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31  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: Convince me to be an Anarchist. on: September 07, 2013, 11:26:50 AM
Polske, crime disappears in a free society because your neighbors are only too glad to help harm those that harm others.  I lived in Mexico for the last 2 years and crime is much lower when your neighbors would gladly chop you up into pieces.  Lots of freedom in Mexico.

How do we get from capitalist slavery to utopia?  This guy is supposed to be responsible for the arab spring.

Gene Sharp

Getting the idea out is the problem.  With a microphone loud enough we attain our goal.  That is why 'rich' people bought the means to control the minds of the people with tvs and newspapers, the people were not allowed outside info until the internet came on line.  That is a lot of programming to overcome.  I mean patriarchy was programmed into the group conscousness for many many generations.

I think we appeal to their lazyness.  I think Kropotkin crunched the numbers in The Conquest of Bread.  Basically we work from the ages of 20 to 50, 4 to 6 hours a day and this is enough to keep the stores full of the latest flashy light boxes, and food.  We would fulfill the needs of the people, food, clothing, shelter, first, and entertainment second.

Some people will produce to an excess that will earn them household names, think Bill Gates, but without the globalist taint.

Utopia is just a window pane away. 

The workers do all the work needed to fill the stores with consumer goods, when they realize that they don't need the help of supervisors they will have freed their minds, their asses will follow,....

Can you imagine the joy among the oppressed minorities when they figure out that the struggle is finally over??

No longer do they get hit with sticks, and they can go to the store and get what they want without money.

Money, and it's capitalist system, are the chains that enslaves them to work. 

Their choice of sources for information is what enslaves their mind to capitalism.

Utopia can be had when we smash the glass.


32  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: I just want to know why... on: September 07, 2013, 10:52:54 AM
Aonl, if you could live in a world that allowed you to get what you need at the store in return for 25 years of 'socially responsible' work, would you be willing to forgo your support of the current system?
33  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: A World without money on: September 07, 2013, 10:39:04 AM
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Life interrupts me too, but I can keep an idea in my head while discussing tangents long enough to come back to the main point.

I'm sooo proud of you,... Cheesy


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my life got better incredibly fast.
It is better to live in reality for me,....mostly,....reality is for folks that can't handle drugs,....

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I brought up primivitism; it seems like that would be in line with your philosophy.
My philosophy does not force people into boxes.

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So why should these people repair your stuff for you? What would motivate them to do it?
Some of them would do it to feel superior and laugh at my puny skills, but for others it would be their socially responsible work that enables us all to go to the store and get what we need without feeling like a bum,....

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An admirable posistion,....what of those that do accept that scenario??  Do we just let them continue to run amok??
 Agorism
Agorists believe in vigilante neighbors??  I don't fully understand your response.

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It isn't capitalist by my definition of capitalist
How do you define capitalism?

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You keep asserting this but you've not given any reasons why that is.
It is a necessary function of the absence of coercive authority.  Can you recognize the amount of production destroyed daily by the men that pick up sticks and force control on their neighbors?  Capitalism is hardly effecient.

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You have two items will organization make that number infinite? No it won't.
It is true that demand will shrink supply, but it will also put nearly everybody into the work force exponentially expanding production while ending coercive control.  I could care less about the latest electronics, my demands would be simple, mostly for food.  Once the new wears off the novelty of living without money the utopia will be stable. 

Do you just want a master, or what?  How can you continue to deny the escape from the coercive controls placed on you by men with sticks?

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Actually let's scratch infinite, let's make it three. You have two items will organization make it three? No it won't. I suppose you could cut one item in half and say it makes three but you haven't changed the amount of item there.
How does getting gilders to trade for furniture improve the scarcity?  Purposley restricting supply is a common control technique to the capitalist.  Your slavery is carefully hidden from you.

We have to have work, we don't have to get paid in currency.  We could get paid in esteem.

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The reason other people don't respond to the idiots in this section is because unlike me they aren't glutens for punishment
Man, have you used enough label words?  Do you really only see people as having value if they agree with your programming?  How is that any different than being christian?  I thought you might be intellectual enough, but clearly that is not the case, well, good cheer to you as well.


If you've made it this far you will know that Capt Bringdown and the BuzzKillers have left the room and you are now free to comment without fear of ridicule.

Welcome,....






















34  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: Violence of capital on: September 07, 2013, 09:58:51 AM
Nor can the more perfectly enslaved feel their chains,...
35  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: A World without money on: September 01, 2013, 11:08:17 PM
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I couldn't maintain my concentration long enough to complete the whole post.

I'm sorry that real life interupts this discourse, but facts are facts, I live a steam of consciousness and interuption causes disjointedness. 

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I was raised a fundamentalist Christian.
Sorry about that.  Was there alot of authorarian suppression of your nature?  I try to determine the level of violence that you have expierienced as it affects your relationship to others.  I suffered relativly little violence at home.  (no brothers)

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If you want to be a primitivist that's your prerogative

Not once have I mentioned primitivist ideas, though it would be easier to live that way under my organizational ideas.  You can keep your technology or leave it, I will keep mine as long as others keep them working as I have no expierience in repair of them.


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Frankly I'm not interested in ever being given that temptation.
An admirable posistion,....what of those that do accept that scenario??  Do we just let them continue to run amok??


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Because this is an agricultural society.
Scratch agricultural and insert capitalist.

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If you want that sort of anti proprietarian stuff you can have it.

Obviously you haven't caught that under my system you would have as much property as you care to be responsible for.  You can go to the store and get what you want while working less than you do now.

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Which part of this paragraph involves violence?
The capitalist part, der,.... Roll Eyes

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I'm going to steal some stuff now:
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If you think the fed is necessary to have interest you're wrong.
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I don't care about "public" opinion whatever that is
These are examples of why I think you just here to suck up time, that you would harm your neighbors in pursuit of your goals decries your claim to being an anarchist and the depth of your knowledge of capitalist economics is plain.  Public opinion is why you were born a slave.

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You say I don't understand money and you don't even know the difference between money and the banking cartel and you don't know the difference between central planning and capitalism and you've probably never heard of Keynes. Yeah...
And you don't understand the fundamental opposition of capitalism and anarchism,....I didn't either until just recently,...

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you don't even know the difference between money and the banking cartel
Well by all means enlighten me,...

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If you can get rid of scarcity,
Scarcity is a function of organization.  If we grow enough food to feed ourselves yet kids starve only the system of organization can be blamed.  Saying, 'Well if those lazy kids would submit to being exploited in wage slavery they could've bought some food.', doesn't really cut it.

Scarcity will disappear with proper organization.

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You probably will have the last word because I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of anything.

Don't quit now, you can still win,....
36  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: A World without money on: September 01, 2013, 10:37:09 PM
Oh, oh, there are two,...brb!
37  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: A World without money on: September 01, 2013, 10:36:15 PM
Ok, thanks for sniping my post, would you like to comment further,...??
38  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Sex at Dawn on: September 01, 2013, 09:41:13 PM
I should think that everyone would be free to spread their love with whoever struck their fancy, though personally I prefer those that prefer me to the exclusion of others, so if a girl wanted to make it with other males she would not top my list of eligibles for marriage, though she would certainly be welcome at the partyhouse.
39  General Category / General Discussion / Re: I quit facebook on: September 01, 2013, 09:23:06 PM
Thanks, Syock, I think I will,...
40  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: The Austrian School of Ignorance on: September 01, 2013, 09:06:51 PM
His droning, and continuous use of label words turned off my ability to get what he was saying,....but I do appreciate his attemp to extend alternative historical views,....

I do know that economics is the science created to explain to the people that money is necessary, when clearly it is not, only labor is required.

If every economist took up another pursuit our world would change not one little bit, those with money would continue to dominate and those that don't actively resist will conform with varying views of the delusion.

I routinely dismiss economists as a whole as an attempt to bankrupt me of my time.
41  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: Violence of capital on: September 01, 2013, 08:52:25 PM
OMG,... Shocked

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The real question is how do you get people on board with capitalism without force!

Indeed it is,...what are your thoughts on false flags right here??  If I tie up your time you are distracted from your mission??

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You have no idea what you're talking about.]

This needs to be modified from you to I,...if you ask me,....

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Either you use violence to destroy a violent system and create the conditions for peace, or you don't and the violent system continues forever.

In this I disagree, we only have to get a microphone large enough to reach the disaffected.  Can you imagine Houston, LA, and Atlanta if we convinced them that all they got to do is go into the store in sufficient numbers to make enforcement of the law impossible?

The racial minorities that have had enough of the white men in suits ruling from the top should have the solidarity needed to get the message out by word of mouth, but the others are not gonna be reached by much outside the flashy light box.

I do agree that it looks unlikely that the military industrial complex, think the names Bush and the Carlyle Group, will surrender thier hold on their slaves without our people demonstrating their solidarty in the streets in front of tanks in the States.

What I would give to be the tank man of amerika, though I understand that they killed the chinese originator.

So, short of that type scenario, how do we grab the microphone from the corporate whores??

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This isn't a theory, this is historic fact over and over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory
42  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: A World without money on: September 01, 2013, 08:23:10 PM
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Here we go with the conspiracy nonsense again. Not interested.

I'm not certain I caught your reference.  I am certain that certain words are useful to discredit arguments just by their use, "shut up racist!",...

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More than some less than others.

So, your operant conditioning is what flavor of religion?

When we are kids one of the first things we learn is not to upset dad, then we learn that 'our' religion is the ultimate religion.  What active steps have you taken to overcome this mindwarp forced on you as a child.  I made up my own religion, and it satisfies the questions that being forced to be 'Luthern' left unanswered.  Unless you have taken active steps on your part to reverse the mind control operant conditioning, and maybe even after, you walk with all your perceptions being filtered through this lens.

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We all have to work, it's what we get in return that I am talking about.

If you get rid of money instead of stealing bank notes people will steal direct exchange goods

What fool would screw up paradise by stealing anything?  He can just go to the store and get what he wants.  Even if he doesn't work, it being better to carry the dependents, we do now, than to be his master.

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You get what the agreed to amount is.

I want voluntary mutually beneficial exchange. Not enslavement

So, then you want to get paid with something that is inflation proof, like the right to go to the store and get what you need from the work of others without a bankster in the middle taking his cut off the top.  If you could print money would you constrain yourself to keep inflation low?  If you could create money from nothing would you indulge your wildest fantasies??  Evil is very seductive.

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You are seriously delusional

First they laugh at you and call you crazy, then they attack you, then you win,....I'll take your attack as my win now, thanks.

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Stop using scape goats.

I don't look to assign blame, I look to shorten the distance from slavery to freedom, and I am saying this can be simply done today by the workers realizing that if they go to work tomorrow the stores will remain full as long as the workers continue to work.  Without the added hassle of banks and bank statements.

"We don't need money, we do need work."  FBA 2012

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No we aren't in this together.

What planet do you live on??  You don't have to waste any energy on me, but you can't deny that we share the same water and air.  You don't have to accept me as a brother and equal, you can force a debt based monetary system onto me and make me a slave instead.  We are in this together and that you don't recognize your chains doesn't make you any less subject to the drawbacks of the system.  And your continued defense of it keeps me in chains, too.  The poor dupes call the law when I take bread.  "Ask for work, if they won't give you work, ask for bread, if they won't give you bread, take bread."  Can you name the person quoted??


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When one demands payment for a specialized skill you can bet your ass they're going to want more for their time.

So ask yourself, do I want a doctor that has taken up his profession in pursuit of monetary rewards, or do you want a doctor that helping people is his crack?  I want a doctor that does the work because he can't think of anything else he would rather do, rather than one that just wants a tennis court in his backyard.  In my system we would celebrate the donation of doctors to the health of the world, I would think that they would have to beat the girls off with sticks,....and face it, when you have a house, clothes, a car, what else do you need??

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That isn't how interest works.

When a bank makes a loan they create the money when you sign the documents, they have been authorized by the fed to multiply the money they have on deposit by a factor of almost 10, they don't create the money for the interest, in order to get your interest you have to get the loaned money of another person.  All the dollars in circulation are somebody's loan.  NEVER does the bank create money for the interest.  Interest makes it impossible to pay back all the loans because the money doesn't exist, only principle.  This makes the repayment of all the loans out there impossible because somebody used your money to pay his interest.  Bankruptcy is a required function of the system.  Yes, by making more loans you can put off the inevitable for a long time, but eventually the interest on the loans sucks up all the current loans and the people have the flaws of the system exposed to them, they hang a few bankers, and the circle will start again.  Ask President Jackson, he understood the game,....Kennedy, as well, both shot by agents of those that are happy with this system just the way they imposed it upon us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfpO-WBz_mw

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What do you care about what someone watches on their tube?

I don't care what they watch, what I care about is their ignorance of the slavery they push off on me because they would rather mindmeld with the flashy light box than understand their slavery.

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it just so happens that reality is a little more horrific than the fairy tales they teach you in indoctrination camp.

Indeed, when the folks wake up and escape their escapes into fiction they are gonna be mad.

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Did you even bother to read my simple explanation of what money actually is?

Yes, and I found it simplistic.  You don't truly understand money, maybe you got a definition to flaunt, but you don't get that the reality of the system is that kids have to starve so Bill Gates can dim his lights with his mind, not to mention the kids that have to be burned to death in the streets so that GW can another billion dollars,.... the Carlyle Group.

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So you want people to do what they're doing now but you want them to do it for other people instead of for themselves?

Not exactly, would it be in your best interest to continue your contributions to a system that guarantees that you will never starve, be naked, or have your own home?  It is in your best interest to keep the distribution lines open, you do want the latest in manufactered goods, don't you?  I want people to take off the blinders put there by people that understand the manipulation of public opinion to the point that the folks beg to be slaves.  They are not gonna learn that on tv.


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I don't know what you mean about market manipulation, I'm against central planning.
But you defend the main tool of the capitalists??

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Utopia is a myth. I don't propose utopia. My idea of a perfect world is one where people have the most choice.

Never had utopia before, not gonna happen, ever,.....especially if you maintain that attitude.  You are making it harder for those of us that understand the topic more fully.

I'm sorry about this being a little disjointed, I couldn't maintain my concentration long enough to complete the whole post.  Perhaps in the future we can shorten up our posts just a little.  Real life has a way of denying me access to the web for extended periods of time, but you can be sure that I will have the last word, if it is humanly possible for me to do so,... especially if that is to admit that you were right.
43  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: A World without money on: August 19, 2013, 09:08:03 PM
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I don't think you know what coercion means.

I don't think you know how deep the monarch mind control rabbit hole falls,.......  Operation Paperclip.

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I don't follow a religion

Was a religion forced on you as a child?

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Either I bent my back in labour to grow that food, or I traded something I had for it.

We all have to work, it's what we get in return that I am talking about.  You want basically what we have, makes me think you got more money than me, because I feel the evils of this system sooo much that I spend all my money back into the system because I don't want to have somebody else's kids starve because I got to be a  capitalist in order to live a little more comfortably.  Why should I trade my labor for even 'sound money' when we are all in this together and no money=no crime.  What you gonna steal when you can go to the gettin' place and get an up to date one, for free, basically.

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The market does not equal the State.
   
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Someone had to dig that shit up

But an asshole is an asshole, and that is what you are when you require more than you have given in return.  If I give 8 hours and you give 8 hours, me in picking up trash on the highway, and you in brain surgery do you advocate me getting less for my labor??  Does your market allow folks to make money with out labor?? 

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You see that ruthless scumbags have money so assume that having money makes you a scumbag. You're wrong.

If you are aware that in a debt based currency, all those folks saving for their retirement are taking money out circulation and without circulation the house of cards falls because the bank didn't loan any money for the interest, the only way to get the interest is to force somebody else into bancruptcy.  Yes, I think that makes you a scum bag.  Dupes is how I would describe most folks, but they ain't tryin' to learn anything beyond Dancin' wit' the stars, and I think that makes them scumbags, too.  I mean, if you can't look around and realize that this isn't Amurika, then the monarchs have had their way with you.

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Money is just a tool.

And that tool is a pair of shackles.  It keeps those on top, on top.  They pay thugs to serve and protect the established power structure, mindwarp the chicken people, and sheeple, into accepting it and then want to deny it's effects, like it has none.

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Free of charge is like absolute zero, it's existence is theoretical but you're never going to find an example outside of a text book.

I wouldn't look any farther than Somalia, or whatever those brother and sister anarchists are calling it locally.  So, what you are saying is that if I can push an idea out of the minds of the people I never have to worry about it coming back because it can be denounced as never gonna happen, never did, what ya talkin' about, sheesh,...that's old news, down the memory hole.  I bet if I had a microphone that reached the people they would love to keep working in return to getting what they  want from the getting place.  When the reality gets to the people that all we got to do is keep the organization organized to distribute the stuff worldwide and we get what we want at the store right now, or when delivery is available, they gonna be mad about those centuries of enslavement by the money masters.

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The truth is that most people WANT a master.

The monarchs have had their way with those that watch tv and take their baits whole,....

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I truly have no idea what this means.

Clearly,...
It means that you can get on a Jet and go to Tahiti when you feel like it, all we ask in return is that you complete whatever number of hours is needed to keep the stores full of crap that makes us happy.  You can have the latest toys, want a Lambo, get a freakin' Lambo,....just keep helping build houses, or make clothes, or grow, gather, and distribute food, so that the scumbags don't make slaves of us by warping our minds, again.

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. She's trading her skills and service for money

Who's money?  Please confirm for our readers that any market you make can be manipulated if you have enough whatevers to do it.  Gold, Silver, Talley sticks,....

How do you propose your utopia?  Do you have a solution, or are you just sniping mine??

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It's THEIR life and when you demand things from people for FREE what you're doing is demanding that they be bound to you
I'm not demanding nothing, I  am proposing that instead of organizing walmart to make the waltons billionaires we orgainze to make us all very very comfortable, and free from the thugs that protect and serve the monied elites.

Thanks for your time, MAM, mine's up for a day or two.
44  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: A World without money on: August 17, 2013, 09:27:36 PM
Ok, from the top,...

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Masters use coercion. Coercion through arms is the tool they use to enslave you.

Like I said, the metal in the chains that bind me,......that the common man accepts this lie makes it much easier to keep this disneyland for dummies afloat.

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Why should anyone give you food for free? Out of the kindness of their hearts? Reality check the vast majority of people aren't altruistic.

So, because everybody else is a jerk, you gonna be a jerk, too??  How principled is that??  I would ask what religion you follow.
And yes, I do expect you to give me food out of the kindness of your heart you didn't have to pay anything for it, it was given to you to do with as you please.  If you have more money than me you should give some to me to help free  yourself from money's caustic effects,....and to help spread the message of freedom!


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"Why should I have to trade to eat?"

I don't trade my life for what I want at the big box store, I give freely from my work so that others will give freely from their's, we are all human beings.  If you are not a billionaire the odds are against you ever being one, they only hand their secrets/money/insider tips to their kids, who, I would guess, would've liked to have been spared, but didn't know any better.  The only way to negate that power relationship, and stop being slaves, is we have to do away with money.  The folks that are controling things now need only stay at home and not answer the door.  When the people go to the QuickTrip and everything is free, who you think they gonna vote for??  I think shame will cause the lazy to chip in, but if they don't, is it any improvement to be his master?


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Questions?

Indeed,....

Why would Alice sacrifice her sovereignty to a monied elite, and their market manipulations in search of labor free money, when she lives in a world that all she has to do is punch her time card for X number of hours in her life to have the life of a billionaire??  ¨Really when Alice can validate 5 hours helping Bill have a prize winning, and more importantly,  popular website, why would she trade that for a few hundred dollars, and never visit Tahiti, when she only lacks 39,995 more hours until retirement/availabity for advanced studies and she can go to Tahiti today?  With any luck, she'll bang out a coùple more and never have to gather potatoes. 

Oh, yeah, Coercion, neighbors that think like chickens, and a bunch of sheeple bleating Obaaamaa Phone!!.

Why is Alice so hateful to Bill, is Bill a jerk?  Alice knows that in order for Bill to get money in a debt based money system he has to push somebody else into bancruptcy, and that has to be heavy karma?   Is Alice aware that demanding dollars, or anyother manipulable commodity, is tantamount to taking bread from some kid's mouth??

I would like to party with AC/DC, but not at the exchange of 5 days of my work for 1 hour of theirs',...
45  Questions And Challenges / Challenges To Anarcho-Capitalism / Re: A World without money on: August 15, 2013, 01:08:13 PM
In order,.....

I think money is the metal of the chains that make me a slave.  Why should I have to trade to eat??  Be it gold, dollars, or chickens.  Walmart has enough distribution occuring that if we liberate it and continue it we don't need money, we only have to give of our labors to the rebranded distribution center.  What do you think money is??


I had to look up the venus project because, though having looked at it once and dismissing it as one more controlled propaganda group, I wanted to be sure of that catagorization, but when I got there I didn't see anything to change that opinion, so let me say that if they are hosting the book I reccommend they can't be all bad.  I am in no way supportive of the project unless it disavows the enslavement of humans by the use of money, and or, force.  Including the limitiing of options, choosing between a shit sandwich and a turd in not much of a choice.

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