Daily Anarchist Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Victor on November 21, 2013, 12:25:22 AM

Title: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Victor on November 21, 2013, 12:25:22 AM
Yeah, so, I'm unemployed and almost broke and looking for work. I'd like to be able to do work that doesn't involve paying for the drones going to traumatize children in Pakistan, (taxes,) but on the other hand my luck with self-employment has been less in the past than I'd like. But I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions? Are there websites for agorists to find work?

(Also, Seth, do you mind if people solicit money on your forum? If I come up with a project I want to do in the future could I, for example, post about it here to gauge interest and then post a link to bitcoinstarter or some such if people seem interested?)

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Seth King on November 21, 2013, 12:35:54 AM
Post away, my friend!

When are you moving to New Hampshire, again?

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Victor on November 21, 2013, 03:32:12 AM

When I'm not broke/in debt from my epically failed time as a college student.

Keep reminding me though, because I like having somewhere to look forward to getting to. :)

Anywho, in that case, let me take a short bit and work up a pitch of sorts...

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Victor on November 21, 2013, 04:50:05 AM
I'm going to break this up into a string of posts, because for some reason the forum software is being silly and not letting me post all my links. Grarh.

Ok, three ideas for your consideration:


I have, as I have mentioned previously on the forum (https://dailyanarchist.com/forum/index.php/topic,2713.0.html) and in my post on the front page about the intentional community of Modern Times (http://dailyanarchist.com/2013/10/10/experimental-sociology-in-an-intentional-anarchist-community/) (shameless plug) a large and growing number of case studies of anarchist and stateless societies and other sorts of empirical evidence for the feasibility of anarchism in my possession. Not all the examples of Stateless societies I've found are peaceful or administered justice in a humane way by the standards of most readers here, not all of them are what I would call anarchic, (if anarchy means "no rulers" then a stateless society with, for instance, slavery, wouldn't in my opinion be anarchic, though I'm open to others' opinions,) and some of them are just plain weird from an anarcho-capitalist perspective, offering juicy challenges to the philosophy. At least they certainly surprised me when I read about them.

But if anyone wants me to stop being infuriatingly vague and provide some of my sources, then I'd like to profit from it. I know writing articles for the front page already pays, (thanks Seth for providing the opportunity! ;D,) but I'm a scientific skeptic and rather hardcore empiricist, (how thoroughly insane an empiricist may become clear as time goes on,) and while my posts may not reach the quality of a peer-reviewed paper, I'd like them to be much higher quality than normal blog posts. I'm thinking, for one thing, at least 3 academic sources (peer-reviewed papers from non-think-tanks, or at least working papers from non-think-tanks if I can't find 3 peer-reviewed papers,) relevant to the particular case-study, with links embedded to jstor or other places where people can actually read my sources instead of having to buy something off of amazon or something. I don't write for a passive audience, I write for people who won't believe me, (but are open to evidence,) and I want to be able to defend any claims I make in a debate. So they'll be well sourced.

And yes, I think I can do at least 25 or so case studies meeting those conditions. See? You're all wanting access to all the sources I've found already right? :P

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Victor on November 21, 2013, 04:53:01 AM
I'm not going to write them propagandistically though. For my idea of propagandistic see Stateless in Somalia and Loving It (https://mises.org/daily/2066). That article received, with I think good reason, rather harsh criticism. (Do a google search for the article's title and some stuff will come up.) With respect to the author, I'm going to write articles Not Like That tm. For my idea of better written, non-propagandistic articles see Davi Barker in his article for the front page (http://dailyanarchist.com/2011/11/16/the-law-according-to-the-somalis/), and Benjamin Powell at fee.org (http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/somalia-failed-state-economic-success). They both give a more complete picture than Yumi Kim, conceding Somalia's poverty and violence and explaining more of what's going on, not trying to make it out to be more than it is. The point they make is basically that the world isn't black and white, and a more realistic assessment of Somalia shows that it was neither an anarchic paradise nor hell on earth, and the quasi-anarchic law code they used did provide a basic level of security.

I guess that's a digression. Anyway, I'd argue that articles like Yumi Kim's hurt our cause, giving people fuel to treat anarchists like crackpots. Again, do a search for "Stateless in Somalia and Loving It" and glance at what comes up. Powell's post actually got responses like so (http://ideas.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/22/somalia-stateless-hope/?_r=1) instead, that's what we need.

The other thing is, I don't think we possess the sort of "hit you over the head" type evidence required to convince people. Yes, I know, I just got through saying I have two dozen case studies to do. (I'm being modest, I've seen more but eventually you stop trying to count discrete instances and start seeing the world as more of a blur of state-"order" and stateless order mixed together in a smelly stew.) But I'm not aware of any modern, industrialized anarchist societies existing on a scale of millions of people, peaceful and prosperous or otherwise. That's the evidence people demand, and while the lack of such evidence is hardly a proof that anarchy can't work, people take it as such. What has to happen is those who are already convinced will have to create a modern, large scale stateless society, and then the world can be convinced by that. A few private police agencies can be dismissed out of hand, we need a full-fledged anarchist society.

So, all this writing I'm doing I'm mainly going to do for the benefit of anarchists. Specifically for the benefit for the sorts of anarchists here at the Daily Anarchist. One of the reasons I like this group is that it's made up of activists. (Yep, I know, I need to move to New Hampshire. ;D) People doing debates on the internet can afford propaganda, the only cost is being proven wrong. People creating an anarchist society can not, the cost could be loosing lots of money, being imprisoned, or, in the extreme case, dying. We need a scientific accounting of what works and what doesn't. Worry about convincing others some other time.

Anywho, there's all sorts of stuff I want to write about, and I think I can stretch all of your brains a bit. But being broke makes this difficult. The less broke I am, the more likely I am to do case-studies. So, if anyone wants my brain-stretching evidence and scientific accountings it is I think in your interest to make me less broke. The less broke the more research and the more writing I can do.

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Victor on November 21, 2013, 04:54:54 AM

Another idea I had which I'd love to do but which would possibly be even more work, or at least would require a longer period of work without as many visible results, was, (wait for it,) anarchist themed music. My skills are basically: programing, writing fiction and poetry, writing instrumental music, (electronic,) and assorted other artsy/computer stuff. Game design is my life ambition, but I don't feel competent to build any anarchist themed computer games yet. (If you pay me thousands of dollars I'll go find enough feelings of competence to fill a bottomless pit, but until then I'll wait.) But music I'm quite sure I can do.

So what kind of music?

Anyone heard of B. L. Underwood? Go listen to Ambivalence here (https://archive.org/details/BLUnderwood_Blasto) and The Three-Fold Commonwealth and New Life here (https://archive.org/details/BLUnderwood_Osmosis). What I've got in my head is music either like his songs, but with a crypto-anarchist/agorist theme rather than a communist theme :P , or music like Porter Robinson's The State (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGyTTaRpj0). In other words, I'll take sound bites of news stories, interviews, etc. and morph them into music in various creative ways. (If anyone is skeptical I can work something up as a rough draft.) Then there'd be instrumental music too, in various styles of electronica, since that's what I like and write well.

This would be an agorist enterprise. I'd release the music for free once I finished an album, (say at least an hour's worth of music,) and then I'd take donations in bitcoin. I'd claim no copyright. The music would already have a crypto-anarchist theme, but the agorist nature of production, releasing it for free, (can anyone point me to where to get in touch with Pirate Bay for their Promo-Bay thingymabob?), encouraging people to pirate it and distribute it far and wide, taking donations solely in crypto-currency, and of course the mystique of nobody knowing who I actually am outside of the internet, (to be honest I expect the government can figure it out, at least I could figure it out if I was working for the government, but maybe they're not as competent as me,) all would make it quite a surreal experience.

I'm picturing people finding the music on youtube and having it be like listening to an alien radio show. They'd be exposed to Agorist counter-culture the way someone would be exposed to a strange culture in a science fiction story, only then they'd look it up and find out there are actual agorists, and the musician is one of them. It'd be like looking up a fantasy story and finding out magic is real. :P

Another idea I had, for example, is that I could auction off commercial spots for agorist businesses. Say you're listening to the album and it has a staticy noise like changing a radio channel and it cuts to a commercial for Shield Mutual. Playing into the alien culture theme, these commercials would sound like companies from a fiction story, (Rapture? Galt's Gulch?), and the realization that these are real companies, (which by the way dear listeners you can buy real products from by going to these real websites,) would, I think, not only be excellent marketing for the agorist movement in general, but excellent marketing for the agorists involved.

Come on, how awesome could this be? If done well it could go viral, and then you'd have tons of people suddenly exposed to anarchist ideas. If you have a website for them to go to to look up lyrics or info about the "band" then you could further use the opportunity to expose them to anarchist literature. (My idea is I'd have sheet music with urls embedded linking to the sound bites used in the music, if you can picture that. As if html code were part of the musical notation.)

Also, if anyone is wondering about copyright violations in using interviews and such in my music, I would plan on contacting all the copyright holders and people involved in the interviews to ask their permission to include them in my songs. This, I think, would have the useful effect of advertising the existence of the project to a great number of people.

Now, I happen to really like this particular idea, so if I did it I'd do it right, and I don't think I could do it right and do it well unless I had a fair amount of funds to keep me going for a while. I could start small and release some music for the entertainment of the Daily Anarchist group here, (I'll have to work up a sample so you guys know I can write music,) but once scabs started finding it I'd want them to be able to dig and find more of it and more about what the project is. I want to draw people in. Muahahahaha.

Anywho, that one would cost money to be fully realized. So, if you're interested, (yes you, no not you over there, you!) let me know so I can form a hypothesis as to how likely it would be that I could do the project.


Anyone like Interactive Fiction? Ok, so I could also make anarchist themed computer games of some sort, or, in particular, a "socratic voluntaryist", a "game" where you can have a conversation with one particular character who is well-versed in anarchist philosophy and history. (Did I mention I collect case-studies of stateless order?) You could basically debate with the character, so instead of reading a book about anarchism or talking to someone about it you could talk to a primitive ai and learn about anarchist ideas. You could raise objections, (though to be honest I'm inclined to force the player to be civil,) and ask questions and have them met and answered.

More details on this one if interest is here.


Ok, anywho, is there any realistic possibility that you guys and gals could fund this stuff or do I need to toss it all on the back-burner and find work somewhere? To be absolutely honest up front, I wouldn't be willing to do either the second or third idea unless I had at least $2000 worth of funding, probably more like $5,000 worth for the music project to be done fully, since I'd need a website and stuff, (though some of that could come from auctioning commercial slots to agorist businesses, and I'd need way less to just work up some instrumental music for the entertainment of just the group here. Heck I'd work up some basic instrumental tracks for like $50.) And for any sort of game or debate-ai I'll say at least $25,000.

For writing up case-studies though, I'll honestly probably write some up whether anyone gives me a penny of extra money for it or not. :P It'll just go faster if you guys send me money.

The music idea is my favorite I think. It would just be a ton of fun.

All numbers drawn from pure intuition, not economic calculation. I reserve the right to be completely broke and unable to work on things without more money than above described.


Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: toa on November 21, 2013, 09:24:03 AM
Not to be a debbie downer, but I haven't seen a high success rate with those types of funding projects. Bands with previous records and a fan base, yes I have seen that work out. Games being kickstarted to port to another platform, yes I've seen it. Books by authors with a previously attained fan base, yes it can happen. Could it work out for you, I hope so, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Victor on November 21, 2013, 09:42:15 AM
Well, I'm not betting on it. I'm tossing the idea out so that if I don't get a good response I can start back on my job search and not waste too much time on ideas that won't work.

So it's all cool. :) No dreams being crushed, tell me what you really think.


Edit: Look at it this way, the forum has 740 members, if half that number chipped in $20 each I honestly think I could do the music project. It's not like I'm going on tour or anything, I'd just be spreading the music online. I would just need a website, LMMS, (the software I use to write music,) and time, and time depends on how long I can pay bills. I've written music for way cheaper than thousands of dollars before, I don't need much.

The game project would be a lot more difficult, that I just tossed out because I had the idea and figured why not? (Though with the "debate-ai" I'm only imagining a twine game or inform 7 game if anyone is by some chance familiar with those, it would be relatively cheap.) If I'm going to fund something the music project would be better to do first.

With the research/writing project I'm basically just offering up a tip jar, any help will do. :P

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: toa on November 21, 2013, 10:31:16 AM
On a side note. If you want some guitar loops to use, I can make those. Obviously I would retain the right to use my own loops too, not that you were planning on copyrighting anyway.




Are some sample loops I've put together. Mostly cause I am not the type to actually make a coherent song. Everything I play needs to be fresh and challenging physically, or I get bored, and as a consequence... not always coherent.

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Victor on November 21, 2013, 01:17:39 PM
That would be fantastic actually! Are you offering to let me use them for free, or would I need to work up some money for your work? (If people are donating they could just direct some of their donations to you instead of me.) Also, what if someone were to take my songs and remix them, thus using your samples? Would you be alright with that?

I'm not great at creating the sort of sound in your samples. My music is generally more techno sounding, and much darker sounding. I'm not usually good at writing happy, uplifting melodies for some reason. And I've tried doing good guitar loops before and I suck at it. :P So yeah, that would be really useful!

I was actually considering offering the lmms files and all the resources I use as a reward if I go for a bitcoinstarter campaign. The interview and news clips would be the main issue with that idea, I could probably get permission to use them myself but I'm not sure I could release them to others. I could release the other resources though, and just warn anyone doing remixes.

I believe we also have some graphic artists in our community here do we not? Poxodd? Would you be interested in participating in this project? (http://poxodd.com/)

Any other artists and/or musicians? Even if this particular project doesn't work out I'd certainly be interested in knowing about any artsy types here for future reference, if I ever might request help on other projects. (Also coders, for that matter.)

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Syock on November 21, 2013, 02:15:33 PM
I suspect a good deal of the forum is as impoverished or not as you are.   

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: Victor on November 21, 2013, 04:24:13 PM
I suspect a good deal of the forum is as impoverished or not as you are.  

Yeah that's kind of my worry. :/ I can always try other anarchist forums though... If I put up a bitcoinstarter (which I'm planning out now, maybe in a week,) would you all be willing to distribute it to other forums or other agorists you know personally, or point me to some avenues where I can promote it? I honestly think I can do something pretty cool for agorist businesses, integrating "commercials" for their business into the album.

I don't know, it sounds like a cool idea to me at least. Sounds cool in my head.

The feedback I'm getting so far is implying to me that it's not immensely feasible though.

Edit: By the way, what sorts of music do people here listen to? If I can't write the sort of music that's popular among anarchists then that could be an issue. :P

Title: Re: Any jobs in the Agora?
Post by: toa on November 21, 2013, 06:34:22 PM
Ya, you can use them for free. If you felt you got enough value for them for payment, I would certainly be ok with accepting that. But I would be interested in how others would incorporate the loops in their own creations. I like good music, lots of genres.