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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: assasin7 on May 24, 2012, 09:42:11 PM



Title: anarchist terrorism
Post by: assasin7 on May 24, 2012, 09:42:11 PM
Quote
That every act of political violence should nowadays be attributed to anarchists is not at all surprising. Yet it is a fact known to almost everyone familiar with the anarchist movement that a great number of acts, for which anarchists had to suffer, either originated with the capitalist press or were instigated, if not directly perpetrated, by the police. For a number of years acts of violence had been committed in Spain, for which the anarchists were held responsible, hounded like wild beasts, and thrown into prison. Later it was disclosed that the perpetrators of these acts were not anarchists, but members of the police department. This is one of the many striking examples of how anarchist conspiracies are manufactured. That the American police can perjure themselves with the same ease, that they are just as merciless, just as brutal and cunning as their European colleagues, has been proven on more than one occasion. We need only recall the tragedy of May 4th, 1886, known as the Haymarket Riot – here in Chicago, no less. No one who is at all familiar with the case can possibly doubt that the anarchists, judicially murdered in Chicago, died as victims of a lying, blood-thirsty press and of a cruel police conspiracy. The Judge of the case himself said: "Not because you have caused the Haymarket bomb, but because you are anarchists, you are on trial."- Emma Goldman, psychology of political violence

I know when I was younger I wanted to smash that jewlery store for selling blood diamonds, and I will admit I shop lifted from CVS for crimes in the third world (NATO backed stealing of resources). Elsewhere in the essay she talks about how the violence is the cruelty of society breaking the cutie, its well worth reading, as is any thing by her.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: dpalme on May 24, 2012, 09:54:47 PM
Intriguing. Any links to where the entire thing can be read online, or is it just in book form?


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: assasin7 on May 24, 2012, 10:08:21 PM
http://ucblibrary3.berkeley.edu/goldman/Writings/Anarchism/violence.html


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: dpalme on May 24, 2012, 10:59:53 PM
Thanks!


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: assasin7 on May 24, 2012, 11:03:44 PM
Emma is great because you can read her works and not feel like you need a social scientist to english dictionary, this is what makes anarchism great, it makes sense in plain english


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: JustSayNoToStatism on May 25, 2012, 02:20:47 PM
That is a very appropriate block of text. I think we'll start to hear that theme ring louder and louder as time goes by, as a way of countering the success anarchists (especially market anarchists) have had in making people aware of stateless alternatives.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Anonymous Infowarrior on May 27, 2012, 08:34:38 AM
I've actually started to agree with agorists on quite a few things. In fact, I think I'm almost an agorist convert.
Just thought y'all should know


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: AgoristTeen1994 on May 28, 2012, 01:04:09 PM
That is a very appropriate block of text. I think we'll start to hear that theme ring louder and louder as time goes by, as a way of countering the success anarchists (especially market anarchists) have had in making people aware of stateless alternatives.

? Sorry but could you be a little more clear? I'm running on 1 hour of sleep in the past 2 days.....so....yeah. Be more clear. :P


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: JustSayNoToStatism on May 28, 2012, 06:25:41 PM
That is a very appropriate block of text. I think we'll start to hear that theme ring louder and louder as time goes by, as a way of countering the success anarchists (especially market anarchists) have had in making people aware of stateless alternatives.

? Sorry but could you be a little more clear? I'm running on 1 hour of sleep in the past 2 days.....so....yeah. Be more clear. :P
The quote posted by assassin7 is very true, even today. If I had to guess, I would say that governments are going to continue to blame anarchists as the new scapegoats (like with the recent anarchist terror plot). People are immune to the term "terrorism" now, they don't react in quite the same way. They need a new fear word, and they don't want it to bring up images of people living thousands of miles away....they want it to come from within (it's more believable and more frightening that way). I think anarchism is it. Whenever possible, the bad guys are going to be labeled anarchists from now on. Or they'll at least start phasing out the term terrorism and switching to anarchism...maybe even combining them as they did recently. Watch for it. Let's see in the next few years how frequently the term anarchist gets tossed around.

But it's not just because terrorism isn't scary anymore. I actually think that market anarchism is becoming more popular. Anarchist is no longer a title reserved for economically illiterate whiners who have no real influence on anyone. It's not just the "occupation" type folks who live in their own subcultures and influence no one else. Competent, intelligent people who remain somewhat within normal society are converting people who were previously political. The pace is slow, but still somewhat surprising. When did you all become anarchists? How many people do you know who are anarchists? How many people have you converted to anarchism? Compare these numbers with what you would have said x years ago.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: AgoristTeen1994 on May 29, 2012, 02:17:50 AM
Ah now I see what you mean


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: assasin7 on May 30, 2012, 11:08:00 AM
Anarchist is no longer a title reserved for economically illiterate whiners who have no real influence on anyone. It's not just the "occupation" type folks who live in their own subcultures and influence no one else. [/quote]

gee thanks


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: JustSayNoToStatism on May 30, 2012, 08:15:10 PM
Anarchist is no longer a title reserved for economically illiterate whiners who have no real influence on anyone. It's not just the "occupation" type folks who live in their own subcultures and influence no one else.

gee thanks
Yeah, admittedly my comment doesn't help inter-anarchist unity, but they don't come here anyways. That's honestly how I see it though. Because of ancoms, the word anarchist is a dirty word representing a lot of things with negative connotations. Actually, now I want to elaborate. Let's think of characteristics that people consciously or subconsciously attribute to "occupy" types:
-poor
-uneducated or miseducated (scammed by the liberal arts bubble)
-dirty
-loser
-whiner
-violent
-rash/aggressive/threatening
-unproductive
...among others

In this post I will not mention whether any of these things are true, nor will I comment on whether any of them are bad. I'm not commenting on any of that. I'm simply telling you what everyone thinks, and I'm telling you that most people put these things together and conclude that those people are irrelevant and meant to be ignored.

If you don't read my post carefully, you may get upset and call me rude, but I'm not passing any judgment. I'm telling you about reality. The reality is that market anarchists do a better job of making anarchism less scary, and do a better job of presenting ourselves, and that matters, whether you want it to or not. Sure, we still carry some of these characteristics as stereotypes, but not as bad.

PS: I'm poor too, so don't think I'm insulting people. I'm not. What I'm saying is that personal financial success (and other success in your life) is good for market anarchism. It makes you look credible. I will continue trying and working hard, and so should you!
PSS: Despite all these disclaimers, I completely expect to get attacked on this. Ready, set , go.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Josh D on May 31, 2012, 01:32:22 PM

If you don't read my post carefully, you may get upset and call me rude, but I'm not passing any judgment. I'm telling you about reality.

I love this part of your post!

I'm thinking about including it in all of my official communications.  That sentence is the most perfect example of rhetorical judo that I've ever seen.  Let me restate it below:

If the reader of this post disagrees with its contents and has an emotional reaction, it is because the reader of the post did not read it carefully enough.  The author of the post is simply documenting fact.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: JustSayNoToStatism on June 01, 2012, 07:49:49 PM
Relevant (http://news.yahoo.com/georgia-college-girl-arrested-alleged-pipe-bomb-hobby-171555294--abc-news-topstories.html)


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: assasin7 on June 03, 2012, 12:38:12 AM
that's fucking bullshit. She sounds like she's just trying to sound edgy with the anarchism. And blowing stuff up, I used to smash toy car's in my basement and I play COD to blow off steam. Doe's that make me a terrorist


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Coltan L. on June 03, 2012, 10:05:13 AM
"Once you label me you negate me." Søren Kierkegaard said that. I think its legit. Everytime I have to clarify my anarchist label with "books not bombs/bricks" I get pissed. By most definitions I'm an anarchist. My bad understanding of etymology says that means "without a leader/ruler". However, I think any title that defines you by a negative action or the absence of something is silly.  I'm nominally an atheist, but I also don't believe in a lot of other shit. I don't believe in Santa, spaghetti monsters, Satan, Xenu, Mormon Transcontinental Jesus etc.  I don't know if that's all covered under atheist but I doubt it.

Just like world-traveling Jesus, the State does not exist. Its not real. There are just a lot of jerks with guns and badges, as a wise man pointed out. So defining yourself by its negative is only slightly less silly than actually believing in it. *Especially* when the word anarchist is sullied by bomb throwers.  I throw no bombs. Just because I agree with some certain things with the bomb throwers doesn't mean I want anything to do with their title.  Many of them also wear pants as I do.

There are other words, Autarchist or Voluntaryist. Euphonically, they are shit and I'm not excited about them. I'm not looking for a replacement; if someone comes up with something accurate and badass sounding I will consider it.  Even then...


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Josh D on June 03, 2012, 07:40:59 PM
"Once you label me you negate me." Søren Kierkegaard said that. I think its legit. Everytime I have to clarify my anarchist label with "books not bombs/bricks" I get pissed. By most definitions I'm an anarchist. My bad understanding of etymology says that means "without a leader/ruler". However, I think any title that defines you by a negative action or the absence of something is silly.  I'm nominally an atheist, but I also don't believe in a lot of other shit. I don't believe in Santa, spaghetti monsters, Satan, Xenu, Mormon Transcontinental Jesus etc.  I don't know if that's all covered under atheist but I doubt it.

Just like world-traveling Jesus, the State does not exist. Its not real. There are just a lot of jerks with guns and badges, as a wise man pointed out. So defining yourself by its negative is only slightly less silly than actually believing in it. *Especially* when the word anarchist is sullied by bomb throwers.  I throw no bombs. Just because I agree with some certain things with the bomb throwers doesn't mean I want anything to do with their title.  Many of them also wear pants as I do.

There are other words, Autarchist or Voluntaryist. Euphonically, they are shit and I'm not excited about them. I'm not looking for a replacement; if someone comes up with something accurate and badass sounding I will consider it.  Even then...

Awesome Post!

I feel the same way, I'm an aunicornist as well.  I'd like to think of something positive rather then negative to describe my anarchism as well.  I'm worried if the terminology is forced you might get something like "brights", which was supposed to be an atheist substitute.  Dan Dennett talks about it some, but I'm not a big fan.  http://www.the-brights.net/movement/videos/BrightsTalk.html

Voluntaryist sounds strange in my ears.  I get the feeling that someone who is a voluntaryist really likes picking up litter off the sides of the highway or helping old ladies across the street or something like that.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Seth King on June 03, 2012, 08:06:40 PM
I sympathize with not wanting to call yourself a negative, but all of the other popular labels that exist are total non-starters.

If I tell somebody I'm a voluntaryist or agorist, they think "eh, that's nice" and move right along, because there are frankly a million different labels out there that people use and most of them are boring as shit. Nobody really cares.

But when I use the term "anarchist" it often elicits all sorts of reactions. I don't care if they're bad, as long as they are engaged enough to discuss things. That's what really hurting humanity, so few people are engaged enough to care.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: dpalme on June 03, 2012, 08:54:49 PM
But when I use the term "anarchist" it often elicits all sorts of reactions. I don't care if they're bad, as long as they are engaged enough to discuss things. That's what really hurting humanity, so few people are engaged enough to care.

Exactly! Even if someone freaks out and thinks you're for smashing Starbucks windows, it's a conversation starter and a chance to convert!


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Coltan L. on June 04, 2012, 04:47:27 AM
I almost want to go the opposite direction. On the forums and among friends I can "let my hair down" or whatever and call myself an anarchist. I try not to drop that bomb with strangers.

I will totally admit its super fun when someone puts all your premises together and gasps, "but that'd be Anarchy!"  To which you you gotta answer, "so?"

So I do see your point, I'm still a little insecure after the Seattle May Day. I was embarrassed to be associated with "them" even indirectly.  That might just be my problem


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Josh D on June 04, 2012, 03:03:57 PM
I sympathize with not wanting to call yourself a negative, but all of the other popular labels that exist are total non-starters.

For the record, I call myself an anarchist when asked.

I did panic once when a cute girl asked me about my political leanings.  I think I said, "uh.... uh, I'm an uh.... an... uh.... an <cough>anarchist<cough>"



Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: David Giessel on June 04, 2012, 05:16:07 PM
I like to pull out a piece of paper (always have one on me) and a pen (always have one on me) and slowly (for effect) draw an A and put a circle around it. Then I sit back and wait for them to say it.

3/3 positive reactions. One guy told me in a surprised tone that he'd never met an Anarchist who'd read a book before. Or maybe that was intended as an insult. 2/3. :-D


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Josh D on June 04, 2012, 05:20:37 PM
I like to pull out a piece of paper (always have one on me) and a pen (always have one on me) and slowly (for effect) draw an A and put a circle around it. Then I sit back and wait for them to say it.

3/3 positive reactions. One guy told me in a surprised tone that he'd never met an Anarchist who'd read a book before. Or maybe that was intended as an insult. 2/3. :-D

That would explain that time when I asked that one guy to describe himself.

He pulled out a piece of paper and a thick purple felt tipped marker, and then slowly drew a penis.  He then sat back and looked at me with an expression of expectation. 

Awkward...


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: David Giessel on June 04, 2012, 06:10:28 PM
I like to pull out a piece of paper (always have one on me) and a pen (always have one on me) and slowly (for effect) draw an A and put a circle around it. Then I sit back and wait for them to say it.

3/3 positive reactions. One guy told me in a surprised tone that he'd never met an Anarchist who'd read a book before. Or maybe that was intended as an insult. 2/3. :-D

That would explain that time when I asked that one guy to describe himself.

He pulled out a piece of paper and a thick purple felt tipped marker, and then slowly drew a penis.  He then sat back and looked at me with an expression of expectation. 

Awkward...

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhuxrmENEC1qft3neo1_1280.jpg)


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Kinglord of Castle Manufactoria on June 05, 2012, 11:36:48 AM
I flirted with the idea of using "Voluntaryist/Voluntarist" a bit.
I found that I valued the tax serf's reaction to the term "anarchist" on a very lulzy level.

Maintaining ideological purity in the "movement" & using the right words doesn't much matter to me on any serious level. I realize that much like religious magic, our magic words don't seriously effect people who don't believe they hold power. Once people start doing a minimal amount of reading, sure, they get a little bit of it. Our magic words work on them. We can pull spells from a Hoppe essay to win a debate, to sway a heart/mind. That only works if the people involved aren't agnostic to our belief structure. "Anarchy" effects most people the way "Hell" & "Eternal Damnation" do. It's an abstract fear that they can quickly move out of their brain.

I've started throwing around "Anarcho-nihilist", because, as I've said, our magic doesn't matter to 99% of the unwashed heathen statist hordes who exist outside our philosophical mage tower.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: JustSayNoToStatism on June 05, 2012, 12:02:06 PM
our magic doesn't matter to 99% of the unwashed heathen statist hordes who exist outside our philosophical mage tower.
How can we make it matter? Are there any financial services companies that utilize austrian insights into macroeconomics to build portfolios? If it's true that our understanding of the world is right, then we ought to be able to make money off it. If everyone else is so far off base, there should be price discrepancies that only this fringe group can find. I'm just saying, that would be good for market anarchism. Imagine the marketing of an ancap mutual fund. Make the magic worth something.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Kinglord of Castle Manufactoria on June 05, 2012, 12:38:33 PM
Make the magic worth something.
I'm sure an ancap in a financial industry position(or just one with a better understanding of said hedge wizardry than I) could employ the principles of Austrian economics to do all kinds of fun, profitable shit.

Regarding the magic being worth something, it is. That something just happens to be highly subjective. It's worth something to me because it is a functional/preferable way to exist. It nets me self satisfaction for now, probably wealth later.
For now, if acquiring vast amounts of wealth is your goal, learn to make money off of statists.
Use their fear/irrationality against them. It's a huge resource. Other statists have figured out market niches, survivalist/fear mongers have figured out a niche, etc etc.
Once you do that, not only do you A. Get mad duckets, you also B. Get to spend said duckets on some facet of the counter economy.(if you want, if that's your thing, etc)


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: Coltan L. on June 05, 2012, 07:43:05 PM
If everyone else is so far off base, there should be price discrepancies that only this fringe group can find. I'm just saying, that would be good for market anarchism. Imagine the marketing of an ancap mutual fund. Make the magic worth something.

Stranger in a Strange Land by Heinlein.  The main character's followers do exactly this.

I don't think we're in the same boat exactly.  Or at least our discovery is not as profound as those of Mike's earthling followers.  The way I see it, by embracing Ancap you've gotten yourself back to zero. 

Immersed in traditional societal/economical?/politikal views you are a substandard human being.  By substandard I mean by capability and not standard compared to society. If that makes sense. You are dumber and poorer than you could be without distortions.

By discarding all the bullshit we have mercilessly heaped on us as Americans or Westerners, we get back to 0.  Now we can focus our efforts on positive shit. Its certainly no guarantee of success of any kind. 0 is mega close to being negative again. (Shut up math nerds).

When I was a rightish Cato Libertarian, I thought I could join the State Department and change it from within.  Duuuuuuumb.  The Honduras fiasco happened (in '09?) because of our shitty State Department and i discarded that myth. I avoided a disaster instead of receiving a windfall.   

I think we have certain insights that others may not. Someone I used to do political campaigns with tried to get me all fired up about local elections.  She's pretty hot, I still could not feign interest. So one benefit is I will never wave signs again, or have to pretend a hot chick's FOTM candidate isn't a pile of dogshit.

Honestly though, if you want to have a statistically significant higher chance of success I suggest you be Asian-American, or Mormon.


Title: Re: anarchist terrorism
Post by: JustSayNoToStatism on June 06, 2012, 12:18:06 AM
If everyone else is so far off base, there should be price discrepancies that only this fringe group can find. I'm just saying, that would be good for market anarchism. Imagine the marketing of an ancap mutual fund. Make the magic worth something.

Stranger in a Strange Land by Heinlein.  The main character's followers do exactly this.

I don't think we're in the same boat exactly.  Or at least our discovery is not as profound as those of Mike's earthling followers.  The way I see it, by embracing Ancap you've gotten yourself back to zero. 

Immersed in traditional societal/economical?/politikal views you are a substandard human being.  By substandard I mean by capability and not standard compared to society. If that makes sense. You are dumber and poorer than you could be without distortions.

By discarding all the bullshit we have mercilessly heaped on us as Americans or Westerners, we get back to 0.  Now we can focus our efforts on positive shit. Its certainly no guarantee of success of any kind. 0 is mega close to being negative again. (Shut up math nerds).

When I was a rightish Cato Libertarian, I thought I could join the State Department and change it from within.  Duuuuuuumb.  The Honduras fiasco happened (in '09?) because of our shitty State Department and i discarded that myth. I avoided a disaster instead of receiving a windfall.   

I think we have certain insights that others may not. Someone I used to do political campaigns with tried to get me all fired up about local elections.  She's pretty hot, I still could not feign interest. So one benefit is I will never wave signs again, or have to pretend a hot chick's FOTM candidate isn't a pile of dogshit.

Honestly though, if you want to have a statistically significant higher chance of success I suggest you be Asian-American, or Mormon.
post of the year.