actually, I highly suspect that in order for private space programs to really get going they'll start off with space tourism. First, it will be quick up and down flights. Then there will be earth orbits. Followed by space hotels. That will last a while until somebody builds a hotel on the Moon.

I think we'll see these things in our lifetimes. Just have to get rid of you know who first.

I'm really excited about this space tourism business. Did you (or anyone else) watch Stossel's "No They Can't" special? It got me really jazzed when they talked about it, and how in the future a trip into space would cost the same as plane tickets. Anarchist moon colony anyone?

No, I didn't watch the whole show. Gave up after a few minutes because I thought it would just be the same old spiel. Going back to watch right now.
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Seth King
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 09:28:37 PM »

Where was that debate David posted by Walter and Gary? I'm on Gary's side on this one. College is bunk.


http://dailyanarchist.com/forum/index.php/topic,885.0.html
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helio
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 09:30:03 PM »

Would it be agorism if a bunch of anarchist engineers get into the starship construction business?
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dpalme
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 09:33:45 PM »

I would say yes. . . yup.
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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 07:31:02 AM »

Would it be agorism if a bunch of anarchist engineers get into the starship construction business?

Alright, put me down for one, I'm all up for getting off this farm. Hrm, I wonder what the powers that be are going to do when they hear their cattle are building a space rocket to freedom.

Is my spaceship ready yet?!   
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2012, 11:31:17 PM »

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What I would probably end up doing is working for someone that owns a private practice, much like Dr. Paul. Small, flexible, and probably not nearly as much BS from the state.

Would a small operation need an administrator?  Dr. Paul didn't accept medicare or medicaid IIRC, and I believe that is where most of the costs come from for administration; compliance.

@Seth

Maybe we can strike a deal with the statists,

"We'll let you keep earth without any problems, but pay for us to go to Mars and we'll call it even." =)

I like it. I like it! I can see it now. Libertarians colonize and terraform Mars, making it paradise. Then the Earth bureaucrats arrive and create a stamp tax. Then a man by the name of Thomas Splaine writes a book entitled Common Logic and mentions how plentiful Manna grows on Mars and how the Martian colonists should declare their independence. The Martians win, yet 200 years later somehow Manna has been banned.  Sad
+1
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kunkmiester
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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2012, 11:43:27 PM »

I wouldn't let it stop you, but to a great extent, I doubt the efficacy of spending nearly ten years in school.  Get a degree in nursing or EMT or something like that, get a few years of experience, then start going agorist with that.  With a reputation in the above-board practice, you can offer under-the-counter work reliably, and people will be less concerned about licensing than ability--which your regular work would provide reference for.  Fairly tricky balancing the two, but ours is a harder path.
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2012, 09:45:49 AM »

Actually it's 11+ years in school (assuming you don't finish undergrad early). 4 for undergrad. 4 for med school. 3-5 for residency etc, depending on specialty. It's a long road. Once you're through it, you have a 0% chance of going agorist. I'm NOT telling you to not do it. Just make sure you understand that after going $300-400K or more in debt and spending 11+ years training, you will NOT have the nerve to risk your license by going agorist.

My observation was that a lot of people tried to go "premed" as a way of avoiding the job market. They just feared the fact that college graduates don't find work as easily as they thought. So med school seemed like the way to calm their own fears and satisfy their family.

Of course, if you're one of the few who is doing it for the right reasons, then the observations I've pointed out thus far won't actually deter you. If you are legitimately interested in medicine for medicine's sake, then go for it. One thing you don't want to do is take a half-ass level of commitment towards the goal. If you suspect you'll waver and get nervous about the plan 3 years in with 8 years to go, then it's not worth starting.

As for the intelligence required to become a doctor, it's probably not what you think. It gets a lot of hype, like somehow premed students are the smartest at university. This is far, far, far from the truth. To get into med school you need to be good at, or at least able to tolerate, memorizing long lists. Reasoning ability is not all that important, and that's what I consider to be "intelligence." I took a course once that was focused on molecular biology and human biochem. It was all students who wanted to become doctors. At one point we had to study the rates at which different things would bind, and inhibitors and what not. It was a simple model where you inverted some variables and ended up with linear relationships. Yup, drawing lines by figuring out slopes and intercepts. All the students freaked out because they "weren't math people" (extra note: they were all upperclassmen). Math is the quintessential benchmark you can use to measure someone's reasoning ability. These people were so far from the best and brightest I was disgusted.

Most of them just wanted their government license to a guaranteed large income, and didn't really care that the money came from the fact that the AMA and the gov't team up to ration healthcare. They told themselves they "help people" and that was the end of it. Too bad the AMA exists to do the opposite.

Anyways, like I said before, if you really want to do it, because it's your passion or something, then you will end up their regardless of what I say. And that's fine. Some people were meant to do it, and do so despite all the BS they have to tolerate along the way. Unfortunately, the people who would make the best doctors are likely deterred by the system of bullshit in place. So if you are willing to tolerate it, then more power to you.
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SinCityVoluntaryist
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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2012, 06:31:00 PM »

 I'm not going for this to become a doctor. I already know that I wouldn't be able to handle the complexities of med school. It's just too difficult for me to accomplish. However, I'm still interested in the medical field, and I've always wanted to experience the world of business at the same time. Thus, what better way to do then through medical administration, right? Hell, I don't even have to work for the government (nor do I want to). As I said earlier, I plan on going into the private sector. Consulting firm, anyone?
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JustSayNoToStatism
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2012, 09:17:45 AM »

I'm not going for this to become a doctor. I already know that I wouldn't be able to handle the complexities of med school. It's just too difficult for me to accomplish. However, I'm still interested in the medical field, and I've always wanted to experience the world of business at the same time. Thus, what better way to do then through medical administration, right? Hell, I don't even have to work for the government (nor do I want to). As I said earlier, I plan on going into the private sector. Consulting firm, anyone?
You should ask around and try to set up a time to speak with someone who does exactly what you are interested in doing. Start asking well-connected people you know, and if that fails try to call up someone who manages a hospital. In your meeting, ask what they did, and what they would recommend you do. What should you study? Do you get a BBA? How do you get a focus on healthcare that makes you stand out from the horde of students with BBAs? Can you get either BBA or MBA with health-management specialization somewhere?
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« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2012, 04:48:09 PM »

If going into a field where the government has overreached its bounds makes you a traitor to anarcho capitalism than anyone who works is a traitor. So no do whatever you want man.
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helio
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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2012, 11:57:59 AM »

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If going into a field where the government has overreached its bounds makes you a traitor to anarcho capitalism than anyone who works is a traitor. So no do whatever you want man.

Well said.

Statism depends on fear.  Don't fear pursuing your dreams.  If you let them make the choice for you, your liberty has been lost.
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MAM
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« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2012, 03:34:04 PM »

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If going into a field where the government has overreached its bounds makes you a traitor to anarcho capitalism than anyone who works is a traitor. So no do whatever you want man.

Well said.

Statism depends on fear.  Don't fear pursuing your dreams.  If you let them make the choice for you, your liberty has been lost.
Thanks man, being new and all I appreciate the positive feed back.
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