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1  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Everybody must get stoned!!! on: November 07, 2012, 02:19:01 PM
This is a step forward. I'm in WA and I didn't vote, but this is the Rockwellian strat of moving forward incrementally. Its easy to be cynical about stuff like this, but its for the best.

Its not just that its something *we* already knew was legitimate has gained official (quasi-official) legitimacy . Its that something legitimate that was once strongly condemned widely and officially will now be widely recognized as harmless and beneficial. Any opportunity for "normals" to see that the state is arbitrary is great. And rarely will it be so potent. Most Americans are fine with war because its a complete abstraction. It doesn't touch any part of their life. Its an emotional fear-based reaction to incomplete information. 

But the first time some red-blooded R voter smokes a joint and realizes he's been unreasonably whining about "drug culture" it will be a powerful message. No moralizing, no thinking, pure chemical reaction. Its especially potent since alcohol is practically ubiquitous. Thus providing an easy comparison. Alcohol abuse is dramatically more painful and destructive than smoking too much pot. While I have yet to try pot, I already don't drink much because of the ill effects. In this way I have very much in common with "normals", so if pot is even mildly pleasurable (and it can be made into brownies how can it not be) people will have a positive experience they can compare to a potentially negative experience.

I'm optimistic.
2  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Anti-War Sissies on: October 01, 2012, 11:09:15 AM
The truth to a lot of this can be found in the stupid or evil question.  The nasty truth is that they're probably the same thing. Your average enlisted person fresh out of high school does not "understand" what they're getting into. I knew intellectually when I joined I'd be a part of the organization that killed people. However, that concept was never critiqued or challenged or digested. And honestly it was a caveat. The things that did influence me and do influence most are a steady paycheck, good benefits, its an "honored" position. The last one is what gets most people. They think about things they can understand, money, security and social validation. Not abstractions like killing or even death. Which most pampered westerners are only vaguely familiar with.

The killing is an abstraction. Even the meat-heads who join intent on killing people have no idea what they're getting into. When they actually engage in the killing they'll have to re-evaluate the killing part.  Most will hate it. Most people aren't good at killing people. Murdering people. You have to dress it up in the social validation mentioned earlier for everyone but sociopaths.

Its easy to say "they're bad because they kill" but they're closer to animals than people in this way. They are killing without critical analysis. Lions don't feel guilt, they could not understand the concept.  Your average normal who thinks he's a hero because he kills brown children thinks that because society and the government told him. He has not analyzed that himself.

Now, I'm not saying this to excuse my time in the Air Force. Because I feel this is far more damning. I was such an irresponsible person that I helped kill people for money without thought.

I have a more difficult time understanding military officers, especially those that go to the academies, or cops, or lawyers. All these groups are intimately involved in the details of murder and coercion. I feel they have less excuse for not knowing better.

But yeah, TLDR, a binary universe with the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire is not real. It would be easier in many ways. But the catch is that *stupid is evil*. Not thinking and not self-critiquing is the root of evil.
3  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Anti-War Sissies on: September 27, 2012, 12:31:13 PM
Smiley
I love it, you guys are keeping me on my toes.  I know *now* that Marx and Bolivar were much different people than they have been portrayed. But history is just the stories people with presses tell us. And had I been able to accept the concept of subjective history at 17 perhaps i would have been more critical of the dogma I was ingesting.

Marx was kind of a weird gypsy trying to tell economic future without much economics. I don't really hate him. He's just weird.  Bolivar is more difficult.  SA was dealing with some really messed up stuff, and him and Santander had some "noble" goals. But yes, he's got very little to do with Chavez's Bolivar.
4  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Anti-War Sissies on: September 27, 2012, 12:18:57 PM
Quote
A Marxist? They hate the military, its the imperialist fist of the capitalist class.
Not really. That was just a blind in the early days. Guys like Jay Lovestone were in love with the military-spy class; in fact it's Commies who did the most to build the NeoCon/Post-War military hegemony.

Marxism is inherently religious bullshit; and like all religious nonsense it will adapt itself to reflect whatever confused idiocy has worked itself into the brains of the convert.

Mostly this.  Plus I was about as well read as a 17 year old idiot could be. Plus, I was exposed a lot of Latin American "Bolivarian" nonsense. So glorious revolution, etc etc. It really came down to glorifying the state. I remember the disdain I had for "business" the only honorable jobs were in government, and having a military background helps you there. That was as much of an angle as I had. Makes me retch now.

5  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Constitution of Delusion on: September 26, 2012, 03:14:38 PM
I was apolitical, I never really had any specific views until I was an anarchist. As, really, people should be because you don't have a right to an opinion in ignorance. The trouble with most people is not that they are oblivious and stupid; it's that they believe anyway.

Amen. The easiest way to terminate a discussion about politiks/policy/moraliy/econ with a normal statist type is ask them to explain where their beliefs come from, or how they all line up together. Also, how they happen to line up perfectly with one party or another. Coincidence?  They usually shut down and freak out.

Truth is most people don't care about overall ideological consistency or even in a singular issue. Normals need to *belong* so bad that politiks is just another club. Its an "important" one too. Tribalism and what not.
Yep. This is what makes a quasi-Objectivist into something of a misanthrope; or to put it another way a Mr. A into a Rorsasch. Once you realise the actual nature of man as a species you realise that reason is more or less an accident; more to be abused than used. Anyone with sense and integrity is a freak, and is treated as such by the gibbering bonobos on television.

I agree. I've mentioned the Libertarian Depression, where you are seeing that the "celestial" institutions are failing and no one cares, and as a minarchist you can't see a way out. That way ends up being Anarchism.

But there is an Anarchist Depression phase too. Its when you really realize that its human nature that's failing and not institutions, which aren't even real.  However, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm certainly not totally there. I'm not sure I can, among my ancap friends I joke about my extreme lack of a psychological immune system.  Getting on reddit and seeing what passes for informed political opinions does mental damage to me.  But reading into the MyersBriggs test and understanding some people are extremely limited in certain areas. And also honestly admitting I (as a modern American) am dramatically conflating and complicating "happiness". Has made things easier.

I've met Ancaps or more accurately post-ancaps, lets just call them "People" because they're some of the few who I consider fully functional examples of humans, who are happy, productive, wealthy but more importantly *aware AND unconcerned*. That only happens once you see the failures of institutions and humans in general and turn your gaze on yourself. At that point you have mostly exhausted what you can do to improve your lot in life.
6  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Anti-War Sissies on: September 26, 2012, 01:51:10 PM
I agree with OP and I'm a vet. Truth is I'm not like most of you guys who had the brains to figure "it" out. I signed up as a completely naive statist, marxist actually. Joining the military was "honorable" because people told me it was. I was AF and on an intel plane so my hands are bloodless but not my conscience. I got a medal one day while on the ground and they couldn't tell me why exactly. The internal obfuscation in the DoD is at comically perverse levels. When I put together that something I did may have got someone killed I was physically ill. I still remember getting drunk on sambuca and vomitting and crying. It was my last deployment and I became admin for the rest of my time in. My closest AF friends know why I quit and some of them mostly get it.  But the money is good. I struggle with my continued relationship with them.

Like voting, and party politics, and for many just regular hamburgers. They don't mind their small part of that system, ignoring larger,obvious, inevitable repercussions. They enjoy the hamburger but they don't want to think about the cow. Or its grisly death. Some people get it and are cool with it. Most maintain extreme cognitive dissonance.

I don't know if people are just dumber now in modern days their brains softened by Brave New World style comfort. Opinions are not only provided they're jammed down peoples throats. No one has to think about shit.  OR most people (including myself for a large portion of my life) are just simpletons. Happy to accept what is given without question. Like mental patients and pills in paper cups.  I don't know.

I know with extreme exceptions I do not associate with military, especially combat types. I have yet to meet a cop I'll make an exception for. And I was(tragically) very involved in the political campaign scene and my friends from there look increasingly like amoral parasites.

The catch is (like the Daily Show skit)  Are they stupid or evil?  Which one is right? Which one makes life easier to live for you (us)?
7  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Constitution of Delusion on: September 26, 2012, 01:31:04 PM
I was apolitical, I never really had any specific views until I was an anarchist. As, really, people should be because you don't have a right to an opinion in ignorance. The trouble with most people is not that they are oblivious and stupid; it's that they believe anyway.

Amen. The easiest way to terminate a discussion about politiks/policy/moraliy/econ with a normal statist type is ask them to explain where their beliefs come from, or how they all line up together. Also, how they happen to line up perfectly with one party or another. Coincidence?  They usually shut down and freak out.

Truth is most people don't care about overall ideological consistency or even in a singular issue. Normals need to *belong* so bad that politiks is just another club. Its an "important" one too. Tribalism and what not.
8  General Category / General Discussion / Re: There are some people who really want us to vote... on: September 26, 2012, 01:27:30 PM
From the article "Why Vote?":

Quote
...Why would an economist be embarrassed to be seen at the voting booth? Because voting exacts a cost - in time, effort, lost productivity - with no discernible payoff except perhaps some vague sense of having done your "civic duty." As the economist Patricia Funk wrote in a recent paper, "A rational individual should abstain from voting."

The odds that your vote will actually affect the outcome of a given election are very, very, very slim. This was documented by the economists Casey Mulligan and Charles Hunter, who analyzed more than 56,000 Congressional and state-legislative elections since 1898...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/magazine/06freak.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www

Great link Tom, I'm going to get some serious mileage out of that one.
9  General Category / General Discussion / Re: There are some people who really want us to vote... on: September 25, 2012, 11:43:48 AM
I was just coming to DA to post this. I'm really enjoying it. I don't think most of us are voters but I'm sure there are a few.


http://www.mediaite.com/online/breitbart-writer-begs-libertarians-to-vote-romney-sorry-it-aint-going-to-work/

I want to meet a Republican who mistakes me as a libertarian in general (especially big L libertarian) and wants me to vote just so I can walk them through how insanely they've misjudged the situation.

I've got my first actual *gasp* of the election season when I told someone I don't vote because its immoral.  I'm going for a gasp+dropped wine glass next.
10  General Category / General Discussion / Science says Rs are mystics, Ds are sissies and "Ls" are logical robots on: September 24, 2012, 02:22:30 PM
http://reason.com/blog/2012/09/24/libertarians-do-too-have-morals-just-dif

11  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Constitution of Delusion on: September 24, 2012, 02:07:44 PM
Well, most people don't become anarchist overnight. It took me a few years after becoming libertarian to become full-blown ancap. So not all minarchists are hopeless.  Maybe they just need some more time to think about it.


I agree. I imagine most of us didn't start as ancaps or whatever.  I was a Marxist in high school. However, by the time I was introduced to Ancap stuff I was a very depressed libertarian at the nadir of the "libertarian depression" so I was ready to move on.  But the transition only took me a week or two.  I recommend the cop angle, Praetorian class with a separate set of rules, auto-authority, no real oversight, etc etc. Its fun to go the class angle and compare with ancient(modern?) Rome. Patricians, praetorians and plebeians. Politicians are an aristocracy that have their own rules who control reciprocity immune praetorians who do what they want.

It kind of shows the system is fucked when it relies on people not responding to perverse incentives.  There is a TJ quote about that, if men were angels or whatever.
12  General Category / General Discussion / Re: WANTED: I need a Commie/Socialist style anarchist to debate Stefan Molyneux on: September 18, 2012, 11:55:00 AM
I can't imagine this working out. Ancap and Ancom are based on fundamentally different subjective premises. Molyneux is big on objective this and that. Very black and white. Mind you, I'm ancap and there was a time I thought Ancoms were insane. I understand them much better now and am just totally disinterested with their value structure. But there is something approaching coherency there, its just totally offensive to a virginal ancap psyche.

 I think it would devolve to this (http://funny-bits4.blogspot.com/2012/06/politics.html#random)
13  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Anarcho-Monarchism: Your thoughts and theories on: September 18, 2012, 11:34:57 AM
I really like the quote "No gods or kings, only men." I usually use the "kings" part to refer to presidents or other autocrats, it rarely gets to be used so literally. So I would have a half fear of this.

But you're right I'd even go to say that *most* societies were anarcho monarchist for a long time. It all came down to one individual wielding a lot of social influence while being unwilling/unable to tread on the "rights" of his people.

Ultimately, I don't like people deferring judgement to other human beings. I think after you absorb anarchism, the next step is a very internal process.  *Why* were we so fucked up we let tin pot dictators rule us for thousands of years. There are no magic laws. The only difference between someone wielding a lot of social authority and someone wielding legal authority is that the second person codified his influence. The most influential person in your life should be your teacher, mentor etc. And unless they're committed to pushing paradigm-stuffed envelopes as you are you will surpass them shortly. I fail to see why they or anyone else should deserve some special social role.

I don't understand the need or even the want of a politically powerless but influential person in any kind of faux cultural leadership role. Such positions aren't harmless, especially because people think they are.  Read Elsworth Tooey in the Fountainhead.

Ron Paul is a great man. However, unless he's a secret Ancap (I suspect he is) I don't have much to learn from him, even at this stage in my life. At least stuff that pushes envelopes. He's incredibly well-read but I don't need him to learn that stuff.

I do understand what you're getting at more or less but only because I recently read some Ian Banks books.  There's a Culture of Anarchists who have a "government". Stay with me here, it works and its basically what you're describing. I'm convinced it only works because said Ambassador/King/Regent is a bunch of supercomputer robots. Read Player of Games or Surface Detail, its the most mature look at a functioning Anarchy that I've ever seen.
14  General Category / Lounge / Re: Anyone else on: September 16, 2012, 05:55:23 PM

 (or a not so nice one =)



This is good advice, nothing is more distracting than a not so nice girl.

Also, worrying about the state or the nation or whatever is a form of entitlement.  You're upset because reality does not match up with your own take on reality. The state is shit and people are really okay with that, and it offends you.  Which means you think it has been or should be otherwise. It certainly hasn't been that way in my or your memory. And as far as should, you're proscribing a reality on people who freaking love the one we have.  Most people love politics and the system.  They whine about it, but the same way they whine about the Yankees.

So just realize shit is the way it is. It shouldn't be any other way.  The problems we face are reaction of the continued choices of other people. You can change direction of your own life but unless you're going to do the cabin in the woods deal (I don't recommend it) you have to work with the shitheads to some degree.

There's a good quote about living a good peaceful life and it will change the lives of your neighbors, just by being an example.
15  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Benton Resigns on: September 13, 2012, 04:19:34 AM
If only he had done it about a year ago.

lolz
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