The Latest Libertarian Shillery for Russia

February 22nd, 2015   Submitted by Roman Skaskiw

Russian crudely doctored photo mh 17THE RATTLE OF SOVIET SKELETONS

Living in Ukraine, particularly since the poorly disguised Russian invasion began last April, has taught me a lot of what the Soviet Union must have been like.

Petty gangsters and vain nobodies are elevated to positions of power and status. When their Russian handlers disapprove of them, they are murdered in the street (like “Batman”), or simply vanish. Some have reappeared in Moscow doing interviews with Russian media.

Early in the Crimean invasion, a Tartar activist, Reshat Ametov, was kidnapped and his body was found covered with signs of torture. He died a painful, horrible death.

Early in the invasion of Donbas, a local, pro-Ukrainian politician, Volodymyr Rybak, was kidnapped and his body found covered with signs of torture. The reason they lead with such savagery is spelled out in Lenin’s infamous 1918 hand-written hanging order: “Do it in such a fashion that for hundreds of kilometres around the people might see, tremble.”

Civil society is actively dismantled. A distant acquaintance of mine, a petite girl who works in a bookstore and organizes literary events was followed for three days when she went home to Crimea. The agent waited for her outside her home and followed unassumingly throughout the day. I guess for Russia, she was a person of influence and they wanted to let her know they were watching.

Hate rallies are organized to intimidate dissent. (See here, here, here, here)

Propaganda leads reality in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. There is a cynical joke here that if a bunch of Russian journalists show up and turn on their cameras, get ready, because something is about to explode.

Included in the online instruction manual of Pavel Gubarev was the instruction, “Don’t pass up any opportunity to engage in some atrocity that can be blamed on the junta’s fighters.” I’ve collected these stories as evidence that Russia has been doing everything it can to create civilian massacres which can be blamed on Kyiv.

And while brutality and confusion swallows up Ukraine from the East (with no analogous treatment of Russians), prominent figures in the West make it their job to praise the Russian regime, to tirelessly repeat obvious lies, just like in Soviet times — lies which aren’t even internally consistent with their other lies. Evidence is ignored. When one talking point becomes too uncomfortable they’ll switch to the next. Often, they exactly match the language used by the Kremlin.


Chris Martenson recently wrote “What’s Really Happening in Ukraine” for the Casey Report. He wrote that US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt tweeted a “crudely doctored photo” which attempted to blame the shooting down of MH-17 on the “Russian backed separatists” (ie Russian mercenaries and military forces).

For libertarians like myself who’ve spent the last decade skeptical and critical about our own government’s false flag attacks, this is very intuitively appealing. We’re sensitive to government lies and false flags. But Chris Martenson is lying. Shamelessly. He just made this up.

Like most Kremlin talking points, this one is designed to help us believe things our intuition wants to believe.

There was no tweet by Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt with satellite imagery showing the shooting down of MH-17, and it gets even stranger the closer we look.

He’s ignoring the mountains of evidence implicating Russia in shooting down MH-17. There have been separate Dutch, German and Malaysian investigations into MH-17, all reaching the same conclusion — the Russian side did it.

This report is a particularly good read. Even barring these official investigations, the evidence against the Russians is pretty damning (collection of links) — they took credit for shooting down the plane on social media and Russian news, and then attempted to cover their tracks when they realized it was a civilian plane.

At the same time, Russia’s various lies and excuses are not even internally consistent. They can’t keep their story straight: the CIA had filled MH-17 with dead bodies, a Spanish air controller (who’s never been found, despite him creating a Twitter account after the attack) redirected MH-17 into Russian-controlled territory to cause the accident, a Ukrainian missile shot down the plane because they thought Putin was aboard, a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter (which is actually too slow to catch a 777 and has too low a ceiling) shot down MH-17.


Russian propaganda is very conscious of how memory works. They work like hell to influence first impressions — Ukrainian protesters are Nazis, Russia is not invading Crimea. They also work to dilute and re-wire past memories damaging to their image.

Take Chris Martenson’s lie. The US Ambassador did tweet satellite imagery, but not about MH-17. It was about cross-border artillery bombardments from Russia into Ukraine — something which has since been corroborated by soldier testimony and a detailed crater analysis study by a British investigative journalism group.

Let’s also consider Chris Martenson’s strange choice of words: “crudely doctored photo.” If you have a moment, please Google “MH-17” and “crudely doctored photo.”

The Kremlin briefly became a laughing stock when they released a “crudely doctored photo” of an SU-25 fighter jet (launching a missile even) at MH-17. This can’t be a coincidence. The identical choice of words is an attempt to dilute and re-wire people’s memories from scraps of things which they heard some months ago.

These propagandists produce crap faster than anyone can shovel. Their goal is not to be right or win the argument. Their goal is to distract, demoralize, effect first impression, and re-wire memories.

You couldn’t praise Ukrainians overcoming the lethal force of their government after it began killing protesters when libertarians were screaming at the tops of their lungs that we are all Nazis. You couldn’t condemn Russian’s invasion of Crimea when libertarians like Scott Horton and Daniel McAdams were insisting that it wasn’t, in fact, happening. It was all imagined, presumably.

This is why I’m trying to strike the root by questioning Chris Martenson’s credibility. He’s a shameless liar and propagandist for Russia. But I’ll make a few more arguments:


Chris Martenson writes, “Western-supported and installed leadership in Kiev is losing the campaign.” (Similarly, the secretive libertarian writer and assumed sock-puppet persona Robert Wenzel wrote, “The ‘libertarian’ supporters of the current Ukrainian government never address this fact. Can they please tell us why it is legitimate for the U.S. government to be involved in the overthrow?” Dear Robert, please review my work including “Putin’s Libertarians.” Also, who are you?)

There’s no evidence for the leadership being “Western-installed.”. I refute this theory exhaustively in “Putin’s Libertarians.” Point by point. What happened in Ukraine was a revolution by the people. All my friends were on Maidan. My lead developer would quit work every time violence flared up and drove his SUV to be on Maidan. He earns twenty five dollars an hours. (Paul Craig Roberts insisted that Maidan protesters were motivated by twenty dollars a day paid by western intelligence, and had the audacity to tell me I was wrong.) My developer, like many Ukrainians, considered it his duty.

We see a thriving Poland to the west with property rights and rule of law, and a corrupt, savage, impoverished, propaganda-saturated Russia in the east, which has for centuries worked to destroy Ukrainian identity. Russia’s leaders regularly insist that Ukraine doesn’t really exist.

We’ve been fighting Muskovite occupation since before the CIA (or even the USA) existed. So far, help from the West has been very, very little and very, very welcome.

To counter this glaring contrast between European and Russian civilizations (you can also compare the standard of living in Belarus to the Baltics), Robert Wenzel resorts to the Soviet-era rhetorical strategy of whataboutism. He argues that they’re all states, so what’s the difference? As if living in Poland is the same as living in Russia, and living in South Korea is the same as living in North Korea.

The desire for a better life, much less for survival, is not a CIA conspiracy. Does is bother these Putin libertarians that people from Putin’s inner circle have called for genocide against Ukrainians? Or that within living memory, the Russians (Bolsheviks) inflicted it — killing up to 25% of Ukraine’s population in the 20s and early 30s?

Robert Wenzel is an idiot for drawing a moral equivalence.

Chris Martenson writes, “Ukraine Hides Devastating Losses as Russia-Backed Fighters Surge Forward.”

I do think Ukraine has been minimizing the losses in a Pollyanna sort of way, but Chris manages to ignore what has largely been the story of this conflict. Russia hides its dead.

Families of killed Russian soldiers have been threatened. Journalists who’ve attempted to report on Russian casualties have been beaten to the point of hospitalization.

Russia, like the Soviet Union cannot countenance its own weakness. During WWII, Soviet soldiers who became prisoners of war were considered non-persons. According to many sources, including Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s epic Gulag Archipelago, if they were returned into Soviet hands, they’d be shipped off to Siberia.

Perhaps a similar mentality informs the arrival of portable crematories in Russian held territory. They’ll burn their dead not far from the front.

For Russia, the need to appear strong is so fundamental, it’s almost a metaphysics. In their low trust society, everybody suspects everyone else of everything. The appearance of strength is a basic necessity as a deterrence. They can’t comprehend how idealistic westerners are.

Of course, Chris Martenson writes about “civil war.”

From the very beginning, this has been an invasion, both in Crimea and in Donbas. There is a video from April, 2014 of the notorious Bezler at the seized Horlivka PD “I’m a colonel of Russian Army” he said. (Later in the war, he admitted to executing Ukrainian prisoners of war. After MH17, he vanished and re-appeared in Moscow.)

This is an invasion. There is no civil war.

The number of personal friends I have from Eastern Ukraine is not two or three, it’s in the dozens, and includes some of my closest friends. What the hell is wrong with libertarians? Who the hell are they to lecture me about the sentiments of my friends?

And if you don’t want to believe my anecdotal evidence, here is a collection of eleven different survey about sentiments in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea. Support for Russia has always been low — at most (in Donetsk), it was half the size of support for Ukraine, and by all accounts, it has dropped precipitously since people became acquainted with the brutality and lawlessness of the irregular Russian mercenaries leading the invasion.

Have you noticed that libertarian support for Russia increases in proportion to how far the libertarian lives from Russian? Libertarians from Finland to Ukraine are all appalled at the betrayal. Libertarians in Russia (those who dare speak) feel similarly. Here is an appeal by the Libertarian Party of Russia.

Yet all these Americans are telling us the people in Eastern Ukraine revolted. It’s complete garbage. Russia unleashed hell in Ukraine and propaganda in the West. There is no civil war. There never has been.

The whole thing about Ukraine’s government suppressing the Russian language is also an invention designed to appeal to our intuition, to help us believe the thing that critics of the US government want to believe. The leaders of Ukraine’s two most prominent volunteer battalions, Donbas and Azov are both Russian speakers from Eastern Ukraine.

The leaders of what Chris Martenson calls a “civil war” are all known Russian GRU agents or local gansters. They’ve been rotated frequently at suddenly, with no disruption to the invasion (because the real puppet masters are in Moscow).

Chris Martenson writes, “But the people of Ukraine have to be kicking themselves right about now. Not only did they fall for the rosy promises of change and hope peddled by the West, they also believed the West would be a better partner for them than Russia.”

Go to hell, Chris Martenson, you Kremlin shill. We are fighting for survival. Almost nobody, not ever among their former supporters, believes Russia is better for Ukraine.

The big dismay that most Ukrainians express is that the West won’t offer more support. So far help has been very little and very appreciated.


This is what Russian propaganda does. It distracts you and consumes your time. After picking apart their Gordian knots of lies, there is little room left to recall the kidnapped and tortured Protestant pastors in Donetsk, kidnapped Catholic priests in Crimea, the almost two dozen Crimean Tartars who have gone missing (out of a population of only 250,000), how they’ve burned Ukrainian books, banned Ukrainian instruction in school, replaced bilingual (Russian and Ukrainians) signs with Russian ones, nationalized over a billion dollars worth of private property in Crimea and redistributed it to their gangsters, posted vidoes of Ukrainian POWs being beated and humiliated, of dead Ukrainians with their hands bound, seemingly executed, their threats to bomb, burn, and/or invade Kharkiv, Kyiv, Lviv, Warsaw, Tallinn, Berlin, London, and Washington DC.

This is what Chris Martenson is defending. Libertarians who support and apologize for Putin are full of crap.

And before anybody listens to the Russian comment trolls who will accuses me of bias, please keep mind my previous positions:

– I (like many libertarians) wanted Russia to be an alternative to the West. Russia makes it very easy for us to believe that it can be an alternative, especially those of us who don’t live close enough to see their savagery and North Korea style, alternate reality lies. In Russia, over 100,000 small business owners and entrepreneurs are in prison for falling out of favor with authorities.

– I wrote an essay called “Why I’m against Ukraine joining the EU and you should be too.”

– Even after the Russians annexed Crimea, I wrote published an essay on the Daily Beast about how the west should still avoid involvement. (I no longer feel this way.)


How is it possible for libertarianism to be so full of Russian propaganda?

Contrary to James Bond movies, the KGB did very, very little espionage. The KGB effected the message. They identified dissenting media everywhere and infiltrated. They identified influential people everywhere (including my acquaintance, the bookstore employee in Crimea) and either suppressed or amplified the message.

In the famous “Deception was my job” interview, former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov describes how he traveled to California to meet Maharishi Mahesh, leader of the Transcendental Meditation Movement. They felt meditation encouraged Americans to withdraw from society and made them less likely to resist Soviet influence.

Watch it, or watch the Soviet Active Measures interviews to understand how influencing foreign media is a priority for Russian intelligence, and how deliberately they proceed.

If the KGB was that interested in meditation, imagine how interested today’s KGB (the FSB) is in libertarianism everywhere that it intersects with anti-Americanism and military withdrawal.

Libertarians, you are being lied to, and you should feel just as shocked and betrayed by this as you were when you discovered your government was lying to you.

132 Responses to “The Latest Libertarian Shillery for Russia”

  1. GenghisNo Gravatar says:

    What should our (and the Wests) response be?

    Should we send weapons and armed forces to the Ukraine to fight the Russians?

    Should we behead the propagandists spewing their vile lies?

    Should we ignore the whole mess?

    Should we only buy gasoline from the Saudi’s?

    Enquiring minds want to know.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      There is no “we”, there are only individuals responsible for their own actions, nothing else.

      A) If you wish, you may send some of your money to Kiev, to help it fight or pay off its debt. Honest warning: that money may never reach its intended target.
      B) If you wish, you may join a brigade of pro-Kiev volunteers and start hurling small or large metal objects in the direction of anti-Kiev forces. That comes with risks. You may have to bring your own Kevlar vest and even with the vest on you are likely to merely make a contribution to the fertility of Ukrainian soil.
      C) You may blog like there is no tomorrow. D) Other options I have not thought of.

      If you are not willing to do A) and/or B), then you have no moral justification to entice others to do so. Same is true of Roman.

      • GenghisNo Gravatar says:

        John, “If you are not willing to do A) and/or B), then you have no moral justification to entice others to do so. Same is true of Roman.”

        How does contributing money or joining in the fight give someone a moral justification? It doesn’t. For a person trying to use logic, your specious argument is sorely lacking.

        This has nothing to do with morals, or logical arguments it is all about how to deal with the use of force.

        History has taught us that their is only one way to deal with dictators like Putin and that is to counter force with force, which in this case can have some devastating effects on both sides.

        No, I think Putin is being countered effectively. The Saudi’s have cut off his air supply and the Ukrainians are depleting his resources. Russia will annex part of the Ukrainian area and declare victory.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          “How does contributing money or joining in the fight give someone a moral justification? It doesn’t. For a person trying to use logic, your specious argument is sorely lacking.”

          G, suppose I say “why don’t “we” fight Putin?” That right there is an issue for me. Volunteering your life and your resources is one thing, but suggesting that the government first turns the guns inwards and forces a tax or borrows from the future generations and/or institutes a draft and then turn the newly acquired guns and resources outwards, killing people whom you have never met and who did not affect your life personally – doing that while remaining on a couch is hypocritical and immoral. Many political debates become simpler once you are not allowed to use this magic word “we”.

          “History has taught us that their is only one way to deal with dictators like Putin and that is to counter force with force, which in this case can have some devastating effects on both sides.”

          Again, who is “us”? What is history? There is like 5000 years of recorded history with hundreds of countries and billions of total participants. Have you really looked at every case?

          I can argue other points from the same “history”:
          1) American involvement in WW1 helped Hitler rise to power.
          2) Toppling of Saddam Hussein or Gadaffi did not bring about peace and stability in the region. Iraq is a total mess 10+ years later. Lybia has just fallen back to pro-Gadaffi forces.

          There are lots of examples where the US fvcked up, even with the best of intentions. It is not at all obvious to me that countering force with force is a good idea or is effective.

          I will grant you that Putin is a dictator and a sociopath. Guess what – Poroshenko and Obama and lots of people in their circles are also sociopaths. I will not grant you that Putin is any worse than Poroshenko or Obama. You can look at the magnitude for example – at how many body bags US and Russia managed to produce in one decade. US leads by an order of magnitude. Why is it that “we”, “the West” get to create a bloody mess of a planet and to this day get a free pass?

          Before asking whether confronting Putin would be effective, I would ask whether this is even morally justifiable, say if you possessed superior magic weapons that turn enemy’s tanks into trees and made soldiers fall asleep. Would intervening be morally right? If so, WHY???

          For many things that you can accuse Moscow of, I can accuse Kiev and Washington of similar or worse crimes. It may look like I am taking a specific side here, but that is because you seem to already have taken a side. I could just as easily argue the opposite view had you been a Russian zombie patriot.

          • GenghisNo Gravatar says:


            “How does contributing money or joining in the fight give someone a moral justification? It doesn’t. For a person trying to use logic, your specious argument is sorely lacking.”

            G, suppose I say “why don’t “we” fight Putin?” That right there is an issue for me. Volunteering your life and your resources is one thing, but suggesting that the government first turns the guns inwards and forces a tax or borrows from the future generations and/or institutes a draft and then turn the newly acquired guns and resources outwards, killing people whom you have never met and who did not affect your life personally – doing that while remaining on a couch is hypocritical and immoral. Many political debates become simpler once you are not allowed to use this magic word “we”.

            When did hypocritical and immoral become based on the magic word ‘we’?
            Your ‘argument’ is incoherent.

            “History has taught us that their is only one way to deal with dictators like Putin and that is to counter force with force, which in this case can have some devastating effects on both sides.”

            Again, who is “us”? What is history? There is like 5000 years of recorded history with hundreds of countries and billions of total participants. Have you really looked at every case?

            Again, not even a rational argument.

            I can argue other points from the same “history”:
            1) American involvement in WW1 helped Hitler rise to power.
            2) Toppling of Saddam Hussein or Gadaffi did not bring about peace and stability in the region. Iraq is a total mess 10+ years later. Lybia has just fallen back to pro-Gadaffi forces.

            There are lots of examples where the US fvcked up, even with the best of intentions. It is not at all obvious to me that countering force with force is a good idea or is effective.


            Who said countering force with force is a good idea or effective? Again you are begging the question.


            I will grant you that Putin is a dictator and a sociopath. Guess what – Poroshenko and Obama and lots of people in their circles are also sociopaths. I will not grant you that Putin is any worse than Poroshenko or Obama. You can look at the magnitude for example – at how many body bags US and Russia managed to produce in one decade. US leads by an order of magnitude. Why is it that “we”, “the West” get to create a bloody mess of a planet and to this day get a free pass?

            It is almost fun trying to figure out how many false statements or misdirections you can put in one sentence. : ) Yes there are decades where the US has killed more people than Russia has, but the US will never kill as many people as Russia has killed.


            Before asking whether confronting Putin would be effective, I would ask whether this is even morally justifiable, say if you possessed superior magic weapons that turn enemy’s tanks into trees and made soldiers fall asleep. Would intervening be morally right? If so, WHY???

            Magic weapons that turn the enemies tanks into trees and make soldiers fall asleep? Can I borrow some of your meds? That has nothing to do with the issue of intervening.

            Morality has nothing to do with whether we should intervene or not.

            Is there any argument that you have made that isn’t based on a lie?


            For many things that you can accuse Moscow of, I can accuse Kiev and Washington of similar or worse crimes. It may look like I am taking a specific side here, but that is because you seem to already have taken a side. I could just as easily argue the opposite view had you been a Russian zombie patriot.

            Actually you seem incapable of making any kind of a cognizant argument.

            Do you really think that you can legitimately accuse Kiev of invading Russia? I can’t wait to see the bizarre answer to that.

            • JohnNo Gravatar says:

              Genghis, here is how I perceived your reply – I found it condescending and it seems to me that knowingly or unknowingly you twisted many of my words, put words in my mouth that I did not use (I can illustrate with example). If you did not understand some of my points, then either I did not express them clearly, or you did not read it carefully enough, or both, or we use very different styles. I believe that this miss-communication can be corrected when both participants are willing. I do not mind giving it another shot – rephrasing my statements and trying to address points of confusion.

              My straight question to you is – are you interested in a rational debate with the purpose of trying to find the truth, of discovering something you did not know, correcting or reaffirming your view depending on the outcome or are you interested in insulting me and feeling intellectually superior, whether justified or not?

              • GenghisNo Gravatar says:

                John, “My straight question to you is – are you interested in a rational debate with the purpose of trying to find the truth, of discovering something you did not know, correcting or reaffirming your view depending on the outcome or are you interested in insulting me and feeling intellectually superior, whether justified or not?”

                You began your incoherent rant by twisting my words and inventing fanciful strawman arguments. You have offered nothing new or truthful to the discussion and seem incapable of even seeing the truth. I will give you points for being a semi interesting troll, mostly in the many varied and interesting ways you sidestep the issues.

                I am afraid though that you wouldn’t know how to poor the piss out of your boots if the instructions were printed on the heel.

                I suppose I have to be more blunt so as to be unequivocally understood by you, if that is possible. No I am not interested in any views you may have. I am not going to allow you to misrepresent my words though.

                • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                  “No I am not interested in any views you may have. I am not going to allow you to misrepresent my words though.”

                  I believe that I gave you the benefit of a doubt and extended an olive branch by allowing for a possibility that all of miss-communication was on my side.

                  Well, frankly, your personal opinion is not as important to me as the impression that other readers get. I would like to sway you, but if I cannot do that, I can still talk to other readers and they will decide.

                  So, unless you break Seth King’s server with a hammer or the newly passed “net neutrality” causes this site to be shut down, this reply will be out there for a while.

                  “I am afraid though that you wouldn’t know how to poor the piss out of your boots if the instructions were printed on the heel.”

                  This is the sort of phrase that makes me think that
                  in this specific instance and a few others.

                  I did disagree with you, perhaps was not very careful at times but I do not believe that I stooped this low in my replies.

                  I also believe that either you happened to be in a bad mood, or it is so important to you to maintain a self-image of a wise person that you cannot deal with someone challenging your opinions – pretty much all of them.

                  Well, we are discussing politics, so this is to be expected. Frankly, when I was younger I liked to discuss politics and once yelled at a person for being “stupid and wrong” or so I thought. Later I changed my views 180 degrees, so the other person was right. That person was not someone that I knew well, so I did not initiate contact again just to admit that, but I knew that I was 100% wrong, and was 100% convinced that I was right, and was pushing this idea very strongly. That was a very useful lesson. I would not like to repeat this primarily not because I fear having bad reputation but because I want to get to the truth. Have you ever been wrong? If so, would you ever admit it?

                  As imperfect as I am (who is perfect), I will not yield an inch, sir, not unless you present me with what I believe are superior arguments.

    • HReardenNo Gravatar says:

      We? our? You and who else are you referring to as “we”? Why should you and the others you refer to as “we” do anything regarding this matter?

      • GenghisNo Gravatar says:

        HReardenNo Gravatar says:
        “We? our? You and who else are you referring to as “we”? Why should you and the others you refer to as “we” do anything regarding this matter?”

        Of course, but the bigger question is what should be done? The problem with many things in life, this included, is that doing nothing is doing something, it is granting permission.

        It is the same problem not voting has, it grants the winners permission to rule. It is true that the non voters do not grant that permission, but it is assumed, and that is all that matters if there is no opposition.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Usually you have horse first, then carriage; trial and only then punishment that depends on the outcome of said trial.

          • GenghisNo Gravatar says:

            John the propagandist, says “Usually you have horse first, then carriage; trial and only then punishment that depends on the outcome of said trial.”

            Yes but that is another straw man. First you have the war, then the winning country puts the other country on trial for war crimes.

            Of course you know that, but for some reason you think the readers here are gullible fools and will lap up anything that spews from your orifice.

            Sorry, no one is fooled. Why don’t you take your non sequiturs over to DU?

            • JohnNo Gravatar says:

              “John the propagandist, says “Usually you have horse first, then carriage; trial and only then punishment that depends on the outcome of said trial.””

              Plenty of Ad Hominem still. It is up to the readers to decide who is and who is not a propagandist.

              “First you have the war, then the winning country puts the other country on trial for war crimes.”

              Because this is not a very precise statement (“first you have” – who is “you” here?), I could interpret your statements in different ways. I do agree that history is very biased and that usually the victorious side gets to write a good chunk of it. This observation is symmetric. If Russians win in a conflict (at least prior to the days of mass media and internet), then they get to write the history of this conflict. If America wins a conflict,- America gets to write the history of it. … If Ukraine wins a conflict – they get to write the history of it.

              Might makes right – that is an entirely symmetrical concept. Any country/group/party could potentially play the role of winner and looser.

              It seems that you are premising your logic on the fact that Russia is the main aggressor in the whole Ukrainian mess since November-ish of 2013. If the premise is correct, then the rest of your logic sort of follows. It seems to me that we are disagreeing over this premise. I am saying – “Not so fast. Let’s examine the situation from multiple angles, let’s look at the arguments and evidence from the other side”.

              “Of course you know that, but for some reason you think the readers here are gullible fools and will lap up anything that spews from your orifice.”

              “Of course you know that” – I would not be so sure. To quote an action movie character – assumption is the mother of all screw-ups. Here is a hint: I cannot read your mind. In order for you to be heard, you need to communicate. This communication will work best when you concentrate more on arguments and less on me or other distractions.

              “but for some reason you think the readers here are gullible fools and will lap up anything that spews from your orifice.”

              Even if I were wrong, you could not know my intentions and the exact thought process. I disagree with you here. The burden of proof is on you.

              “spew from your orfice” – that is Ad Hominem again.

              “Sorry, no one is fooled.”

              Have you had a chance to sample a reaction of my readers? Care to share the source and the result of your findings?

              “Why don’t you take your non sequiturs over to DU?”

              I do not know what exactly you mean by DU. Either way, I am unlikely to follow your suggestion – most people are stubborn this way.

              Let’s look at how wiki defines “does not follow”:

              Non sequitur (Latin for “it does not follow”), in formal logic, is an argument in which its conclusion does not follow from its premises.[1] In a non sequitur, the conclusion could be either true or false, but the argument is fallacious because there is a disconnection between the premise and the conclusion.

              I maintain that we implicitly or explicitly disagree over a premise. If your premise is incorrect, then your argument also incorrect (this is also true of my or any other argument). I claim that the intent of my “horse before carriage” phrase is to go dig deeper, to go back to “the drawing board” and examine the premises.

              I am glad that you are familiar with names of at least some logical fallacies – there is a good chance that we can both agree that employing them is a bad thing. I would ask you to pay more attention to their definitions and usage and in general – please “argue the point, not the person”. That increases the quality of the argument and hopefully the level of enjoyment of the reader (or so I hope).

        • HReardenNo Gravatar says:

          I have no control over what others do. It is not my responsibility to do anything regarding this situation that is happening far away from where I am.

  2. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Oh my freaking God! I do not suppose you have taken the course as I suggested you do.
    I am going to have to do a close analysis on this piece of manipulating sophistry. This time you will have no excuses – you have encountered my arguments before. Also, Mr. Ranger Ukrainian patriot, you have no excuse for not joining the Ukrainian army and experiencing the front lines in person. Although, given the current rate of defeat, demoralization and draft dodging, males of age 36 or 38 or however old you are will eventually be called upon, worry not.

    It is not the fact that you criticize Russia and Putin, etc. that I have a problem with. It is how you cherry pick your evidence excluding one that support the opposite view, how you extrapolate a few data points that support your view, trying to paint a larger picture.

    An honest, rational debater would never proceed to make a case the way you do. When I have time, I will peer-review this whole thing one paragraph at a time. It will take a lot of work. Fellow readers, look out for my comments.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Dear readers, people try to manipulate us with logical fallacies very frequently. You owe it to yourself to learn to recognize non-arguments and fake arguments.

      Here are a few more links that rational readers can equip themselves with to sort out truth from fantasy. – contains a VERY long list.

      Here is a good primer on how logical fallacies are commonly used in politics and advertising:

      More examples from the fallacy project:

      You can find many more examples on youtube in video format and online in general.

      Having explored some of these, you now should be well equipped to follow my deconstruction of Roman’s “arguments”. I have merely scanned Roman’s article (and it looks like much of the same), so I have plenty of ammunition to use against him, but some of his arguments may be legit. I will try to give him credit where credit is due. If you speak logic, then you should be able to call out BS in both of our writings.

      Unfortunately I do not have a lot of free time, so I will get to this article whenever I get some and I will analyze one piece at a time.

      Thank you for reading.

      • Samuel SpadeNo Gravatar says:

        A fallacy is anything that challenges my personal philosophy. So don’t taze me, Bro.

        History is fallacy. Because truth is the first casualty of war. And virtually all history rubs against one or another war. People* love their wars, and revere Monday-Morning-Quarterbacking about this or some other war. “…If Hitler had done this, Russia would have been incapable of doing that…” (2 fallacies here [3, perhaps]**).

        If you do not agree with me, you’re wrong.


        *OK. You caught me. “People” is a collectivist and a fallacious non-sequitur. We should quit using the we word.

        **1) “Hitler” (the man) spent his time in warm offices fooling around with blond Arian females — “he” probably never visited a “war front” in Russia; 2) “Hitler” did not represent all individuals from a place commonly referred to as “Germany”, and 3) “Russia” is a mindless reification (behind which millions of abhorrent murderers have shielded themselves from blame) — a fallacy not covered in most “fallacy” directories.

  3. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Hehe, thank you Roman for bringing my attention to Chris Martenson’s article: happening-in-ukraine

    There are so many prominent free thinkers speaking out against yet another US meddling in foreign affairs (Ukraine is already not the latest), that it is hard to keep track of them all. Roman’s conspiracy theory (that most prominent libertarians/anarchists/independent minds are either confused or sold their soul to Putin) is growing in complexity every week, as yet another person points out the insanity of provoking a nuclear nation. Once again, Chris Martenson’s article is here: happening-in-ukraine
    Check it out, everyone!

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Would someone who does not mind semi-exposing their identity leave a link to this site article on Chris Martenson’s article? That way Chris can respond to the accusations directly. I do not want to register with Disqus or Google or Facebook or Twitter. It would be very nice of him to let Chris know that his views have been challenged.

      While on the topic of confused or sold out libertarians – here is another one. Stefan Moleneux has voiced his criticism of Ukraine as well. Roman, why don’t you pick an intellectual fight with him. I dare you!

  4. Nikos SakkasNo Gravatar says:

    Having traveled in Kiev and Moscow several times and enjoyed the wonderful European ambience and people of both places I find the developments in Ukraine utterly sad. There is no doubt that Russia has no idea of what democracy and an open society is about; it never had. A most sad and unfortunate trajectory in history, from the the Tsars to Stalin and now Putin. Among the richest places on earth in terms of natural and intellectual resources, it is run by mafia like oligarchs and KGB offspring.

    Its quite difficult for outsiders like most of us here to trace the line of responsibility in the events there. And because of this we are often tempted to trace it somewhere in the middle. Or to sympathize with the weakest part, Ukraine in this case. I would rather avoid both these natural inclinations. What I can only be sure about that is that a good deal of the responsibility for this recent escalation lies with Russia.

    Roman, unaware and far away as we are, it is difficult for most of us here not to resonate as talking from a lecture room, while bullets or bombs may flying over your head as you script your posts here. As someone that loves your country (as I do Russia- where my best authors and musicians come from- as much as hate the mafia state up there) I think you should try to end the escalation and seek a compromise out of this. Some religious bullshit is at the back of it; if you put this aside I doubt you will have so much fundamental to quarrel about with Russians (not any more than French had to settle with Germans some decades ago). And some more demanding task would be to see that you cast on our everyday more stuff Made in Ukraine. That’s the really big trick, as Chinese, Korean (south of course) and recently Vietnamese are, so peacefully, teaching us.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Take a look at the map of Ukraine and surrounding areas. The thing is that Roman is nowhere near the conflict area. He does not get to smell the burning bodies of Donbass residents. He lives in Lviv, and he is one hour drive away from Hrebenne, Poland if he takes E372 North, similarly about an hour drive if he heads West on M10 towards Korcowa, Poland, also about 80 minutes West if he takes M11 to Medyka.

      By contrast, it would take him 13.5 hours to drive to Debal’tseve, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Ukraine and over 16 hours to reach Luhansk.

      Separatists are very willing to sign peace deals and have no ambitions beyond Luhansk and Donetsk. The only way to threaten Lviv from there is via a war plane or an ICBM. The only danger to Roman’s life is a draft now instituted by Kiev. Since Roman the Ranger is not volunteering to fight, worry not – his air-conditioned office with a leather couch is not under threat of bombings or food shortages.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Note that even Venice, Italy appears a closer ride by car that the front lines of DNR / LNR. Baltic sea is as close as 9 hours away while reaching Odessa on the Black Sea would take about 10 hours. Athens, Greece is 21 hours away. This distance is non-Euclidean for the availability and the quality of the roads differs. Nonetheless, you should have a better idea of where Roman is situated.

        • Nikos SakkasNo Gravatar says:

          Obviously Roman is not under life threat; still this was not so central in my arguments to justify your geography detail. For sure he is much more concerned and affected by the situation there than either of us which makes your wording come to me as unnaturally extreme.

          • JohnNo Gravatar says:

            Which wording do you find extreme?

            I am a pacifist, never been in a military, never killed anyone, rarely bragged about being tough or being some sort of a hero. I do not recall trying to reach some sort of social status by spreading stories about myself. I believe that nationalism is a silly idea that is exploited by sociopaths who themselves do not believe in it, but rather see an opportunity to gain power, wealth control by utilizing it. I am against war. I hate seeing casualties on both sides.

            Now, Roman (and I can back up most of these claims):
            * has been deployed in either Iraq of Afghanistan or both as a ranger.
            * has claimed that the invasion of one of those countries was definitely justified.
            * Likes to show odd that he is ex-military. Check out his twitter page – it used to show a pic of him in a military jeep.
            * Admitted that he did not want to re-enlist, so he got what he could out of the military what he could – max benefits, hiking in Afghan mountains.
            * Does not forget to mention that he is a vet, and expects respect.
            * Unlike honest people like Adam Kokesh does not frankly say that he was participating in war crimes for Dick Cheney’s benefit. Rather likes to portray a picture of brave, heroic warrior who will put his life on a line when a duty calls, but that … I am guessing he was misused and misused.
            * Openly cheers on Ukrainian servicemen leaving to the front lines whether they go voluntarily or against their will. He feels sad when they die, lets others know on twitter.
            * Recited a poem that essentially said “we used to beat Muscovites and color our rivers red with their blood and we shall do so again” in Ukrainian on twitter.
            * Regardng tragic events in Odessa he tweeted “proud to be a Uki (or Ukrainian, I forget the exact word).
            * Roman likes nationalism, makes a case for it in writing.
            * Roman gets a lot of joy out of achievements of other Ukrainians, be they chess players or footballers. He likes honor by association.

            All the while NOT volunteering to fight in the war despite Poroshenko desperately looking for guys like hims, since would be conscripts of military age like to see what the neighboring countries look like, and NOT visiting Donetsk or Luhansk areas to talk to the locals.

            He does not get my respect. He is not even that good source of information. Just because he lives technically inside Ukraine, does not mean that he specifically gets data that nobody else does. An objective, rational mind living in Ukraine would be a treasure trove of information. Roman ain’t that person.

          • JohnNo Gravatar says:

            Just to clarify, even if I sound like a condescending c_nt, that was not the intent. Europeans tend to know the map of Europe much better than Americans do. I have no problem with you, your recent article was just fine and you have not given me any reasons to doubt your judgement or treat you with kiddy gloves. I agree, the way it came out may sound like it, but you are not the intended target of my “rage”. It is the though of Roman portrayed as some sort of war victim / hero that grinds my gears.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Correction due to new information – Roman is not in immediate danger of starvation, unlike many of the people in the East who depended on Humanitarian aid from Russia.
        Kiev introduces rationing, as falling hryvnia causes shopping binge

        Ukrainian supermarkets have imposed rationing of basic products after the drastic fall in the value of the hryvnia. The currency has lost 70 percent of its value causing people to stockpile food and buy electronics as a hedge.
        Restrictions apply for goods such as cooking oil, flour and sugar, Ukraine’s news agency UNN reports Wednesday. Retailers may sell no more than two bottles of sunflower oil, and two packs of buckwheat per customer and, depending on the store, from 3 to 5 kilograms of flour and sugar.
        Bread, rice, potatoes, meat and milk are not yet rationed, but are not so plentiful on supermarket shelves.
        Inflation in Ukraine is expected to reach 27 percent by the end of 2015.

  5. DerekNo Gravatar says:

    Great article Roman, thanks for posting!
    Unfortunately conspiracy theories are probably the single biggest reason that libertarian ideas arent spreading faster. Several prominent figures are hi-jacking the movement and there isnt a lot that we can do to stop them from ruining the brand. Keep up the good work.

  6. JohnNo Gravatar says:


    Here is the beginning of my close analysis of this article. I believe it will reveal many inconsistencies, shortcuts and fallacies in this piece of Roman’s writing. If so, then it is not my problem but Roman’s. He is a well-educated adult in his late thirties who by now should be able to combine his engineering education, writer’s education and training, life experience and inside knowledge of Ukraine to produce a high-quality, rational, fact-based debate … or is he? Please note that Roman and I butted heads before in his last two essays on Ukraine on his site, so he should be familiar with what I am about to do. With this foreknowledge Roman still chose (unless he is not free to chose) to write this essay the way he did.

    Let’s start with a title:
    “The Latest Libertarian Shillery for Russia”. Let’s parse that phrase. What is Shillery? The act of being a shill, I suppose. What is a shill? From “A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.”

    Another source: – “a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.”

    I think these are good enough definitions.So, let’s rephrase this title while trying to maintain the meaning.

    “The Latest Libertarian Shillery for Russia”

    So one claim is that the so-called libertarians tend to shill for Russia AND Roman is going to illustrate one or few more examples of that shillery, and not just illustrate it but do so convincingly, as in “winning the case”. Implicitly, all libertarians referred to in this article who appear to agree with Kremlin are accused of being Russia’s (probably more precisely Kremlin’s) shills, e.g. they are:

    * “a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization”.


    * “a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.”

    I hope I got this claim correctly, as I plan on trying to debunk it or parts of it. I invite readers to correct me where I may have been wrong, but I urge you – keep your comments within the scope. The only phrase that I parsed and analyzed so far is the title, that is it.


  7. ssdfbNo Gravatar says:

    Where are the proofs dear gentelmens?
    “Took away ukr signs” yes because in russia we dont have signs in ukranian. Cause everybody knows russian.
    By the way u have yr propaganda too and it is no better than ours:) lots of lies too, so in the ukranian tv. There is no thruth anywhere. In ukraine they forbidden rus channels, rus journalists cant have an accreditation there now. It is not democratical. Russia dont forbid any journalist works and we can watch and read whatever we want. In ukr they fired people from journalist job if they denied to obey to government opinion. Cool. Isnt it. (There is a video) america by their not-give-a-single-shit is just hilarious. They make more sanctions and makes worse to Es and themself. In the end. Try to be adequate. Read not western papers and tv. Watch videos. Compare and contrast the information. Dont believe to EVERYTHING. In every country media is controlled by a government even in usa.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Please elaborate on the following, as I am not sure what specifically you are referring to:

      “Took away ukr signs” yes because in russia we dont have signs in ukranian. Cause everybody knows russian.

      • ssdfbNo Gravatar says:

        That was about crimea. I just couldnt copy that moment from the article, made it too short. Sorry

        • ssdfbNo Gravatar says:

          And proofs about russian tanks really operating by real regular armies of russia. Saw two days ago Holland didnt find any sign of army. And america tells she knows that rus army is there but they dont show proper photos.they have Pentagon, satellites but they still dont show anything. Like everybody forgot about Malazian plane, which america and holland dont say the real offender. Was it ukr army or rebelers. They have evidence but people will never find out the truth. So the world can dibate endlessly…

  8. BogdanNo Gravatar says:

    Yes, we have to make our voice heard. I don’t know any ukrainian or russian libertarian to support Putin and his policies. But for some reason some american “libertarians” think they know better. Apparantly, there is some kind of russian state propaganda through authors like McAdams and Martenson

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      You forgot Ron Paul. He could not figure out a way to stack real cheddar in his many decades in politics, so he found a job as a Kremlin troll. In dollar terms he is not making much, but he happily stashes rubles under his mattress because Putin convinced him that rubles are sound money.

      And Chris Martenson hit a similar fate. Could not find a use for his PhD in pathology, MBA and knowledge of neurotoxicology. He did manage to rise to his highest level of incompetence:

      I was a 40-year-old professional who has worked his way up to Vice President of a large, international Fortune 300 company and is living in a waterfront, 5 bathroom house in Mystic, CT, which is mostly paid off. My three young children are either in or about to enter public school, and my portfolio of investments is being managed by a broker at a large institution.

      Then, after being hit by Zamboni on the head while watching a Bruins game, Chris lost 50 IQ points and very shortly fired from his job. He moved in to the trailer of his wife’s grandfather, who was killed by lightning earlier that year. The trailer came with a 10 x 20 ft plot of land, which Chris passionately covered with a crop of stinging nettle. He would often mumble to himself – “Russians eat the nettle, this is why they are so strong” – his wife told to Brian Williams during a private interview. In addition to being obsessed with stinging nettle, Chris also became obsessed with exponential growth.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        I hit submit prematurely. Anyway,
        After watching his favorite pumkin that he stored for the winter rot in a matter of days, Chris also became obsessed with exponential growth. To date he mate 455 videos on this topic on Youtube. Chris’s net worth entered the red within 6 months of losing a job, so he was all too happy to accept an offer when Putin came along.

        This is the story of how Ron Paul and Chris Martenson and many other libertarians sold out to Putin. Putin preys on retarded and unfortunate libertarians and offers them small glimpses of hope.

        What is your version of how Putin sways libertarians to the dark side?

    • Ukraine has revolution supported by Western governments (all of which despise and would squash with extreme prejudice any attempt at secession). Several fishy goings-on during revolution. Many extreme right people involved. Etc.
      Russia, on its border, doesnt like the developments, is accused of “invading” Crimea despite having had permission to be there. Fortunately the West has no habit of doing any of this in the Middle East or countries like Mali in the last 5-10 years.

      Oh, what’s a libertarian to do????

      I know, let’s join the world wide witch hunt and propaganda war against Russia, instigated by the blights of a free and peaceful world, aka the UN, NATO, the US, the EU and all the other notorious meddlesome sociopaths that justify all bloody interventions in other countries’ busineses (and have so repeatedly with lies).
      Because they are so renowned for their honesty, truth telling and their love of peace, liberty, human rights and human dignity itself.

      Let’s face it, even as immoral as geopolitical conflicts are regardless of who the aggressors are, the problems between Russia and Ukraine are CHICKEN FEED compared to everything the U.S. has done in the last 15 years. And we libertarians are supposed to get into a hissy fit over it just because hypocritical statists everywhere in the world are screaming for Russian blood?

      Oh and Skaskiw:

      “Even after the Russians annexed Crimea, I wrote published an essay on the Daily Beast about how the west should still avoid involvement. (I no longer feel this way.)”

      Of course you don’t. Let OTHER people clean up your mess is what all arm chair pro-interventionists say. Well, you’ve written on an anarchist blog, and you just made clear that you feel that Western Governments, who rob their people for the funding of immoral activities, should get those same people, indirectly involved in your problems, and to pay for them. And you still make an appeal to libertarians? What a laugh.

      This whole attempt at trying to depict Russia as evil is funny too. Libertarians already know Putin and the Russian state are immoral, because we know ALL leaders and states are, including Ukraine. So the matter of economic freedom in Russia (to name an example) is entirely irrelevant to this subject, as last i heard, virtually NO country is a friend of the free market.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Ranger Skaskiw is a hypocrite. He is playing the “I am American” card when it suits him, and an “I am Ukrainian” when that suits him better. To simplify – he is either an American or Ukrainian or both. That should cover it.

        Now, he is advocating for both Ukrainian conscripts and American professional soldiers to participate in a hot conflict, and yet he himself is sitting this one out.

        He would sooner have other Ukrainians conscripted at a gun point or other armed American idiots pour cross the ocean before he lifts his own ass and participates in the battles.

        Skaskiw was trained as a ranger, still having wet dreams about that school according to him. There is nothing wrong with Skaskiw medically. He was not wounded or paralyzed. He practices some form of wrestling. He is a prime candidate to step up to his patriotic duty and be a soldier but he won’t do that. Hey, it only costs $1,000.00 USD in bribes to skip the mobilization. Back when Roman was in the US military he realized that it was a bad deal, that he is being used.

        Well, if the US military is using you, then what the hell is under-staffed, under-funded, under-armed, under-everything Ukrainian army doing? There is no way that Roman (who is over 35) does not understand this. There is a huge difference between what he says and what he does. He is thus a hypocrite.


  9. Chris ReardonNo Gravatar says:

    Because I don’t know much about the situation on the ground, I will speak to an interesting subtext to this whole affair: The Ukrainian genocide (   Let’s posit a world in which Germany and Israel share a border and presume for a moment that the relative power relationship put’s the Germans in the place of Russia and the Israeli’s in the place of Ukraine. Should we immediately presume the Germans are in the right in “retaking” Israeli territory, even if America supported the Israeli’s? I think not. American’s, and especially American libertarians, should remember that the Russians starved to death and slaughtered millions of Ukrainians. They should not be presumed to be welcomed guests. They should be presumed to be UN-f-ing-welcolme, no?

    As I said, I don’t know the facts well enough to judge the “good side” from the “bad side.” However, I think that American libertarians might not be so strident and thoughtless in support of one of the largest dictatorial states in the world. Also, I know Roman personally from his time in the US and never knew him as anything but a straightforward, honest man.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      You presented wrong analogy leading to a wrong question.

      Here, I will fill you in on Ukrainian demographics – -one-map-helps-explain-ukraines-protests/

      The DNR/ LNR areas happened to be where there is:
      * mostly Russian-speaking
      * significant ethnic Russian population
      Also Crimea has ethnic Russian majority,
      Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk voted mostly for Yanukovich in 2004 and 2010.

      Note that Yanukovich got 96.20% of the popular vote in 2004 in the area thnat includes Luhansk and his opponent, Timoshenko got 91.79% of the popular vote in the area including Lviv, where Roman now lives.

      Lviv and Luhansk are in many ways polar opposites of each other. The numbers speak for themselves.

      Also, I interacted with Ron Paul and never knew him as anything but a straightforward, honest man. I also watched many hours of lectures and interviews with Chris Martenson and my opinion of him was never anything less than positive, respectful and humble.

  10. Chris ReardonNo Gravatar says:

    Hey John,
    Was waiting for you to respond on this, as you have responded to every (positive) comment on this thread. Lets just say I reject your rejection of my analogy and leave it at that. You have not made an argument, and as I have allready made one, I will not respond to your non-argument.
    Just so you know, and I am NOT a commenter in bad faith. I (also) met RP, and I’m a great admirer. I vocally supported Dr. Paul in 2008 from the day he announced, when nobody did (as did the writer of this article). I spoke at a very hostile Repub caucus for Dr. Paul in 08 and 12 and very much admire the man. I bought Martensens book and buy into his arguments about diminishing returns on commodities, mining, and exponential growth.
    However, I don’t think Roman is a man commenting in bad faith. If I am mistaken, so be it, but I will hang my hat at Roman’s door for the time being.
    From your own links:

    “Lviv was depolonised mainly through Soviet-arranged population exchange from 1944–46.[76] Those that remained found themselves having lost their state status and becoming an ethnic minority. By 1959 Poles made up only 4% of the population after Ukrainians, Russians and Jews.[76] The Polish population underwent significant assimilation; in 1989 40% considered Ukrainian as their mother tongue, 15% Russian.[76] During Soviet times two Polish schools continued to function: № 10 (with 8 grades) and № 24 (with 10 grades).[76]

    Seriously though, I don;t see how this Wiki article supports your perspective.

    Although I think both sides of this argument might be carried away by emotion, I inherently side with the Ukrainians. When I see The Ukraine committing genocide against Russians, I will protest, if only in my impotent digital form. When I see the starvation of Russians at the hand of Ukranian commies, I will protest.
    Until then, I buy what Roman says. I married an Indian woman, that doesn’t mean I want Delhi to conquer Washington, which your citations might imply.
    I will comment further in the next few days regarding your links.

  11. AndriiNo Gravatar says:

    Roman did an impressive work in this article. I’m Ukrainian and I can tell that Putin’s regime had started a huge deception campaign. Their media and paid “activists” are creating parallel reality and keep on nonstop lying about war in Donbas.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      How would I know that you are not Roman?
      Why aren’t you on the front lines defending your country from the “terrorists”?

  12. YuraNo Gravatar says:

    Hi guys. My name is Yura and I am a software developer from Ukraine.
    Whoever supports DNR/LNR – supports terrorists. 2 days ago a bomb was blown in Kharkiv, when there was a street action of pro-Maidan people. 4 people dead, 10 wounded. Some Russian politicians and members of DNR/LNR terrorist organizations expressed support for terrorists. If you’re on their side – you’re on the terrorists side. Nice job.
    I don’t know how some of you ended up supporting Russia. That’s funny. Russia soon will become North Korea-2.0; but there are libertarians that support them. What a irony.
    Anyway. Believe me or not, but that whole conflict in Donbass would be solved without any blood shed if there were no Russian influence. That’s Russian propaganda growing hate, that’s Russian soldiers who are fighting Ukraine army, that’s Russian weapons that they use and there’s Russian leaders to lead them.
    If you know Russian language – you can see leaders of terrorists on YouTube. They are complaining that local people don’t fight for the DNR/LNR cause. They say it straight – Ukrainian people don’t want to fight, so here are we, people from Russia, fighting Ukrainian army.
    Russian people led by Russian leaders fighting Ukrainian army with Russian weapons, Russian ammo and Russian vehicles. They fight for Ukraine to be part of Russia and ‘Russian world’. They are supported by Russian propaganda.
    That’s a weirdest definition of ‘civil war’ I ever met.

    • ssdfbNo Gravatar says:

      That opinion you got by watching Inter and 1+1 ? Did you know that journalists lost their job because they didnt wanted to show Ukranian propaganda. You have lots of facts that will never be shown in ukr tv because it doesnt suit to government Ukranian propaganda. You have oligarhs too who controls the media. Poroshenko doesn t let some info shown. It is not democracy. That was you first who said “москалей на ножи,кто не скачет тот москаль” isnt that nationalism?? Or your “rignt sector ” правый сектор they are liberal democratic people???? U r kidding me)
      Yes i think that there is no russian regular armies, we dont kill civil people, we help them while they are in russia as refugees, heal them. Your armies using forbidden weapons like фосфорные бомбы и кассетные бомбы, when dnr lnr capture ukr soldiers they say they were abandoned by their officers and left to die. Is it cool ?? Kiev sends 18-20 yrs old people to certain death.
      If u ask any russian they will probably tell u that we loved ukranian people, i myself have some friends there. They were nice people, but after your propaganda and west propaganda people became cruel, and i have never seen such hatred to one nation from all over the world. But this cruel people dont even try to understand the subject of this information war. Just pure hatred. Sorry i dont understand thet. Uncivilised people. The result is pretty much the same west wanted. We still live tge same life, but with this stupid sanctions we have inflation. Well ok. I will survive that. But what with ukr? Their main industrial factories in Donbass are destroyed, people dont get their pensions. President is an oligarh that takes advices from obama. I am not a kremlin troll, i dont say i approve putin’s politics whithin country, i am just odinary citizen who dont understand that provoked hatred by media…

      • ^^ This North-Korea style alternate reality is what people mean when they say that Russian propaganda works to destroy the very idea of truth.

        This was described by an international group of high profile writers, including Peruvian Nobel Laureate Mario Vargas Llosa: roy-meaning-writers-nobel

        The fall back position of Russian propaganda is convincing you that everybody is lying, and that nothing can really be understood.

        • ssdfbNo Gravatar says:

          But. It. Still Doesnt make anericans or any other even russian the greatest nation. Tge superior one. As obama claimed. Yes he always says that. But it is acceptable to claim that there is no such big country who didnt attacked others or made smth wrong. Britain and usa not the exeption. Nobody is Saint. So it is not my opinion only. Lots of people in the world think so.

          It is still doesnt allow “right sector” to have nazi symbols swastika. Open your eyes and watch videos with them.
          Yet our country is still open i can visit different countries, apply to universities or work. Even to ukranians it was no problem to visit our territory, now russians cant visit ukr . And u wont get there if u r a men from 18something to 60. That is only for our nation. Ok. Been there. Dont want to return as people just hate russians. But before conflict i just didnt think about them as enemies. They were friends, but even belorussia. What is even happening there. Only silence and potatoes with lukashenko. Russia never had any friends, it is seen throughout history. That is sad(

          • ^^ Again. This is what I mean by creating an alternate reality.

            –“It is still doesnt allow ‘right sector’ to have nazi symbols swastika.”–

            Right sector has never used swastikas and has very close relations with Ukraine’s Jewish community.

            Right Sector Members helped clean Defaced Synagogue in Odessa: ssa-jews-over-holocaust-memorial-nazi-defacement-1444276

            On the other hand, many of Russia’s mercenaries in Ukraine are covered in Swastika tattoos and flags:

            • JohnNo Gravatar says:

              ^^ Roman, here is a small lesson in logic. When you say, “Right Sector never … XYZ” do you realize how weak a position that is? I only need to find one example of one R.S. member using a swastika symbol and poof – your statement falls apart. Look up Vita Zaveruha and her Nazi imagery. Poof! Gone! A broken argument, try again. And I mean it – feel free to take words back and re-write and improve your thoughts. But for the love of reason stop ignoring data points that do not fit your narrative! This is called confirmation bias and it can and does lead to war – both sides are sure of their righteousness and the right to kill the other.

              Now another example – no swastika imagery this time but just as awful.

              “””Anaconda alongside a van displaying the neo-Nazi symbol 1488. The volunteer brigade is known for its far-right links. Photograph: Jonathan Alpeyrie/Transterra Media”””

              So, the Aidar batalion is using a van that is painted with 1488 and the 36th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS. First paragraph of Wikipedia:

              The 36th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS, also known as the SS-Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger (1944),[1] or simply the Dirlewanger Brigade, was a military unit of the Waffen-SS during World War II, and was led by Oskar Dirlewanger. Originally formed for anti-partisan duties against the Polish resistance; the unit eventually saw action in Slovakia, Hungary, and against the Soviet Red Army near the end of the war. During its operations it engaged in the rape, pillaging and mass murder of civilians.


              ^^ During its operations it engaged in the rape, pillaging and mass murder of civilians.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Hi Yura, nice pic, good English. I have a bunch of comments/questions for you.

      What is your last name (I would like to know that you are real and not Roman)?
      Why aren’t you on the front lines?
      “If you’re on their side – you’re on the terrorists side. Nice job.”
      Why are you forcing readers to pick a side?
      “Russia soon will become North Korea-2.0” – this is just a statement, requires some proof. Also, is it fair to presume that you believe that Ukraine has been and is becoming freer in comparison?
      How would I know that bombing was carried out by DNR/LNR and not Kiev in order to have an excuse to break a peace deal? What about other possibilities? I am particularly suspicious given how controlled the Ukraine press has become recently. Why would DNR/LNR do this only a few days after the peace deal was signed? Does not seem to make sense to me. Who benefits from this perfectly times explosion? I would say Kiev. I have no proof and neither do you.

      A few more good questions: Why did Poroshenko not sigh a peace deal? Why was it Kuchma instead, thus rendering it almost meaningless? Why did the Right Sector openly not honor the latest to date peace deal that was signed in Minsk. Is kiev unable to control the Right Sector battalions?

      “Anyway. Believe me or not, but that whole conflict in Donbass would be solved without any blood shed if there were no Russian influence.”
      Without ANY blood? That is a high level of confidence.
      What if I told you that there would be no conflict in Donbass without NATO influence.
      What if I also told you that the conflict in Donbass would be solved almost without any blood (like Crimea) if Kiev did not order its troops to enter there?

      I could ask you more questions, but I do not want to overwhelm you.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Ok, Yura, so you exist and you are right about 30 years old – a ripe age to enter the military in my opinion.

        If Yuriy Syvukha, 57 yo, an assistant coach of the Ukraine national team gets a letter from the military drafting him to war, then why aren’t you being drafted first?

        Surely, old Yuriy’s knees are in much worse shape than those of the young Yara after all these years of playing professionally.

        I actually do not want you to die. I like the quality of your code.

        I just want some consistency – if you support the war, then go ahead – train and enlist. Don’t you pass the responsibility onto those who do not want to fight. If you are not willing to go fight, then lay off the war drum.

        In economics there is a concept called “Revealed Preference”. I wager that your revealed preference is that you do not support the war.

        From David Friedman:
        Economics Joke #l: Two economists walked past a Porsche showroom. One of them pointed at a shiny car in the window and said, “I want that.” “Obviously not,” the other replied.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Here is my source:

          ​Famous Soviet football champ refuses to fight for Kiev in E. Ukraine

          A different section:

          Soviet football legend Aleksandr Zavarov said he will not fight in the eastern Ukraine conflict, after reports surfaced that a draft notice bearing the 53-year-old’s name was delivered to the Football Federation of Ukraine (FFU) last week.

          Zavarov, who was born in Lugansk, has categorically refused to comply with the notice.

          “I will say one thing, I will never fight where my family and kids live, where my parents are buried,” the assistant coach for the Ukraine national team said. “I just want peace.”

  13. VanmindNo Gravatar says:

    This avatar noticed something else in recent days. Misguided Putin admirers out there have started posting to their blogs deliberate links to “Google Translate” articles that come straight out of the Russian propaganda system. That’s on top of all the imbeciles crying that RT is something other than an obvious MSM front (FMSM being in comparison an acronym for the Former Mainstream Media like CBS, BBC, NYT, Pravda, etc.). Indeed, part of the modern propaganda agenda is tricking people into reassessing either Stalin or Hitler as someone everyone “misunderstood.” Do no fall for such dialectical guile — if someone urges you to “revere your ancestral traditions,” choose instead to read (or re-read) “The Crowd” by Gustave Le Bon.

    Picture Stalin & Hitler sending millions to die for the sake of their own pettiness regarding which form of absolutism was “beneficial” to mankind. Then picture Obama & Putin rehashing all those same old lies about each other’s “leadership” abilities. Then realize that all four were/are NWO stooges under orders to cull as many people as possible while steering the remainder toward one-world totalitarian unity.

    That was the rosy-cross reasoning behind the “American Experiment,” featuring scripted states with imaginary borders that could be merged subsequently into a formal, if fraudulent, Civil Union with bigger & badder borders of make-believe. Take 1865, and then project forward to suppose the NWO’s target for 2065. Same experiment, more States to unionize through wholesale bloodshed. Those Mystery School lowlifes built their prototype tyranny model, so now they’re moving on to the real fraudulent deal.

    Sympathize with all the (non-NWO) Ukranians getting caught up in the middle — again. Then weep for what’s coming to the Poles, and so on …

  14. KarlNo Gravatar says:

    Roman, given your links, one could flip your tactic and accuse you of being a shill for the “Cosmopolitan” Empire (CE – apropos acronym). I am not interested in attacking you, I am just wondering why you wrote this (re)hash. You (and Curt) should be embarrassed at your lack of reporting from the ground and lack of effort to falsify or determine the veracity of “reported facts”. If that is too costly professionally or personally, why are you writing on the subject? IMO, you have offered little to nothing since the early Maidan days. Regurgitating CE propaganda and Curt’s questionable history of the Rus has (sadly*) diminished you to ignorable status on this issue.

    The modern history that is playing out dates back to ~1750, when the long covert war on Western Christendom was formally organized. It is too much go into here (alluded to above earlier today). It will have to suffice to say that Ukraine, an economically and militarily weak country with a significantly divided culture (ripe for exploits), is merely a pawn on the “grand chessboard”. It won’t end anytime soon, although the current pause may last so long as men in the west refuse to fight to prevent eastern secession.

    It is always hard to get good information from a war zone, especially from afar, but even within range one has to know who to trust for accuracy. I balance western prop. with “The Saker” primarily. Folks here may find this thread about him interesting (“Who is The Saker” -saker.html ) On topic, I would especially recommend the extensive comments made by David Habakkuk on 17 April 2014 at 05:42 AM discussing Putin’s allusions to pre-Soviet Russian cultural leadership

    *I have enjoyed your discussions and videos on other topics.

  15. the watcherNo Gravatar says:

    Strong post.
    I am from Lithuania myself, and totally agree with everything in the article regarding the Baltics.
    No doubt about Russian authorities’s atrocities and lies.
    However, the Malaysian aircraft crash is still a mistery.
    The Ukrainian security keep the record of airspace control/ pilot comunication, and never publish.

    • ^^ alternate reality propaganda.

      “I agree with you BUT . . . .”

      (A very common tactic of Russian propagandists.)

      MH 17 flight recording WAS released: rlines-black-box-recorders_n_5789224.html

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        ^^ alternate reality propaganda.
        “I agree with you BUT . . . .”
        (A very common tactic of Russian propagandists.)

        Oh boy, this response is hilarious. The guy dares to disagree with you and you immediately cast him as a Kremlin troll. How about sticking to facts instead of over-reacting?

        This was the claim:

        “The Ukrainian security keep the record of airspace control/ pilot communication, and never publish.”

        Roman provided a link that shows textual transcript of a conversation as extracted from a black box. I did not find a voice recording there, only text.

        It is always nice to be able to observe the first sources.

        You may enter “Ukraine confiscated air traffic control” into your search engine and you will find a ton of links. To my knowledge Kiev never released those. Please convince me otherwise by showing a credible link.

        So, you were correct to begin with. Roman’s link has to do with a different source for evidence.

        I will provide other links regarding the MH17 crash.

  16. WasdNo Gravatar says:

    Hello Roman, you use allot of reference to Russian news agencies and blogs that support the Russian narrative, even though before there actually was any sort of media war, you opposed civilian protests in places like Sloviansk, Donetsk, Lughansk, Mariupol, Odessa etc. Back when ‘Russian Propoganda’ wasn’t enforced, you even supported the mass murder in Odessa on your Twitter account, completely disregarding the opinions of your fellow countrymen by dismissing it as Russian propaganda, even though there wasn’t any thing of the sort then, and it would have been only a few months after the Maidan. You also clearly are brainwashed yourself if you believe that Russia is turning into North Korea- Ukraine itself banned Russian TV and Journalists from its territory!

  17. the watcherNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks for the link, Roman.
    You answered my question.
    Being a little paranoid is perfectly normal.
    But accusing of Russian propaganda is too much.
    I take no sides but my own:)
    Peace brother

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      What was your question?

    • You’re welcome, sir. Some people are professional propagandists (, and some are caught up in the echo chamber.

      It can be hard to distinguish on first glance.

      Peace to you too . . . . but justice first.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Replying only to friendly posts and not dealing with counter-arguments is a form of confirmation bias. It is a good way to entrench in your initial beliefs and not discover the truth. Speaking of ^^Alternative Reality.

        This is a loaded and misleading phrase, like Reverse Racism. Reverse racism is a term that lefties had to coin in order to explain why sometimes black folk hate on the white folk. Just “racism” was not enough. After all, everyone knows that white people are racist and every other form of race-base discrimination is an exception, hence reverse racism. White people discriminate by default, so only white people are racist. Others get a separate term.

        Let’s now deconstruct the phrase Alternative Reality. It is similarly a non-symmetric thing whereas whoever is using this term can see/know/experience reality and everyone else (at least anyone who does not see universe in the same way) has a fake / skewed / made-up / etc. version of Reality. They are either confused or, more likely they are Leninists / Putinists who hate the world, took months of their time to familiarize themselves with Soviet propaganda and how that works, probably get paid heftily by Putin, but perhaps not necessarily.

        Again, if you are Roman, then what you experience through your peRfect senses and communicate to others is Reality. If you are NOT Roman or NOT with Roman, then what you experience and communicate to others is NOT Reality, an Alternative Reality.

        Roman stands for R and R stands for Reality.

        Roman does not have blind spots, his brain can comprehend the most intricate details of Quantum Physics, Relativity, and many things yet to be discovered. His consciousnesses is not limited to the world of 3D + time, he can experience all 17 dimensions (stupid physicists still think there are only 13 of them). Roman has seen the first few nanoseconds of a most recent Big Bang and knows exactly how our universe will end this time. When Roman drinks, his perception remains crystal clear. His memory is perfect, does not change over time. He never changed his mind about anything because he gets the accurate pixel-perfect picture first time, every time.

        His field of vision is 360 deg but it is not strictly necessary because he can communicate telepathically with anyone in the world and get the details from them. This is how he was able to survey EVERY Ukrainian, every Russian, every libertarian before forming his perfect thesis. Roman sees and knows everything. He is God (with read-only admin privileges) and his followers can see the light. Everyone else lives under a big rock in a dark cave and observe shadows on the wall. They can only experience and communicate an alternative reality.

        Why do we even bother arguing with Roman? He is right by default.

        Of course, none of this would likely slide as an argument in court room, in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, or when arguing with a Physics professor why Roman really got 96 and not 69 on his Physics test.

        So, I would ask Mr Idealist to get from his high horse down to the ground level and start listening to and processing counter-arguments instead of only those that fit the Mission, which makes him feel good.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        ^^ Some people are professional propagandists, and some are caught up in the echo chamber. -dc-37-ive-never-seen-such-groupthink-one-case-ukraines-crises

        Prize winning Robert Parry who broke the Iran-Contra scandals, Editor of the excellent Consortium News, gives a great speech at the World Russia Forum,
        During his 37 years long journalist career in Washington he never experienced such a single sided groupthink as the one we seen in the past year or so regarding the Ukraine’s crises.
        When he started in 1977 it was a time when the US press core asked tough questions, understood its basic responsibility to American people and broke through of many government lies including the Pentagon papers, Watergate Scandal, The Family Jewels (CIA).
        There are almost always two sides of the story and from the very beginning Ukraine’s story was presented as a one sided, cartoon like story.
        This is the case in the MH17 disaster where after initial Washington’s accusations against Russia without substantial proof, the US government went completely silent and is holding back intelligence it has about this serious crime.
        The American press should push the government on these things, not simply go with a flow and investigate what the US government knows and why is not helping to bring whoever was responsible to justice.
        The US press corps acts as the government’s propaganda conveyer belt.

  18. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Several (mostly pro-Kiev) posters here compared Russia with North Korea. Russia deserves its share of criticism, but I think the implied message was that Ukraine is much freer than Russia. Others mentioned already that journalistic freedom is seriously lacking in Ukraine as of late. With this context in mind, the following phrase is hilarious: “The desire for a better life, much less for survival, is not a CIA conspiracy.”

    Here is another funny (as well as sad) thing – Ukraine nearly avoided a country-wide martial law. I am not making this up – this comes straight from Kyiv Post, not some pro-Russian propaganda site. pose-martial-law-if-cease-fire-fails-380663.html

    Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said martial law will be introduced throughout Ukraine if the cease-fire fails to start at midnight tonight, as agreed in Minsk, Belarus, on Feb. 12.

    “Even before Minsk… I warned that we will have to, if there is no peace, take a very difficult but necessary decision to introduce martial law,” Poroshenko said today. “I stress once again that in this case the martial law will be introduced not just in Donetsk and Luhansk, but in the whole country.”

    Introduction of martial law means that Ukraine’s army gets to control the streets and impose curfews, ban parties and other organizations, as well as mass gatherings, conduct searches and introduce censorship. It’s also allowed to claim property of businesses and private individual if needed.

  19. MacianoNo Gravatar says:


    Good points.

    I think there are two large groups of libertarians who tend to be pro-Russian
    1) young people who simply don’t know how aggressive & controlling Russia used to be, way more than the US ever was or has been the past 20 years. They’re easily led by Russia Today propaganda & disinfo.
    2) older guys, who tend to paleocons in temperament and falsely project their idealized vision of the US in the 50s upon Russia’s society; mainly because of Russia’s remarkable refusal to embrace post-60s liberalism/PC policies.

    Anyone with a head on their shoulders can see Russia is just trying to annex land, control neighbors, repress dissent, stiffle progress and enriches the few at the cost of the many. Russia’s European neighbors are its primary victims.

    I had high hopes for Russia, because I really liked to see Russians to have a break for once. After tsarism, communism and 90s gangsterism, it would’ve been nice to see Russia grow into a modern state, but, alas, it was not to be. Russia seems to be caught in an oil-dependant oligarchic system and it will stay there for a few decades, I fear.

    • Thank you, Maciano. Putin could have been a hero to many people, including me, if he would have created property rights and rule of law and made Russia into a conservative alternative to the West. The opportunity was enormous.

      I now realize this was impossible, and my hopes were completely naive. Putin is incapable of doing this, and the Russian idea needs to change on a very fundamental level before they will see property rights and rule of law to be in their interest.

      Right now, the Russian idea is threatened by these western institutions. (As it should be, because the idea is rotten.)

      The Soviet Union never finished collapsing. It needs to.

      • MacianoNo Gravatar says:

        Don’t blame yourself for hoping for the best.

        We should blame those who steer our ships to the rocks.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Please help me understand your figure of speech.
          What are the ships, who is steering them and who are “we”?

          • MacianoNo Gravatar says:

            Looking at your responses, John, I’m surprised there’d be anyone who’s willing to respond to you at all.

            • JohnNo Gravatar says:


              This site is a court room, this article is a trial and readers are the jury. You may chose to opt-out of cross-examination, but the readers will notice that you did so.

              And I have no idea what you do not like about my responses. That I am willing to challenge people’s beliefs? To ask them for clarifications? You would need to be rather specific.

              I presume that you are an adult. If you can’t handle the heat, then by all means – do not respond.

  20. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Speaking of North Korea, why is Chris Martenson not allowed to be present at his own trial? Here is one way to summon him to the court: or perhaps

    He is a very busy guy who probably has never heard of Roman Skaskiw.

  21. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    If I can take Roman’s arguments almost verbatim and use them to argue something completely tangential if not opposite, then those must not have been very good arguments. Let’s give it a try:


    Living in America, particularly since the poorly disguised American invasion of the Middle East led by a grandson of Hitler’s buddy
    began in 2003, has taught me a lot of what the Nazi Germany must have been like.

    With Operation Paperclip being well behind us and most Nazi war criminals who slipped into the United States in thousands being dead by Mossad’s bullets or of old age, one would think that America can finally turn a new page.

    And now we discover a domestic ring of Gestapo ‘black sites’ in addition to dozens of existing ones in places like Poland, Lithuania, Romania, Afghanistan.

    ‘Gestapo’ tactics at US police ‘black site’ ring alarm from Chicago to Washington chicago-washington-politicians-human-rights


    Note: I am not actually arguing that America is synonymous with Nazism, but if I were a hell-bent fanatic with an ax to grind, or a master manipulator, then this is how I could have started my narrative.

    The problem (logical fallacies) with this narrative would be some of the following: hasty generalizations, slipper slope, association fallacy, cherry picking, conformation bias.

    To give you a good picture I would do some homework first, I would need to consider/reveal – what would my critics likely say. where is my data that supports the narrative, what is the scope and significance of the illegal and atrocious deeds? Am I trying to say or imply that country A is much guiltier than country B of the same or similar crimes? If so, where is my data that readers can explore independently?

    These are just some pointers. Anything less, and the product of my work is sloppy/biased reporting at best, and a misinformation campaign at worst.

    There are many sides to every story. Please do your homework so that the readers will have to do less of it.

  22. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Veteran journalist Mark Franchetti is notoriously critical of Putin’s government and Russia. On Ukrainian TV he tells the real situation in the East but the Ukrainians try to shut him up.

    “Pinned to the ground by blizzard of bullets” by Mark Franchetti

  23. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Here is what RT has to say/show about journalistic accreditation being taken away from them:

    ‘Russian? Get out of here!’ Deportation, death & dangers of reporting from Ukraine

  24. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Probably a bit off-topic … oh well.

    Ukraine is apparently too busy screaming “Russian Aggression” to notice that Monsanto has moved in to screw up their fertile soil.

    Some Polish farmers are protesting Monsanto and other laws in Poland est-of-monsantos-gmo-crops/#ixzz3T5bxVvP0

    Poland’s largest farmer uprising ever has occurred as convoys of tractors took to the roads recently in protest of GMO infiltration and land grabs by biotech and Big Ag corporations.

    Read more: est-of-monsantos-gmo-crops/#ixzz3T7BSZSKG
    Follow us: @naturalsociety on Twitter | NaturalSociety on Facebook

    There are 4 simple key demands the farmers would like to be heard:

    Regulation of land grabs by primarily Western companies (translation – biotech and Big Ag) to prevent small farmers from losing their livelihoods.

    The legalization of direct sale of produce and other foods from farms to the people. This cuts out the middle man and allows the higher quality produce of many farms to reach its customers directly. Poland currently has some of the most extreme policies of all of Europe in this regard, making it nearly impossible for small farmers to compete with big food companies who are notorious for selling us fake and highly processed foods.

    Change inheritance laws so that families can rightly leave land under lease to their heirs.
    One farmer stated:

    “We demand the introduction of legislation that will protect Polish land from exploitation by foreign capital! Agricultural land cannot be sold to commercial companies. It’s part of Polish territory. Once sold it will be lost.

  25. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Ukraine: draft dodgers face jail as Kiev struggles to find new fighters s-jail-kiev-struggle-new-fighters

    Journalist Ruslan Kotsaba, arrested after refusing to fight in video addressed to Petro Poroshenko, is among many weary of conflict that has killed 5,000

    Ruslan Kotsaba posted a video addressed to the Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, last week in which he said he would rather go to prison for five years for draft-dodging than fight pro-Russia rebels in the country’s east. Now he faces 15 years in jail after being arrested for treason and obstructing the military.

    The government has denied there is a major problem with mobilisation, and Pavlo Kyshar, an MP who fought with the Donbass volunteer battalion, said there are few people who do not want to fight.

    But testimony from the regions, especially in western Ukraine, tells a different story.

    “At least here mobilisation has been a total failure,” said Iryna Vereshchuk, mayor of the small town of Rava-Ruska, in the far west of Ukraine. “People don’t understand what they are fighting against. If it’s a war, why has no war been declared? Why are ordinary people being called up to take part in a fight against terrorists?”

    “We still have diplomatic and financial links with Russia and yet people are saying we have to go and fight their troops and die,” said Vereshchuk. “If our region was coming under attack, people would take up arms, but they are not ready to go to the east and end up killing other Ukrainian citizens.”

  26. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    China Warns U.S. to Stop Its Ukrainian Proxy War Against Russia proxy-war-russia/

    China’s Ambassador to Belgium (which has the capital of the EU) said that the “nature and root cause” of the Ukrainian conflict is “the West,” and that “The West should abandon the zero-sum mentality, and take the real security concerns of Russia into consideration.”
    By “real security concerns,” he is clearly referring to NATO’s expansion right up to Russia’s border, and America’s surrounding Russia with U.S. military bases, now increasingly including the most strategic of Russia’s bordering countries: Ukraine.

  27. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    An interest post on craigslist. Not sure what to think of it yet. This Denis Mikhailenko has made a few of these.

    Ukrainian/Russian Men Needed $19/Hr (Oceanside)
    compensation: $19.19/Hr
    GTS (Glacier Technology Solutions LLC) – We are military contractors working directly with the US Marine Corps assisting them with their immersive simulation training program.

    Currently, we are looking for role players of Ukrainian and/or Russian ethnicity and language skills. Need MEN ranging 18-65 years of age.

    This is temporary, part time, on-call work based on need and availability.

    At the moment, we are staffing for an upcoming training to take place:
    March 29-31, 2015.

    The scheduled hours will vary from 8-12 hours per working day.

    Compensation is $15.17/hr. plus another $4.02/hr. Health and Welfare benefit for up to 40 hours of work in a workweek. (Overtime rates will be paid if necessary).

    Register for work at:

    For further questions feel free to call. We look forward to meeting, and sharing this fun and unique work experience with you.

    Denis Mikhailenko
    Cultural Advisor

    Weston Giannini
    Scheduling Manager
    Office (866) 949-9966 — Ext# 110
    Fax 866-308-7230

    GTS Workforce Resources
    1833 Oceanside Blvd. Suite A
    Oceanside, CA 92054
    Principals only. Recruiters, please don’t contact this job poster.
    do NOT contact us with unsolicited services or offers

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      That was posted rather close to home.
      Putin’s 500 rubles per hour does not buy me as much vodka.
      Maybe I switch my allegiances.


      Ukrainian/Russian Men Needed $19/Hr (Oceanside, CA)

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      The CL ad wants only MEN, matching the same age group (18-65) as the age that Kiev conscripts locals at.

      This fun and unique work experience just well may mean being deployed to Easter Ukraine, but I do not know for sure.

      Had I been Roman, I would count this as proof. All I am saying is that this piece of data is interesting.

  28. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    ^^ Alternative Reality Propaganda by NATO.

    My take: a good chunk of German citizens do not want to confront or fight Russia. This puts political pressure on Merkel, which is forced back into “reality” – a reality where thanks to the Open Skies Treaty it is possible to verify whose troops are stationed where.

    Germany slams NATO European commander’s comments on Ukraine as ‘dangerous propaganda’ – Spiegel

    General Philip Breedlove made harsh remarks on the situation in Ukraine on Wednesday, saying that the self-defense forces, with the assistance of Russia, have prepared “over a thousand combat vehicles” and “sophisticated air defense, battalions of artillery” in the south-east of the country.
    “What is clear is that right now it is not getting better, it is getting worse every day,” NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) concluded.
    The comments came on the same day as the OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) stressed that progress in the fulfillment of the Minsk peace deal between Ukrainian government and the militias in Donetsk and Lugansk Regions.
    German authorities were “alarmed” by the stance of the NATO commander and wondered whether “the Americans [are] trying to thwart European efforts at mediation led by Chancellor Angela Merkel?” Der Spiegel wrote.
    “False claims and exaggerated accounts, warned a top German official during a recent meeting on Ukraine, have put NATO – and by extension, the entire West – in danger of losing its credibility,” the paper wrote.
    The magazine drew several more examples of General Breedlove’s “slips of the tongue,” including one he dropped at the beginning of the crisis; Breedlove said that Russians allegedly gathered 40,000 troops on the Ukrainian border and the situation was “incredibly concerning” as they were preparing for an invasion.
    However, the findings of the German intelligence “contradicted Breedlove’s view in almost every respect.”
    there was no evidence of logistical preparation for an invasion, such as a field headquarters,” Der Spiegel wrote.

  29. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    My take on it – Brzezinski wants to start a war with Russia.

    Brzezinski Says Russia’s Putin Wants To Invade NATO

    Brzezinski, U.S. President Obama’s friend and advisor on Russia
    we must pour weapons and troops into the nations that surround Russia, in order to avoid a nuclear conflict: deterrence, he argues, is the way to peace; anything else than our sending in troops and weapons now would be weakness and would invite World War III.
    He says that American troops must be prepositioned in these countries immediately, because otherwise Putin will think that America won’t respond to a Russian attack against those countries.
    Brzezinski presented to the U.S. Senate accused Russia of planning to invade NATO when instead the United States has been surrounding Russia by formerly-Russian-allied nations, which are new members of America’s anti-Russian military club, NATO.

  30. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    My take – I refuse to believe that UK ever cared about the repressive nature of Yanukovich government. It is simply inconsistent with the following behavior:
    UK selling tear gas and rubber bullets to states it deems repressive – report

    The UK has reportedly approved the sale of £16 million worth of anti-riot equipment, including tear gas and rubber bullets to countries on its own human-rights blacklist
    the majority of the gear has gone to nations with established democracies, countries with questionable human-rights records, such as Saudi Arabia, Libya and Pakistan have also received equipment. Those countries feature on a Foreign Office ‘blacklist’ for so-called ‘countries of concern’ over the past five years.

  31. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    My comment – how in the world iz Venezuela a threat to me? WTF? ezuela-a-threat-to-us-national-security.html

    President Barack Obama issued an executive order Monday declaring Venezuela a national security threat,
    “Venezuelan officials past and present who violate the human rights of Venezuelan citizens and engage in acts of public corruption will not be welcome here, and we now have the tools to block their assets and their use of U.S. financial systems,” White House spokesman Josh Earnest said in a statement.
    Very interesting that the US has declared Venezuela a national security threat right after Venezuela exposed a US-backed coup to have a regime change.

  32. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    That pesky Yanukovich has now taken over Spain and created some very tough anti-protest laws. US, EU, quickly help out with another revolution! That Yanukovich dude has got to go!!!

    ========== ression-as-senate-approves-security-law/

    Spain puts ‘gag’ on freedom of expression as senate approves security law

    Spain puts ‘gag’ on freedom of expression as senate approves security law The Spanish senate has voted to push forward with controversial changes to the country’s public security laws, cracking down on Spaniards’ rights of freedom of assembly and expression despite opposition from activists and human rights groups.
    Now the government has hit back with legislation, dubbed the “gag law” by critics, that seeks to limit protests by laying out strict guidelines on when and where they can take place and penalizing offenders with steep fines.
    The legislation includes fines of up to 600 euros for failing to notify authorities about demonstrations in public areas, even in the case of peaceful protests. Once approved, marches that veer from the approved itineraries could face fines of up to 600 euros. The fines climb to 30,000 euros for protests that result in “serious disturbances of public safety” near parliament and Spain’s regional government buildings.

  33. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    ^^ “The desire for a better life, much less for survival,” is not a CIA conspiracy … except for when it is.

    US Sanctions on Venezuela Not Really About Human Rights -on-venezuela-not-really-about-human-rights

    The White House on Monday announced the imposition of new sanctions on various Venezuelan officials, pronouncing itself “deeply concerned by the Venezuelan government’s efforts to escalate intimidation of its political opponents”: deeply concerned. Obama is not going after Egypt, Saudi Arabia or UAE whose repression is far worse than Venezuela’s.
    Obama and supporters want the government of Venezuela to be punished and/or toppled because they refuse to comply with U.S. dictates,

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Ten freaking million people in Venezuela are asking the US government to go F itself. Go Venezuela!

      Pro-Venezuela petition reaches 10 million signatures

      On Thursday, Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro along with his Bolivian counterpart Evo Morales received the 10 million signatures against U.S. President Barack Obama’s executive order labeling the country as a “security threat.”

      Following the issuance of the decree, Maduro launched a campaign seeking 10 Million signatures from Venezuelans demanding the decree be repealed, saying he would present them to the U.S. president at the Summit of the Americas in Panama.

      Speaking to thousands who marched to the Palace of Miraflores in Caracas, Maduro stated that Obama, who earlier in the day told a press conference that Venezuela was not considered a “threat” by the U.S., had changed his mind. The Venezuelan leader nonetheless still praised the Venezuelan people for the level of mobilization against the U.S. move.

  34. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    ^^ We see a thriving Poland to the west with property rights and rule of law, and a corrupt, savage, impoverished, propaganda-saturated Russia in the east, which has for centuries worked to destroy Ukrainian identity.

    Oligarch governor raids oil company HQ in Kiev

    Basically, Kolomoysky and his armed buddies just took over an oil company in Ukraine.

    Oh crap, how dare I write anything negative about Kolomoysky?! To quote Roman’s “Putin’s Libertarians”, “He is also not only Jewish, but the co-founder and president of the European Jewish Union.”


    The governor of the Dnepropetrovsk region and one of Ukraine’s richest oligarchs, Igor Kolomoysky, has raided the office of oil transportation company Ukrtransnafta in Kiev with the help of several dozen armed “lawyers” in order to regain control over it.

    Kolomoysky raided the firm to “drive out the new chief from the office and forcefully reappoint his own manager, Mr. Lazorko,” said Sergey Leshchenko, a parliamentarian from the bloc of Petro Poroshenko.

    Demchishin says that he hopes that on Friday the newly appointed head of Ukrtransnafta will be able to start his new job. When asked by the press, how that would be possible considering the armed men in the building, the energy minister downplayed the situation, simply saying that the building is “large enough” and there were “no armed men inside.”

    When confronted by the journalist who showed him pictures of the incident, Demchishin just kept on smiling without acknowledging the raid, jokingly saying those who occupied the building will likely spend the night “burning the financial documents.”

    In Russia the oligarch is sought for “organizing the killing of civilians,” after last July a Russian District Court authorized his arrest in absentia. Russia has been trying to get the oligarch placed on Interpol’s wanted list.

  35. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    ^^ The desire for a better life is not a CIA conspiracy.

    “Yanukovich’s” Berkut is being replaced with Geoffrey Pyatt’s KORD.

    US to Train Ukraine Special Police to Take on Own People

    Kiev is working with Washington to create a unified special police force. The force is to be called KORD (Korpus operativno-raptovoy diy—Instantaneous Tactical Actions Corps). Following its American counterpart, KORD will consist of “assault teams” that execute high-risk police actions with a 15-to-20-minute response time.
    The creation of US-trained police teams in Ukraine makes clear that Kiev is preparing to suppress popular opposition to its right-wing austerity program and the brutal war the government is waging in the country’s southeast.
    the United States has allocated $26.4 million for the restructuring of Ukraine’s police and the creation of the teams.
    The American police are to share with their Ukrainian counterparts their rich experience in quelling civil disorder and suppressing political dissent.

  36. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    ^^ Petty gangsters and vain nobodies are elevated to positions of power and status.

    This is some hilarious stuff. Team Poroshenko is using publicly financed force vs the private army of Team Kolomoysky in a fight over control of UkrNafta

    The Maidan revolution is showing its true colors.

    Roman Skaskiw’s inability to understand what is happening in Ukraine will hopefully ruin his reputation as an author and a “libertarian thinker”. Thinking and lecturing should be left to those who are good at it. Roman will be forced to earn his money doing something that is actually useful.

  37. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Propagandists Use Automated Software to Spread Disinformation ted-software-spread-disinformation

    NATO has announced that it is launching an “information war” against Russia.
    The UK publicly announced a battalion of keyboard warriors to spread disinformation.
    It’s well-documented that the West has long used false propaganda to sway public opinion.
    Such manipulation includes flooding social media with comments supporting the government and large corporations, fake social media identities
    One of America’s top cyber-propagandists – former high-level military information officer Joel Harding – wrote in December:
    I was in a discussion today about information being used in social media as a possible weapon. The people I was talking with have a tool which scrapes social media sites, gauges their sentiment and gives the user the opportunity to automatically generate a persuasive response. Their tool is called a “Social Networking Influence Engine”.
    Gizmodo reported in 2010:
    Software developer Nigel Leck got tired rehashing the same 140-character arguments against climate change deniers, so he programmed a bot that does the work for him. With citations!
    Every five minutes it trawls Twitter for terms and phrases that commonly crop up in Tweets that refute human-caused climate change. It then searches its database of hundreds to find a counter-argument best suited for that tweet—
    Any article that includes the words “Russia” or “Ukraine” automatically triggers comments accusing Russia of seeking to form a new empire, Putin of being the new Hitler, and the Russians invading and being responsible for all of the violence Ukraine
    Any article including the words “NSA”, “spying” or “mass surveillance” automatically triggers comments saying that the government is just trying keep us safe, and anyone who questions their actions is a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist who lives in his mom’s basement

  38. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    US does not support resistance in Yemen, unlike in Ukraine. The algorithm is really simple: if you are against our puppet, then you are a terrorist. If you are against the dude who refuses to be our puppet, then you are our friend.

    Another Middle East War Breaks Out: Saudis Begin Bombing Yemen, US Military Taking Action breaks-out-saudi-arabia-begins-bombing-yemen

    John McCain & Lindsay Graham explain Obama’s move…

    “Saudi Arabia and our Arab partners deserve our support as they seek to restore order in Yemen, which has collapsed into civil war.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      The secretary of State made the following statement … NOT! They sent 2 aircraft carriers to Yemen instead.

      “This is not 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovakia, where Saudi Arabia can threaten its neighbors, occupy a capital, overthrow a government, and get away with it. Things have changed.

      Have they? From what I can tell tools like Roman continue to enlist and serve Dick Cheneys and do the globalist’s bidding. Unlike Roman, Adam Kokesh had the balls to admit that he was a gullible tool, a war crime participant.

  39. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    So, Putin is getting all of the flak for “invading” Ukraine without any of the benefits. He keeps on getting new sanctions pressed against him without having actual control over territory. What a stupid way to proceed! He is acting not like a formidable opponent, but rather like a dumb and easy to kill video game “bad guy” character.

    Now, who wants peace and who wants war? According to this particular report by OSCE, it would be the pro-Kiev side. Full report here:

    First, my summary:
    On March 27th, the pro-Kiev side started shelling Shyrokyne unprovoked and sent over 225 mortar shells, to which DPR eventually answered with about 20 shells of their own.

    Now a snippet from the report:

    On 27 March, the SMM observed from an observation point in the vicinity of Berdianske (government-controlled, 18km east of Mariupol) escalating fighting in Shyrokyne (“Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”)-controlled, 20km east of Mariupol, 102 km south of Donetsk) counting over 225 mortar shells from 14:40hrs to 17:15hrs. The shelling had started only a few hours following an SMM visit to the “DPR” “command” in Shyrokyne.

    From its position the SMM estimated that the shells were fired from a position of the Ukrainian Armed Forces located in Berdianske. The SMM assessed that the majority of these outgoing shells impacted on the southern part of the Shyrokyne village, controlled by “DPR”. About 20 mortar shells were observed to have been fired back from the area controlled by “DPR”.

  40. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Speaking of “terrorism”, this term has been abused and overused, but here is an example of actual terrorism, as defined in a dictionary. A female fighter from “Aydar” battalion randomly fires a Rocket Propelled Grenade on Shirokino, Ukraine, in all likelihood hitting a civilian residential building.

    Shirokino: Ukrainian girl fighter fires from an RPG

    Good job Kiev. Ihor Kolomoysky says “so long suckers and thanks for all the hrivnias” from his bunker in Switzerland.

  41. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Yanukovich passes another draconian anti-protest law, this time in Turkey.

    A US spokesman harshly criticized the move … NOT! Erdogan may be a son of a bitch, but he is OUR son of a bitch! ice-state-law-grants-unlimited-powers-weaponized-police-forc
    Turkey Devolves Into A Full Police State: Law Grants Unlimited Powers To Weaponized Police Force

    Earlier today, Turkey’s conversion to a full blown police state was complete when, after weeks of heated debates and brawls in parliament, Turkey’s government passed a security package expanding police powers, along with an online surveillance law and a discretionary fund for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to fund covert operations.
    In other words, president Erdogan has just voted himself quasi-dictatorial powers with a private police force to defend him.
    protesters are banned from carrying fire crackers, firebombs, iron pellets and slingshots, along with covering faces during demonstrations

  42. JohnNo Gravatar says:
    Ukraine’s Right Sector Leader Wants Donbas Residents Deported
    * Ukrainian Right Sector leader and Rada deputy Dmitri Yarosh stated that the unruly residents of eastern Ukraine should be deported and deprived of their civil rights.
    * The Right Sector leader added that the region’s “unruly” residents must also be dealt with. “If we get rid of the unruly ones, everything will be fine, quiet and peaceful. And then, of course, a program of affectionate Ukrainianization can begin.“

  43. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Here is an interesting fact:

    Main German News channel NT-V asked it’s viewers: Do you support/understand Putin – 89% say yes! The survey was taken off the channel once they realized the results. So much to the free press in West!

    Here is the exact phrasing in German. I cannot vouch for the exact meaning of the word Verständnis. A dictionary translates it as (ordered by frequency): understanding, sympathy, comprehension, appreciation, insight, grasp, grip.

    ”Haben sie Verständnis für Putins Kurs”

    mit ja antworten bisher 87%
    mit nein antworten bisher 13%

    The difference between 87% and 89% must be due to different time at which the numbers were sampled. I understand that at the end the proportion of “those who understand Putin” was reported as 89%.

  44. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    ^^ Go to hell, Chris Martenson, you Kremlin shill. We are fighting for survival.

    Surely by “we” you mean residents of Donbass.

    Ooh, I hate Chou En Lai, and I hope he dies,
    Onething you gotta see
    That someone’s gotta go over there
    And that someone isn’t me
    So I wish you well, Sarge, give ’em Hell!
    Kill me a thousand or so
    And if you ever get a war without blood and gore
    I’ll be the first to go
    Ukrainian Authorities Raid Dormitories to Catch Students Evading Draft

    Only a quarter of Ukrainians of a call-up age are ready to do military service as many of them fear to be sent to the zone of the military operation in Donbass
    “About 25% of recruits come by themselves, the others we have to follow,”
    Lviv region is witnessing a similar situation, where 70 percent of potential recruits are not ready to serve in the army.
    Representatives of enlistment offices burst into student dormitories to ‘catch’ those, evading the military service. Last week, for instance, they raided a dormitory of the Kiev Polytechnic Institute (KPI).
    “[They] burst into the room, forced us to sign that we received call-up papers. In case of disagreement, [they] threatened to bring us to a recruitment office in handcuffs,” one of the KPI students said.

  45. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Seth King,
    @Seth King,
    TO: Seth King


    This site swallows about 20% of the comments that I am trying to post. I see no error message, but my comments do not get posted. I try to post just one url link per post. If my posts are not welcome on this site, I would like to be told so directly. If there is a bug, then I would be ecstatic to see you fix it.

    • Seth KingNo Gravatar says:

      Not sure why some of your comments are going to spam filter. But if any of your posts go to spam shoot me an email and let me know and I’ll dig it out. Please don’t post comments twice though! No need for duplicates! Thanks!

  46. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Nice guy billionaire looking to help Ukraine out with a chunk of his own money. Political analysts expect George to be more helpful than Ihor Kolomoysky nicknamed “the patriot”.

  47. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Yanukovich ordered Berkut to assault anti-war crowd in Saudi Arabia. Two are killed, 30 are wounded.

    John Kerry, John McCain, Marie Harf, Jen Psaki, Geoffrey Pyatt and Victoria Nuland all unanimously condemned the violence and urged the Saudis to show restraint in this situation while the mainstream media covered this story 24/7 … obviously none of that happened. Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud may be a son of a bitch, but he is OUR son of a bitch.

  48. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    ^^ And if you don’t want to believe my anecdotal evidence, here is a collection of eleven different survey about sentiments in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

    I am glad that you are familiar with the term “anecdotal evidence”. This is a term that adults use in real debates. When you grow up, maybe you can join a debate club or something like that where you can learn all about it. Hint: it has something to do with logic and logical fallacies and it is hard like math and it hurts most people’s brains.

    Anyhow, here are data point(s) about sentiments in Crimea specifically.

    TL;DR 82% fully supported Crimea’s inclusion in Russia, 11% partial support, 4% against. Survey excluded Sevastopol, but also small villages. rimeans-prefer-russia

    Ukrainian political scientist Taras Berezovets, a Crimea native, recently started an initiative he called Free Crimea, aided by the Canada Fund for Local Initiatives and aimed at building Ukrainian soft power on the peninsula. He started by commissioning a poll of Crimean residents from the Ukrainian branch of Germany’s biggest market research organization, GfK. The poll results were something of a cold shower to Berezovets.

    GfK Ukraine’s poll wasn’t based on actual field work, which is understandable, since a Ukraine-based organization would have a tough time operating in today’s Crimea, which is rife with Russian FSB secret police agents and ruled by a local government intent on keeping dissent to a minimum. Instead, it conducted a telephone poll of 800 people in Crimea.

    The calls were made on Jan. 16-22 to people living in towns with a population of 20,000 or more, which probably led to the peninsula’s native population, the Tatars, being underrepresented because many of them live in small villages. On the other hand, no calls were placed in Sevastopol, the most pro-Russian city in Crimea. Even with these limitations, it was the most representative independent poll taken on the peninsula since its annexation.

    Eighty-two percent of those polled said they fully supported Crimea’s inclusion in Russia, and another 11 percent expressed partial support. Only 4 percent spoke out against it.

  49. JohnNo Gravatar says:



    On July 5th 2014, a group of individuals wearing masks attacked the editorial office of Vesti newspaper in Kyiv with smoke grenades and stones. The office guard was assaulted and sustained injuries, windows were shattered and some of the newspaper’s equipment was damaged. The newspaper is know to take a more critical view about the so called “Anti Terror Operation” (ATO) that is going on in eastern Ukraine and is de facto a war of the Ukrainian government against its own people. A surveillance camera captured the attack of the neonazis on tape.

    The OSCE Representative on Freedom of the Media Dunja Mijatović condemned the attack and called for an investigation.“I condemn this attack and call on the authorities to carry out a full investigation to identify and bring those responsible to justice”

    More images of the damage caused by the Neonazi attack can be found on the website of