Putin’s Libertarians

April 10th, 2014   Submitted by Roman Skaskiw

u-genghis-khan-monumentLast August, I met former Belarusian Presidential candidate Yaroslav Romanchuk at a libertarian conference near Lviv, Ukraine. He was somewhat of a Ron Paul figure, a businessman-turned-politician advocating radical free market reforms in Belarus. The consequences for being a libertarian in or near Russia are much more severe than in the United States. In 1994 he faced pressure: to stay in business he’d have to either join the mafia or join the government. He ended up abandoning the import-export business he had spent years building.

We joked about America’s RT (Russia Today) news service — that the United States government should sponsor a Russian language libertarian channel in Russia and Eastern Europe. The joke, which for us needed no explanation, was that governments can invoke principles of freedom when they undermine a rival government, while simultaneously behaving like a savage tyrant at home. This should not be difficult to understand.

I have been horrified by the libertarian coverage of events in Ukraine. Much of it has been such an uncritical parroting of Kremlin propaganda, so devoid of journalistic integrity, and such a betrayal of libertarian principles, that I can’t decide whether the authors, many of whom I’ve long admired, suffer a bias toward contrarian narratives or are on the Kremlin payroll.

One of the most ridiculous examples is Ry Dawson of rys2sense.com so carelessly echoing the Kremlin’s 70-year-old propaganda of labeling all opposition fascist, that he even called Ihor Kolomoiski a Nazi-worshiping fascist. Kolomoiski is a Ukrainian oligarch and the recently appointed governor of Dnipropetrovsk province. He is also not only Jewish, but the co-founder and president of the European Jewish Union.

Paul Craig Roberts attempted to de-legitimize Ukraine’s protests by praising the now-deposed Yanukovych regime and turning a blind eye to its barbarity. His praise includes the term “human-rights trained Ukrainian police”, this after the police had begun kidnapping injured protesters from hospitals. One such protester, Yuriy Verbytsky, a seismologist from the Geophysical Institute in Lviv and mountain climber was injured in the protests, hospitalized, kidnapped from the hospital, severely beaten, and left in the woods where he froze to death. “Human-rights-trained” police do not strip and humiliate captured protesters in -10 C degree weather.

The corruption and savagery of Ukraine’s police is neither secret nor new. Last summer, police stepped aside during a violent raid against the business interests of opposition politician. The business manager was later assassinated. This sort of corporate raiding has been fairly common, though most victims quietly give up their businesses without a fight. There was also this story of policemen connected to the Party of Regions raping a young woman and going free until a rioters sacked the police station, it was a tragic repeat of a brutal rape-murder that happened the year before, also by politically connected persons who were also released by Ukraine’s “human rights trained” police.

It’s one thing to oppose intervention. I’ve done so myself. It’s another to mischaracterize the barbarity of the Yanukovych regime in an attempt to discredit the uprising against it.

Daniel McAdams, executive director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace has made the libertarian circuit — lewrockwell.com, the Tom Woods Show, the Scott Horton Show, and of course, RT. He makes a number of ridiculous claims, including the argument that the Russian military already had free reign in Crimea: “How can you annex and invade a territory in which you are already legally present?”

I really don’t know what to make of this. Can anyone help me? I find it equally unlikely that he is this disconnected from reality or that he is deliberately spreading disinformation. Are there other explanations?

The claim is analogous to having US soldiers remove their insignia, don balaclavas, surround and take over Cuban military bases, hi-jack Cuban Naval vessels, kill two Cuban soldiers, threaten civilians, and then claim the aggression is legal because the US military is leasing a military base in Guantanamo Bay by mutual agreement.

Justin Raimondo of Anti-War seemed to make a similar claim and offered this insanely aggressive polemic, against Alexander McCobin of Students for Liberty who offered a very respectful and reasonable criticism of libertarian sympathy toward Putin.

USA Watchdog’s interview with Dmitry Orlov was so over-the-top biased, it seemed like The Onion: “Ukraine is a no-man’s land in the west, and Russian territories in the east. . . . [Western Ukraine] is an insolvent nugget of nothingness.” They repeatedly deleted my comments from the video. Incidentally, if any libertarians want to visit me in the heart of the “insolvent nugget of nothingness,” know that last year Reuters rated Lviv the #1 European City to see now.

I have respected and looked up to some of these authors for a long time. I corresponded with several of them. You’d think they’d consider me an asset. I’m Ukrainian and have lived in Ukraine for two years. I know the people, the culture and the historical context. My libertarian credentials are easily verified. I’ve written for the Mises Institute since 2010, the Daily Anarchist since 2011. I’ve spoken at the Property and Freedom Society and elsewhere. Appealing to them was like speaking to a brick wall. I was either ignored or lectured and scorned for my “blindness.”

Of course, you can accuse me of being biased. I’m Ukrainian, but I think the examples above are so glaring, they demonstrate there’s something strange happening in the libertarian media.

Also, I’ve never taken the Ukrainian nationalist or neo-con interventionist line. I’ve argued against Ukraine joining the EU or NATO, against western military involvement, and that Ukraine might be better off without Crimea and some eastern provinces despite my impression that slim to moderate majorities of these territories want to remain with Ukraine. See more evidence of my views here, here, here, here, here, and here.

Also, I am not alone. I have libertarian friends from Russia, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Poland, Belarus and all over Ukraine, who, after years of looking to America’s libertarian community as a light of knowledge and inspiration, now feel utterly betrayed.

In the words of my good Russian friend and co-author Dr. Yuri Maltsev:

I am glad that there is a growing opposition to Putin’s regime in Russia itself. The list of eminent Russian intellectuals against aggression in Ukraine is much longer than those confused libertarians who support “Russian national interests” (Mises and Hayek would detest such an expression).

He has also written:

There is nothing libertarian in the neo-Stalinist Putin’s regime. Stalinism is an exact opposite of freedom. It is the same as to embrace Hitler just because he disliked FDR. Enemy of my enemy is not necessarily a friend . . . I think that socialists Timoshenko and Yushchenko [the Orange revolution politicians elected after mass protests in 2004] squandered Ukrainian prospects for freedom and prosperity and should be blamed for that, but the alternative (Putin-Yanukovich) proved to be way more disgusting.

A number of Facebook groups have formed in reaction. Here is an interview with a British ex-pat living in Lithuania who formed the group Confused Pro-Putin Libertarians.

Like all propaganda, the Kremlin propaganda regarding Ukraine relies on repetition of a small number of simple ideas. It hurts me to see so much of the libertarian media uncritically parroting them. There are three:

I – Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to secede.

II – The protests are orchestrated by foreign intelligence agencies.

III – Violent Ukrainian Nazis threaten ethnic minorities.

All three of these are wrong, and the last two are deeply hypocritical.


I am all for secession, but what happened in Crimea wasn’t it.

Over 123% of Sevastopol residents voted.

A Russian journalist demonstrated she could vote with a Russian passport.

Pro-Ukrainian activists were kidnapped. So were Ukrainian Journalists.

International journalists had their equipment seized. There is some evidence that phones, cameras and tablets from Norwegian and Polish journalists were passed to Russia’s intelligence agency, the FSB.

– Russian documentary film makers posted this footage in which they were chased, harassed, threatened and shown the destroyed media equipment of other journalists.

– For the last several weeks, Vice magazine has managed to produce footage of confrontations with masked gunmen bent on secrecy. The “referendum” was shrouded in extreme secrecy.

So somebody please tell Ben Swann that it’s not quite accurate to lead with “Crimea overwhelmingly votes to leave Ukraine for Russia.” Again, I’m all for secession, but this wasn’t it. It was aggression, fraud and annexation.

– The fact that the result was 96% unanimous should be sufficient evidence of fraud. There is historic data on this issue. IRI conducted surveys in Crimea in 2009, 2011 and 2013:

40 to 45% of Crimeans considered their identity to be Russian.
23 to 33% favored joining Russia.
In 2013, 12% rated relations with Russia as one of the top three issues (from a list of 17).
Interestingly, as of 2013, 40% of Crimeans do not use the internet.

One can accuse IRI of being biased, though the study details their methodology. They are also consistent with Ukrainian surveys. The 2001 census, which measured ethnicity, not identity, showed that Crimea was 58% Russian. The census didn’t allow for “Crimean” as did the IRI surveys, hence the discrepancy.

Also, this wasn’t the first referendum in Crimea. During the referendum for Ukrainian independence in 1991, a narrow majority of Crimeans (54%) supported becoming part of independent Ukraine.

So, while the views of the substantial minority should certainly be taken into account, the 96% result is absurd, especially since 30% of Crimeans consider themselves either Crimean-Tartar or Ukrainian.

For what it’s worth, when Ukraine gave up the third largest Nuclear arsenal in the world in 1994, the agreement required Russia and other countries to recognize Ukraine’s territorial integrity.

Part of Putin’s justification for betraying this agreement and annexing (this is the accurate term) Crimea was the protection of ethnic minorities. What would the Putinist libertarians say about the Catholic clergy and Tartars who are now refugees. See also, Ukrainian Catholics experiencing ‘total persecution’ in Crimea. How would Pat Buchanan square these headlines with his fawning coverage of Russia’s Christian values?

What would the cheerleaders of Crimean “secession” say about the recently passed Russian law which goes into effect next month and forbids “Public calls to actions aimed at violating the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation.” So for example, starting next month, if Ukrainians in Russia’s Kuban region, who outnumber Russians, even spoke about secession, they’d face prosecution.

I’d also be curious to hear them comment on the two brutal wars Russia waged to prevent secession of Chechnya in 1994 and 1999. It would distinguish principles from Putinism.


Paul Craig Roberts describes the protesters as “pawns” who would “place their country in the hands of the IMF so that it can be looted like Latvia.”

Does he not realize how dramatically higher the standard of living is in Latvia than in Ukraine? The desire for a better life is not a CIA conspiracy.

Remember, I’m against Ukraine joining the EU. I think Ukraine can find greater freedom by embracing its historic role as a borderland, but the preference for EU membership over Russian-puppet kleptocracy is completely rational. Compare any post-Soviet EU nation (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), to any post-Soviet non-EU nation (Ukraine, Belarus) and the difference in quality of life is staggering.

I have no illusions that western intelligence agencies aren’t heavily involved here. I can’t imagine a scenario in which they wouldn’t be. Can you?

It is correct to say that Western intelligence/EU/NATO/globalists/World Bankers have worked to bolster and direct Ukraine’s revolution. It is incorrect to claim they orchestrated a coup.

Consider this historical context:

Somewhere between 3 and 12 million Ukrainians were exterminated by the Soviet Union in a single man-made famine from 1932-1933, and the Great Famine was neither the first nor the last great slaughter of Ukrainians. In western Ukraine, armed resistance to the Soviet Union, arguably the most brutal regime to have ever exited, lasted until 1955 — for a full decade after WWII ended. This was at a time when the United States provided material aid to the Soviet Union, so obviously the resistance was homegrown.

Is it so hard to believe that the inheritors of this legacy are resisting what they perceive as the kleptocracy descended from the Soviet Union which is empowered by a former KGB agent-turned President of Russia?

The evidence for western involvement is as follows:

1) An American-made viral video. I agree. This is troubling. I have criticized the super slick, victimology 101, “I am a Ukrainian” viral video both before and after discovering it was made by American film maker Ben Moses. (What the hell was doing in Kyiv?)

2) $5 Billion dollars. Paul Craig Roberts was technically correct when he stated that $5 Billion has been spend in Ukraine for the highly suspicious purpose of “promoting Democracy.” Stefan Molyneux repeated this figure. Neither of them mentioned it had been spent since 1991. Politifact.com concluded that a direct connection between the $5 billion and the protests is a “distortion.” Their analysis breaks down how the money was spent.

3) Victoria Nuland’s phone call choosing the opposition. I posted it on my blog with commentary. She seems to choose Arseniy Yatsenyuk as her favorite opposition politician. This is troubling because he was then appointed Prime Minister for the interim government which is to work until after elections in May.

This is evidence of foreign powers hi-jacking the revolution, not orchestrating it. From the moment opposition politicians expressed support for the protests, Ukrainians have been circulating memes ridiculing them. Vitali Klitschko was sprayed in the face with a fire extinguisher on Maidan when he attempted to address to protesters. I personally attended the funeral of one of the killed protesters. His fellow protester dedicated almost an entire few-minute eulogy to admonishing the opposition politicians. “It wasn’t for them that we sacrificed,” he said.

It seems obviously that the opposition politicians have been were playing catchup to the protests, rather than being their driving force.

As Ukraine’s new government evolves, keep an eye on Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Yulia Tymmoshenko. In my estimation, those are the favorite candidates of the globalists who want to use Ukraine as a foil against Russia. Curiously, Tymmoshenko is probably also the one favored by Putin, because of previous dealings they had together. I’m happy to see Ukrainians deeply skeptical about both of them.

4) As the title of Paul Craig Robert’s article states: US and EU Are Paying Ukrainian Rioters and Protesters.

His evidence?

One reader wrote: “My wife, who is of Ukrainian nationality, has weekly contact to her parents and friends in Zhytomyr [NW Ukraine]. According to them, most protesters get an average payment of 200-300 grivna, corresponding to about 15-25 euro. As I additionally heard, one of the most active agencies and ‘payment outlets’ on EU side is the German ‘Konrad Adenauer Stiftung’, being closely connected to the CDU, i.e. Mrs. Merkel’s party.”

Johannes Loew of the Internet site elynitthria.net/ writes: “I am just back from Ukraine (I live in Munich/Germany) and I was a lot at the Maidan. Most of those people get only 100 grivna. 300 is for Students.”

The wife of an anonymous reader, plus what seems like an expletive-filled pro-Putin website seems like very shaky evidence on which to headline a widely circulated article.

I would not be surprised if somebody was on the payroll of Western intelligence, but there’s little evidence. There’s also a lot of evidence of the sentiment being genuine. How do I know?

My lead software developer traveled to Kyiv every time violence flared up. He, like many Ukrainians, considered it his duty. After major bloodshed started on February 20th, I texted him: “Should I wish you a safe journey?” He texted me back: “You’re late. I’m already on Maidan.”

He owns an SUV and a three-story home where he lives with his wife and two children. We go skiing together. He’s part of Ukraine’s miniscule middle class and not the type of person who’d be motivate by the thirty Euros which the wife of some anonymous reader of Mr. Roberts insists is motivating the protesters. Ridiculous!

You can also read through the profiles of the deceased protesters and find scientists, university lecturers and all sorts of young professionals.

I have also been to maidan numerous times and have enough very close friends among the protesters, friends who confide in me. I don’t doubt that somebody is being subsidized, but it’s not the norm. My friends have been investing their own money in travel, body armor, and days off from work. It was a grass roots protests with people from all walks of society, including women, old people, and at least one insanely courageous 16 year old lying to his mother about his safety while protesters are killed just meters away.

By contrast, the anti-Maidan protests and, more recent, the pro-Russian ones are overwhelmingly (though not entirely) military-aged men. There have been instances of them discussing their pay — raw footage here, and here, and possibly here.

The supposedly spontaneous pro-Russian protesters in the east were heavily armed and took hostages. When in the history of spontaneous, grassroots protests have the protesters taken hostages?

They numbered between dozens and hundreds in Donetsk and Kharkiv whose populations exceed a million, or about 500,000 in the case of Luhansk. Some of the arrested leaders had Russian passports. Also, here.

5) Snipers were hired by the opposition. On February 20th, snipers began killing unarmed protesters deep inside the protest camps raising the death toll to about 100. Until then, violence had been relegated to the area of the barricades facing government buildings.

It seems the evidence for this is a phone call between EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet in which they say that the bullet wounds suffered by the 13 police who were killed are the same as those suffered by the protesters. As far as I know, that’s it.

I posted the conversation with commentary on my blog.

The evidence to the contrary includes the arrest of 12 special policemen, a Russian FSB colonel who admitted to being in Kyiv during the escalation, and apparent photos of SBU agents preparing for the slaughter.

I don’t know what happened, though the preponderance of the evidence seems to suggest either government- or Russian-backed snipers. The importance of this is exaggerated in my opinion. The moral authority of the protesters and illegitimacy of the government was establish long before the bloody escalation on February 20th.

6) The US sponsored anti-government media. I think this one is 100% accurate. The best detailing of this influence I’ve read is from Daniel McAdam’s colleague at the RPIP, Steve Weissman. His article details how much was spent on which media sources. The article is great, though completely incongruous to its title “Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev.” There’s plenty to criticize in this, but let’s be precise. Sponsoring media is very different from “put[ting] together a Coup.” The article also acknowledges that US foreign policy toward Ukraine “was – and is – only minimally about overthrowing Ukraine’s duly elected government.”

The US’s sponsoring of dissident media is also only half the story. There are also news sources in Ukraine that vigorously promote the Russian perspective.

I would not describe the Tea Party (about which I’ve co-authored a book, incidentally) as orchestrated by Russian intelligence just because RT supports libertarian ideas in the United States, and I would not describe Ukraine’s protests are orchestrated by Western intelligence just because they sponsor news media which promotes democracy, anti-corruption, and measured economic liberalism.

Let’s also discuss the hypocrisy:

In addition to the Russian nationals taking over government buildings in Eastern Ukraine, the whole Yanukovych regime, now-deposed, was much more of a foreign operation than the protests against it, though it was an operation of the Russian FSB. The fact that Russian intelligence is active in all levels of Ukrainian government is common knowledge.

In the context of the protests, Russian media used the same actress in five different locations posing as a citizen concerned about the protests. (Which is your favorite hairstyle?)

Here is a story from the St. Petersburg Times about how the Kremlin employs professional internet propagandists. (Maybe some will visit Daily Anarchist?)

A Russian reporter who was beaten by anti-Maidan hooligans, whom, ironically, he was trying to heroicize, claimed later that he was attacked by Maidan protesters. In February, Russian sponsored news pulled the plug on a Crimean politician mid-sentence when he began talking about the corruption of the now-deposed Yanukovych regime.

I know about very obvious use of provocateurs among the protesters from first hand accounts. Here is a detailed analysis.

Russians also finance, equip, advise and even man separatists movements in Ukraine. Here is a story about the recent arrest of a Russian national.

We libertarians are supposed to be the smart ones, the rational ones. It should not be beyond our capacity to understand that two rival intelligence agencies are at work in Ukraine.


It is wrong to characterize the protests as “violent.” They remained as peaceful as typical Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street protests even after five protesters were killed and dozens kidnapped. It was mostly people singing songs and resisting attempts to remove them from Kyiv’s central square. No stores were smashed or looted despite this being the most expensive commercial real estate in Ukraine. Alcohol was forbidden among the protesters.

On January 16th the Yanukovych government, without following legislative procedure, passed legislation nearly identical to a Russian law which criminalized virtually every form of protest. Protesters began receiving SMSs from their cellular phone companies telling them they’ve been listed as having taken part in illegal mass disturbances. This was a pivotal moment where Ukraine could have either become a Belarus-style dictatorship, or insisted on deposing the government. They made the right decision.

The evidence for the protesters being violent fascists and neo-nazis seems to be photos depicting SS symbols among the protesters and the opposition politician Oleh Tyahnybok. You can find a typical collection of photographs and accusations here, though the guys with the swastika tattoos are Russian, not Ukrainian. The “I’m Ruskie” sweatshirt gives it away. More on that hypocrisy later.

First, realize that for seventy years, the Kremlin’s domestic propaganda has centered on convincing Russians that they are surrounded by Nazis poised to invade, and that the only defense is offense. This propaganda did not end with the Soviet Union. Russia imagines Nazis everywhere, and when it can’t find them, it creates them:

– In 2002, Johan Backman, a spokesman for the Finnish Anti-Fascist committee accused the Foreign Ministry of Finland of Russophobia and racism. He had earlier claimed that during WWII, tiny Finland planned an ethnic cleansing of Russians in Karelia in order to create a Finno-Ugric superpower, possibly stretching as far as the Ural Mountains. He is very popular on Russian television. In March 2009, the newspaper Eesti Ekspress reported a link between him and the well-known Finnish neo-nazi Risto Teinonen, both of them being connected to the alleged former KGB agent Vladimir Ilyashevich.

– In 2007, Estonians were accused of being fascists and nazi sympathizers when they relocated (not even fully removed!) a statue from their capital celebrating their Soviet “liberators.” About 17% of Estonia’s population was deported to Siberia by their Soviet “liberators.”

Here is an article by a Lithuanian writer about how every attempt by Baltic States to distance themselves from their Soviet past is met with accusations of fascism and Nazism. “In 1988, the then Lithuanian SSR Supreme Council announced the tricolor as the official symbol of the Lithuanian SSR, and Russian comedian Mikhail Zhvanetksyi joked: ‘What is going on – Lithuania returned the fascist flag.’ I remember the audience applauded after the joke.”

Here is an article about Russian intelligence agents creating “Nazi” groups in Finland and Estonia:

“About 10 pro-Russia activists have created 5 organizations that are active in Estonia, these organizations all include the same people”, reported the chief commissioner. In Finland, another group consisting of 5 Russia’s agents, including the notorious Nazis Backman and Molari, created 5 organizations with the same 5 agents.

“We are taking about a small core group of pro-Russia’s individuals, who have created various organizations. Each of them typically consists of the same people belonging to different organizations.

Here is a story about how during Ukraine’s Orange Revolution in 2004, the pro-Russian regime orchestrated a cartoonishly explicit “Nazi” march in support the opposition candidate to discredit him.

This study of ideology in Belarus attempts to conflate Belorussian nationalism with Nazi collaboration during WWII.

– The pro-western regime of Saakashvili in Georgia, which fought a brief war with Russia in 2008, losing two provinces, was regularly accused of fascism by the Russian media. You can see cached stories and commentary in a Google search which have since been removed.

For the last 70 years, anybody in or near Russia’s sphere of influence who attempted to leave was accused of fascism and Nazism. This propaganda is nothing new.

I have encountered its effectiveness here in Lviv, the western Ukrainian city where I live. Two separate friends told me about phone calls from relatives in Moscow asking whether it’s true that in Lviv people have begun beating people in the streets for speaking Russian. Another friend who works in a hostel told me a Russian family stayed there for a week, barely leaving their room except to the grocery store because, she later discovered, they feared Ukrainian fascists would attack them. These accounts are so divorced from reality, I wouldn’t believe them if they weren’t first-hand accounts.

Russian is spoken every day in Lviv. One of the city’s street musicians often plays his guitar and sings in Russian in the city center. When the government was toppled and the police briefly disbanded, volunteers guarded the Russian consulate to prevent provocations.

So, the propaganda is old and effective, at least domestically. Now let’s look at the evidence.

Oleh Tyahnybok, the opposition politician often used as proof that he, as well as protesters are frothing at the mouth to begin murdering Russians and Jews isn’t a very good Nazi. He has repeatedly made statements about respecting ethnic minorities and says Israel is a good model of nationalism for Ukraine to follow. Also, he has very little standing with the protesters. He’s been an outsider with little support. His political party keeps trying to jump in front of the parade and failing in humiliating ways, like when wounded Maidan protesters slammed his party for falsely claiming them as members. Also, it’s widely rumored that he is sponsored by Russian interests for the purpose of radicalizing the opposition, though I’m unaware of any concrete proof.

The pictures of protesters with SS symbols (not swastikas) are real, unfortunately. WWII in eastern Europe was not the good versus evil struggle Americans typically imagine. Up to 25% of all Ukrainians had been exterminated by the Soviet Union in the two decades prior to the war. Of course there was massive collaboration.

There was collaboration from Russians too. Red Army artillery officer and Nobel Prize winning author Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s epic history of the Soviet gulag system includes testimony about how his Red Army unit faced much more frantic and desperate resistance from ethnically Russian Nazi units than from German ones.

But while this legacy was stamped out in Russia, in Ukraine, where armed resistance continued until 1955, it lives on.

See Timothy Snyder’s book Bloodlands to understand the plight of people trapped between Hitler and Stalin. This history is controversial and the subject of endless debate, but consider this account from the Jewish magazine Tablet:

So while Bandera and his men were responsible for killing Jews, their ideology wasn’t fundamentally anti-Semitic; rather, it was pro-Ukrainian, and anti- everyone who appeared to be in the way of that, which included the pro-Soviet Jews. . . . Of the 63 attempted and actual assassinations carried out by Ukrainian nationalists in the interwar period, only one was directed against a Jew.

Much to the delight of the Kremlin, a very (very, very) small minority of Ukrainian protesters don SS symbols as a symbol of resistance to Moscow. They do so because the Galician SS Division is viewed as a heroic last stand against the Soviets, who, I’ll remind you again, exterminated up to 25% of all Ukrainians in the two decades prior to WWII.

I’m not saying this is the complete narrative of the division, but one can understand why they garner sympathy:

– The division formed in 1943 when it was absolutely clear the Nazis were going to lose the war. The Division was supposed to form the core of an eventual Ukrainian Army. This followed the model from twenty years earlier when the “Sich Riflemen” of the defeated Austro-Hungarian Army formed the core of a professional Ukrainian army which fought first the Polish Army, then the Bolsheviks for the creation of a Ukrainian state, losing eventually on both fronts, but allowing for the declaration of an albeit short-lived Ukrainian state in 1918.

– The SS division formed with two stipulations: 1. they only be used to fight the advancing Red Army and 2. they be the only SS Division allowed to have priests. The latter is symbolically significant because when the Soviets first took over Western Ukraine (then-Poland) in 1939, they immediately slaughtered all the priests (and deported all the seminary students).

– The Galician SS Division, about 13,000 men from western Ukraine, suffered approximately 70-80% killed in action in the Battle of Brody which goes down in history as a mere speed bump along the Red Army’s advance to Berlin. At Brody they were encircled by the Red Army’s First Ukrainian Front.

– One survivor of the division, Hryhoriy Hevryk, joined the Red Army and became an official hero of the Soviet Union for actions in Poland.

History is not as simple as Hollywood would have you believe, especially in what were “the Bloodlands.”

Much more important than arguing over history is today’s charge from the Kremlin echoed by Ry Dawson, Stefan Molyneux, Paul Craig Roberts, Daniel McAdams, Justin Raimondo, Scott Horton and other prominent libertarians that the protests are “fascists,” neo-nazis,” and determined to harm Russians, Jews and other ethnic minorities.

Name calling is a tactic of the left. I would love to hear these authors articulate what exactly they think the protesters will do and what the evidence is. Their concern for Russians and Jews doesn’t seem to be shared by the actual Russians and Jews closest to the protests.

– There are plenty of videos like this one of ethnically Russian Maidan protesters talking about this propaganda. They fought and bled alongside the Ukrainian protesters to topple the Yanukovych regime.

So did Jews. I speculate about whether the presence of Israelis can be turned into a conspiracy here.

Here is well known Russian Nationalist and historian Boris Myronov explaining that Stepan Bandera was not a fascist.

Here the head rabbi of Kyiv explains the difference between nationalism and Nazism in the context of this accusation.

Here, another Kyiv rabbi who lived in the capital for the past 20 years discusses the protests. He says there’s no serious antisemitism in Ukraine and that it’s worse in Russia.

Here is an open letter from the Jewish community of Ukraine defending the reputation of the protests.

I cannot imagine more credible evidence against the propaganda being repeated by so many libertarians.

Now lets talk about hypocrisy:

If Putin was concerned by fascists, he could find one within arm’s reach. His adviser, Aleksandr Dugin uses the word “fascism” in his vision for what Russia should aspire to.

There are hundreds of Youtube videos of violent neo-nazis in Russia itself.

Two of the pro-Russian organizers in Easter Ukraine, Mika Ronkainen and Pavel Gubarev, both Russian citizens, posted pictures on social media of themselves in Nazi uniforms or with faux swastika banners.

What is the evidence that the protesters or new government is hostile to ethnic minorities? All of their animosity was directed at toppling a corrupt government.

No pro-Russian protesters have been harmed. On the other hand, here is a heartbreaking subtitled eyewitness account of the violence in Donetsk when pro-Ukrainian protesters were attacked by the pro-Russian counter protest. They were forced to kneel, urinated on, and two were stabbed to death. Here is some raw footage. The deceased, including 22 year old Dmytro Chernyavskiy, were Donetsk natives. Their attackers seemed to be foreigners to the city. They did not recognize the anthem of the local football team.

After the murders, the Kremlin, from its alternate reality, made a specific announcement about protecting Russians in Donetsk.

The Russian nationalist protesters (mob?) also killed two people in Kharkiv and beat Ukrainian writer and Kharkiv native Serhiy Zhadan who took part in pro-Ukrainian protests there.

It seems this brutality, which occurred in early to mid March is the reason the separatists agitation of the last few days in Eastern Ukraine has gotten so little support. In cities of over a million residents, only between dozens and hundreds of people stood in support of the separatists. There are videos which seem to show their supporters getting paid (here).

In Luhansk, the heavily armed and well-equipped separatists took 60 hostages. At the time of this writing, 51 have been released, but the standoff continues.

As I noted above, Pro-Ukrainian activists were kidnapped in Crimea, and Tartars and Catholics have been fleeing the region since armed men with balaclavas and no insignia on their uniforms arrived to “protect ethnic minorities.”

There has been no analogous violence toward pro-Russian demonstrators from pro-Maidan or pro-Ukrainian activists who so many libertarians have been accusing of fascism, neo-nazism, and hooliganism.

No Russian language books have been burned. In Crimea and Kharkiv, Ukrainian language books were burned.

Much fuss has been made about restricting the use of the Russian language. This concerns official government business only. The law requiring Ukrainian was widely ignored from 1991 until 2010. In 2010, an official exception was made for Russian. The new government proposed repealing this exception, but the president vetoed this. So, no change.

This is what causes Justin Raimondo to write: “One of the very first acts of the Ukrainian coup leaders after chasing out the duly elected government of Viktor Yanukovich was to outlaw the Russian language as an official “second language” in all regions of Ukraine.”

It never became a law, and it only concerns official government business. It doesn’t preclude use of Russian on television, in schools, or anywhere else. In some parts of Ukraine, almost all schools are Russian language.

By contrast, in Russia there are no Ukrainian schools whatsoever – not even in the Kuban region where Ukrainians outnumber Russians. In Moscow, in 2010, 50 Ukrainian language fiction books were seized from a library because of “ethnic radicalism.”

This hypocrisy repeats itself in every country along Russia’s border. Russia’s professional agitators will demand full status and accommodation for the Russian minority language, while within Russia itself, minority languages are considered “ethnic radicalism,” and story books get removed from libraries.


In the words of an Estonian friend:

What infuriates me most is that this is best example we have of semi-libertarian revolution where force was used and the goal of overthrowing the government was reached. We have TONS to learn from this. Instead, some of the libertarians start calling these people fascists and puppets of West (verbatim Kremlin phraseology, sic!). There was (and there had to be) wide support in society for Maidan protests, otherwise they would have stopped in mid December or so. And they wouldn’t have gotten any further even with millions of € from the west. Instead there was wide logistical support from civil society in Kiev (not even the hotbed of Ukrainian nationalism, which is more in Lviv) to enforce the barricades, feed the protesters, give medical support, etc. People wouldn’t do that for 10$ or 100$, they would do that for freedom and for better tomorrow. . . . .

My understanding of politics is greatly helped by 2 things that I have been lucky enough to experience:

1. Life in Soviet Union.
2. Experiencing social & political revolution first hand (Estonian Singing Revolution).

From first I learned how boldly state can lie and that people in power can resort to anything to stay in power. Also, of course I learned about the utter disaster that is socialism (it’s so bad, it’s not even funny). And while I do not want to conflate Soviet Union with Russia or Russian culture, there is way too many similarities between the leadership, TV and mentality in SU and current Russian Federation.

From second I learned what societal change looks like. It is something hard to describe, it is a time of chaos, of hope, of crazy events and uncertain future. Not something you want to live in permanently but still an exiting time to be around. And I hope this has given me some understanding of political events in other places and times.

This gives me (and others with similar fate) some edge over Westerners and also Western libertarians who don’t have that experience (not all of them of course). Some of them don’t recognize revolution from street protest and they also don’t seem to have any immunization against Soviet lies and propaganda. I hope this might explain some strange attitudes and claims from people who I presumed think in similar ways to me.

This is a very generous perspective. I hope he’s right, that libertarians, at least most of them, are simply mistaken.

tldr: Libertarian coverage of Ukraine has been characterized by misinformation, rote repetition of Kremlin propaganda, and the abandonment of journalist integrity and libertarian principles. Here’s the proof.

173 Responses to “Putin’s Libertarians”

  1. VanmindNo Gravatar says:

    “I really don’t know what to make of this. Can anyone help me? I find it equally unlikely that he is this disconnected from reality or that he is deliberately spreading disinformation. Are there other explanations?”

    I think the unlikely is likely. Which one, though, disconnect or disinfo? Depends, I suppose, on the so-called journalist. The only person Mr. Skaskiw mentioned whom I pretend to know enough about to trust is Mr. Maltsev. Here’s hoping that Mr. Maltsev blows the cover off the libertarian scribe-sect as he would have done to Bolshevists in 1905. It’s time for him to eschew “important” circles and join the loneliest crowd.

    As to the subject itself, The Doctor has already seen patients about that very pathology.

  2. Ukrainians should listen to Roman and pursue a “borderland” policy of non-alignment. Do not join any customs unions (which, by their very nature, raise barriers to trade with those not in the customs union); do not join any collective defense organizations, like NATO. These actions force people to choose, when no such choice either is necessary or wise. It won’t be easy, but Ukraine should unilaterally adopt free trade, which means that it will accept goods into Ukraine even when Ukrainian goods are not accepted. Remember, imports enrich the importing nation. Ukraine should accept development investments from anywhere in the world. It makes no difference who owns a business; economic science does not recognize political affiliations.

    • VanmindNo Gravatar says:

      Ah, but those very same NWO scum are the ones who split the subject of Political Economy into the “separate” disciplines of Economics and Political Science.

      I hear you, though. I cry all the time that “political activism is inherently immoral.” When faced with a choice of action (Human Action), it is imperative that each of us choose the economic activity over the political activity.

      Problem is in this upside-down fraud of an emerging global society, there are already so many institutionalized socialist scams available as “new normal” that most people would apply for a Government Innovation Grant and then insist that their action is purely economic — because, they’d say, no matter who you are you didn’t build that

      Aside: I forgot to congratulate the person who came up with the image of Putin riding His Little Pony. Haven’t laughed that hard all week.

  3. Yuri MaltsevNo Gravatar says:

    I am very proud to be a member of the libertarian movement together with Roman and other heroes like him. “Putin’s Libertarians” (what and oxymoron!) are as libertarians as I am an emperor of China. I was afraid that they would kill the movement with lies manufactured by Kremlin or invented by themselves to please it. Any defense of Stalinist Putin oppressing and killing his own people and invading and killing others is indefensible.

    If we understand what is evil — we are out of danger – ideas of liberty that is what unites us. Thank you Roman! Ogromnoe spasibo!

  4. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    The author of this article makes some valid points, but also defends Oleh Tyahnybok, the leader of Svoboda, which took several ministerial seats after the overthrow of Yanokovich.

    Svoboda was condemned in an official resolution voted and adopted by the European Parliament. The document, titled “European Parliament of 13 December, 2012 on the Situation in Ukraine,” is available online.

    In section 8 of the resolution, the EU’s legislative body declares itself “concerned about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine, expressed in support for the Svoboda party, which, as a result, is one of the two new parties to enter the Verkhovna Rada,” the Ukrainian parliament.

    Stating that “racist, anti-Semitic, and xenophobic views go against the EU’s fundamental values,” the European Parliament “therefore appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse, or form coalitions with this party.”

    Even the BBC made a film, here (http://www.globalresearch.ca/bbc-now-admits-armed-nazis-led-revo lution-in-kiev-ukraine/5372232), about the fascist element of the protests, and says these groups led the charge.

    Must be a pretty big conspiracy theory. Goes from the BBC all the way to the European Union parliament…

    • Yuri MaltsevNo Gravatar says:

      Someone wrote: “Goes from the BBC all the way to the European Union parliament…”. All the way is a millimeter long!

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Aww cute 🙂 you got a little conspiracy theory going there.

        • Yuri MaltsevNo Gravatar says:

          What kind of conspiracy John? BBC is a government broadcasting corporation of the UK – a member of the EU. It is known as one of the most liberal/socialist media outlets of Europe and an ardent apologist of the EU.

  5. MontanarchistNo Gravatar says:

    Very long arguement. But if any government can be right, Russia is right here. These people want to be Russian. That is litteraly all that matters

  6. Romanian LibertarianNo Gravatar says:

    I love this article, and I agree with it 1000%
    Thumbs up.

  7. Ed KNo Gravatar says:

    Let me congratulate Roman on his latest scribing.
    An article well written and deserving circulation.

    Let me reply to John and Svoboda. Svoboda is not in
    fact a fascist organization rather a ethic pride organization.
    Unfortunately some of its followers adopt old Nazi
    appearances because the Nazi’s fought the Soviets or
    statism or Marxism.

    The average Svobodan has pride of his Ukrainian heritage.
    That pride is confronting the former Soviets and embodied
    in Putin’s current path.

    The EU is against Svoboda because Svoboda is opposed to
    pan Eupope. The EU is opposed to any group that opposes
    its super bureaucratic state.

    All should grasp that Svobada is pro ethnic Ukrainian at
    its heart. Some of that ethnic heritage is concept of freedom
    of individual. That heritage can be traced to Cossacks and the
    writings of Phyp Orlyk in early 1700’s.

    Orlyk’s written constitution should be read as understanding
    of Ukraine and groups such as Svoboda. It is in Ukrainians
    DNA to be free.

  8. Great piece! And you can definetly add Bulgarian libertarians to the group of EEuropeans appalled by the pro-Russian coverage in the US liberty blogosphere, since we have to deal with Kremlin propaganda and interventions here as well.
    But that’s okay – after all we are “in Russia’s traditional sphere of influence” as the RPI says. So no aggression there

  9. СтаматNo Gravatar says:

    THE most awesome article i’ve read on the subject. Being Eastern European i can relate to every line in it.

  10. Why link to the interview with Ryan without mentioning its context in a podcast episode all about this very subject (the worrying glorification of Putin in alternative media and the need to condemn the Russian government for their crimes)? Puzzling.

    A discussion on this subject in which I further elaborate on this position:


    • I’ve been really impressed with Corbett Report even before their balanced coverage of Ukraine.


      I haven’t missed an episode since discovering them a few months ago.

      In this essay, I was speaking to the portion of libertarians who seem to be getting it wrong, so I didn’t mention the rest of your show. Maybe I should have.

      • Alright, thank you for the reply. I’d be interested in having you on my program to discuss your perspective on Ukraine further. Contact me via my site and we’ll arrange it.

  11. Mike HaggardNo Gravatar says:

    Wow!! There’s so much complicity within this article, that I hardly know where to begin. Or, for that matter, why I even feel compelled to post.

    My thoughts are on the fly here, but I think the article disturbed me because it illustrates just how difficult it is to discern the truth. Yes…that’s it exactly!

    Paul Craig Roberts is a little out there for me on some of his ideas, so I often take what he has to say with a grain of salt (sorry for the colloquialism now that I see there are so many readers from other parts of the world).

    However, it’s very disturbing to me that Ben Swann, Justin Raimondo, and particularly Stefan Molyneux are cited as (to lump into one category) having it wrong. I’m guilty of utilizing (and perhaps even “relying”) on these people as “trusted sources” that help me form an image of the world around me.

    Additionally, Ukraine is just too far removed from my purview (and the situation is apparently extremely complex) for me to invest the necessary time and energy into truly “knowing” what the situation is there.

    The take-away for me though was this; Libertarianism is not just an American concept and/or an ideal that is only happening in the U.S. In fact, this article illustrated that not only do the ideals of Libertarianism exist in many other parts of the world, but that in these other places, it may even be a more prevalent philosophy than it is here in the U.S. To put this another way; people around the world, and most recently in Ukraine, appear to be “taking action” for the sake of some aspect of securing or increasing their liberty. I find that significantly more encouraging than discouraging.

    Thank you Roman for taking the time to provide such an in-depth perspective on events in Ukraine. I found it very edifying.

    • victorkiriakusNo Gravatar says:

      I have read that the moment the legally elected government of Ukraine was overthrown, the people in Ukraine were free to set up a government of their choice under international law. Why is Roman so accepting of the new government of Ukraine that gained power by force, but so distraught that the people of Crimea voted to join Russia?

      Every article I have read says that the majority of the people that live there are Russian and they overwhelmingly wanted to join Russia. Does Roman honestly think the people of Crimea were forced to join Russia against their will?

      I have a friend from Ukraine and she says the Russian majority areas of Ukraine want to join Russia or split off from Ukraine and form a separate nation. She also says that Paul Craig Roberts is mostly right in his analysis. I think it is fair to ask Roman what his sources of funding are since he speculated on how certain libertarians were funded.

      • MaxNo Gravatar says:

        Question: If the authorities were so CERTAIN and it is SO blindingly obvious that most of Crimea wants to join Russia… why rig the vote? (As clearly shown by Roman).

        Doesn’t that make you wonder?

        Why not allow any international observers in to save the headache that followed?
        Why was it done under the barrel of a gun?

  12. VegasNo Gravatar says:

    Dmitry Orlov’s attitude was the most surprising to me. So much chauvinist hatred from a person who holds significant influence among Libertarians.

  13. Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

    I have no sympathy for Putin, and I don’t believe that Justin Raimondo sympathizes with him either. I see no good guys in the internecine struggle between the Russian state and the newly constituted Ukrainian state over Crimean sovereignty. A plague on both their houses.

    I don’t know half (or a quarter or an eighth) of what Roman Skaskiw knows about this predicament. My only interest in these events, both the overthrow of the Yanukovych regime and the secession/annexation of Crimea, is minimizing the rents imposed on me by the state subjugating me in order to favor one side or the other.

    I don’t believe that Russia today constitutes a Hitlerian menace portending a genocidal tragedy in Ukraine requiring all decent human beings to render aid, but that’s hardly a defense of Putin. The current Ukrainian regime could be worse for most Crimeans than Russian subjugation, but I’m in no position to reach this conclusion, and I haven’t reached it, and I don’t need to reach it to oppose U.S. involvement.

    • VegasNo Gravatar says:

      Martin, Putin is a genocidal criminal, he exterminated 50,000 people in the tiny nation (1 million people) of Chechnya. Russian invasions are a huge threat to the Central-Eastern Europe, comparable to Hitler’s invasions.

      • MontanarchistNo Gravatar says:

        You don’t seem to understand the vast differences between both Nazi Germani and Putins Russia and the geopolitical atmosphere in 1939 vs 2014.

        • VegasNo Gravatar says:

          Political atmosphere is actually very similar. Again we have a global economical depression, bankrupt western powers, and rising aggressive nationalist authoritarian power which is not shy of genocide.

      • Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

        I am not Putin’s defense attorney here. That states in this region are tyrannical is tragic, but it’s no argument for a continental war. Comparing Chechnya to Nazi occupied Europe is simply reductio ad Hitlerum. The comparison is so facile that it no longer has any impact.

        You could as easily compare U.S. occupied Iraq to Nazi occupied Europe and accuse Bush and Obama of genocide for the million Iraqis who allegedly died as a result of the conflict, and libertarians routinely do so. I might even sympathize with you, but that’s beside the point. I don’t therefore advocate Russia or China or Iran or any other state joining the fray to combat the U.S. occupation.

        An Iraqi directly threatened by U.S. forces has a right to defend himself against the aggression, and an individual in Crimea or eastern Ukraine has the same right, whether the aggressor is an agent of the Russian state or of the Ukrainian state, but that’s as far as I’ll go. I have no interest whatever in taking sides in a dispute between warring states over control of Crimea. I oppose both sides.

        • VegasNo Gravatar says:

          Martin, Nazis exterminated 5% of ethnic Poles in Poland, Putin exterminated 5% of Chechens. Where is the difference? Both are comparably bad for Europe.

          • Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

            Countless differences exist, and I need not enumerate them. If you want to believe that Putin is equivalent to Hitler and his Russia equivalent to Nazi Germany and Chechnya equivalent to Poland and that you’re on the side of the angels in a battle with these devils, go ahead. I’m not playing this game with you. You’re talking up a grand clash of good and evil, and this sort of talk leads to the wars that are the health of states. You’re a pawn in a statist game in the grips of its grandest illusion.

  14. J. Eric AndreasenNo Gravatar says:

    Thank you so much for an extensive and intensive analysis of the situation in Ukraine, and the distressing reportage by so many prominent ‘libertarians’. Your efforts are very much appreciated.

  15. Hunt TooleyNo Gravatar says:

    A thousand thanks to Roman for this absorbing piece. I will be re-reading it more than once. Along with the analysis of Yuri, this is indeed a guidepost for “foreign policy” principles of non-aggression. Imagine the irony of all this support for the Chekist Putin!

  16. Volodymyr PanchenkoNo Gravatar says:

    The main isue lost in the article(though it is widely explaines ukrainian realities) – many protesters in Kyiv did so to overthrow Yanukovich regime for total cooruption, in fact total blocking of normal economic activity. Civil freedoms as well, but it was much written about it before. After the fall of Yanokuvich, protests in eastern provinces of Ukraine(backed by russia or not) were oriented on langauge and ethnic problems of people. western media cannot get the difference. Speaking about RT – it is soviet style propaganda instrument where so many lies that it can not be called media. Thank you for article, but your opinion of Ukraine not to join NATO ana EC are theoretical if Ukraine to stay an independent country, not to become russian controlled territory

  17. AnontarianNo Gravatar says:

    As a side comment about the ““insolvent nugget of nothingness”, Ludwig von Mises was born in Lviv.

  18. Jim DaviesNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks Roman for a fine article!

    Not all libertarians oppose the February changes. While the Maidan protests were building to a climax I posted remarks at http://strike-the-root.com/blogs/jim-davies/ukraine which included reference to Iryna Riasnianska as having said “WE DO NOT FIGHT FOR EUROPE,WE FIGHT AGAINS YANUKOVICH.”

    Do you know if that lady is still alive and well?

  19. SSemansNo Gravatar says:

    Reading Raimondo’s pieces and this piece lead me to the same conclusion: the only honorable course to urge upon the U.S. government, EU, AND Russia is to Just Get Out. If this creates a “power vacuum” into which Russian neocon Putin steps, so be it. As I was growing up everyone “knew” that failing to oppose Communism in Vietnam and elsewhere would hand it world domination, but it collapsed under its own weight. The only question libertarians should be asking is whether Crimeans are substantially safer and freer under Russia or Ukraine – if it’s “neither” then why should we care? About this “ethnic pride” thing, you’re talking racism, which is arguably just as bad as hierarchialism (government) and not a libertarian sentiment at all. It’s easy to be loyal to kin, to those who worship or speak as you do, and the strong tendency is to support them even when they’re wrong. The harder thing is to be loyal to a set of principles, to withhold support from the least bad, not to follow the stampede no matter how exciting it may feel to be making history. In the end you’ll only wonder if you could have made a better future by speaking rather than shouting or shooting.

  20. kingsley smithNo Gravatar says:

    Not from Ukraine or Russia….strictly speaking as an informed US taxpayer-I do know geography and history, thank you!-the fact is US/EU meddling in Ukraine internal affairs provoked and prolonged this violent coup.I am sick of my tax dollars going to regime change operations! The first thing out of the box this new unelected (as of yet) government did was BAN Russian language! What message does that send?Why can’t US/EU(International community) work with Russia to help Ukraine?I only hope Ukraine and YES-Russia too- grow and prosper….the long history in that part of the world is fascinating and unique….both deserve our support

    • Bad English? check.
      Awkward of use of American expressions? check.
      Comments betraying unfamiliarity with article? check.
      Pro-Russian mis-information? check.
      A name as American as apple pie? check.

  21. Yuri MaltsevNo Gravatar says:


  22. Danielle KlompNo Gravatar says:

    Ok im very Pro Putin these are the reasons:

    Putin shows out of his heart he is a straight leader
    Putin is thinking about Russia
    Putin has less immigration problems
    Putin has a ultra strong economy
    Putin has 4 cosmodromes Baikonur Plesetsk Dombarovskiy and the new Vostochniy
    Putin get false threats from the West ooh he is so dangerous…no he isnt
    Putin is a small man BUT WITH A HUGE BIG COUNTRY.
    Putin is not anti gay and he allowes demonstrations (yes there are succesfully demonstrations but do you hear about these ones…NO because the West EU and American Democrats are so scary for that tiny good president…)
    Why those Russians are underpressed because the EU are so scary for them Why????

    ive a lots of more Source from my Russian Roscosmos friends


  23. Danielle KlompNo Gravatar says:


    Хорошо им очень про Путина эти причины:

    Путин показывает из своего сердца он является прямой лидером
    Путин думает о России
    Путин имеет меньше проблем иммиграции
    Путин имеет ультра сильную экономику
    Путин имеет 4 космодромы Байконур Плесецк Домбаровского и новый Восточный
    Путин получить ложные угрозы с Запада ох он настолько опасен … нет, он не
    Путин маленький человек, но с ОГРОМНОЙ большой страны.
    Путин не против геев и он сеточки демонстрации (да есть успешно демонстрации, но ты слышишь об этих те … НЕТ, потому что Запад ЕС и американские демократы так страшно, что крошечные хорошего президента …)
    Почему эти русские под нажатии потому, что ЕС так страшно для них Почему???

    ив, много всяких более Источник из моих русских друзей Роскосмоса


  24. VasoNo Gravatar says:

    Roman, thanks for the most consistent and thorough account of the situation out there. It’s a pity that men like Stefan Molyneux failed at that. Following in the footsteps of Ayn Rand, whose self contradictions they found easy to see. One can only hope it is errors of knowledge. It shows how hard it is for people to follow principles and abstract from shorter term agenda.
    One minor point I would question – where did you get information that Ukranians outnumber Russians in Kuban? I am originally from there and don’t think so. There are many Ukranians in almost every region in Russia, but I would not say Kuban is especially prominent in this respect.
    However, by the way, there’s I think an outsized proportion of Ukranians in Russian army, notably officers.
    Kuban shared fate similar to Ukraine during collectivization (state organized famine).

    • The statement about Kuban is pretty widely circulated. I confirmed historic census data before putting it in this essay, but now that you mention it, the data is old. It also seems the Russians have simply started labeling everyone “Russian,” whether they identified that way or not.

      You can follow these links for discussion and historic census data:

      What’s your impression? Could it be a city/country divide? In Soviet times Russification went and in hand with urbanization. So, in Kharkiv for example, the city is entirely Russian speaking, but 15 minutes outside the city you get pure Ukrainian with this beautiful diminutive accent. I’ve been there twice. It surprised be b/c I had the impression the entire region was Russian speaking.

      • VasoNo Gravatar says:

        Yes, great many people have mixed Russian/Ukranian ethnicity, myself included (just realized/remembered!). Most do not care much and/or do not know who they are. Division is pretty arbitrary, as it should be. I did not notice much difference between small settlements (‘stanitsa’) and urban centres; maybe I did not look for it, also. One impression I did have recently is that Russians (whoever they actually are) are dying out.

        • I think it was Steve Sailor of the controversial website VDare who talked about how stupid it was for Ukraine and Russia to be fighting given that both are experiences serious demographic decline.

          However improving economic liberty is an important part of changing demographic trends, and the protests which toppled the Yanukovych regime were mostly about that — about getting rid of corruption and tyranny. Human’s aren’t suited for prison life.

          Regarding identity — It’s a bit of a shame to see that the brutality the Soviet Union resorted to in the 20s and 30s to erase Ukrainian culture and identity has been successful, but what seems to have emerged is a strong local identity.

          What you describe — people not very conscious of their ethnicity seems to be the case in the Russified cities of Ukraine now under contention — Donetsk, Luhansk, and to a lesser extent, Kharkiv and Odesa. There is strong local identity in all these places, which, in my opinion, is the best thing for them.

          A lot of the Ukrainian flag waving parades now underway in Kharkiv and Odesa have more to do with keeping the Russian clandestine forces away than with embracing the Ukrainian idea.

          I have a good friend from Rostov who likes to consider himself a Don Kozak (another culture mostly obliterated by the Soviets). I like that idea. The Kozaks were very libertarian, especially looking at their earlier history before they were co-opted into becoming the empire’s border guards.

          • VasoNo Gravatar says:

            Again, I agree with you on all counts.
            It’s unfortunate how successful were first the monarchs in co-opting Cossacks and second the communists in exterminating them as a society altogether. The things which went on there less than 100 years ago, witnessed by our grandparents, were hard to comprehend. Just reading about it makes one sick. Yuri Maltsev’s excerpt from a sailor’s statement is credible. It was not enough to kill by hacking bit by bit and leaving to die slowly in a pile of dead bodies; they felt a need to get dogs eat victims dead or alive. The ultimate product of statism – devolution to sub-animal state.
            I already posted here a while back about Cossacks having originally stateless society which was rather stable and Leo Tolstoy’s account of them. I think their experience is worth considering; especially the reasons they vanished. I know direct descendants of ‘thoroughbred’ Cossacks who are hopelessly statists and putinists. I think the problem with them was that they did not identify their values. Their moral code was more circumstantial than principled / rationally formulated. And that (moral code) is what is much more important than genetics / ethnicity.

  25. Yuri MaltsevNo Gravatar says:

    The statement of a British sailor about Kozaks being “repatriated” by the UK and US forces during Operation Keelhaul:

    “I took part in the evacuation of Dunkirk. Our soldiers felt very badly. I helped to fish out Germans from the sunken Bismarck, which received the greatest number of torpedoes in history. I saw the population of Malta sitting in the cellars for many weeks. I saw Malta being bombed incessantly and deafened by explosions of bombs and shells. They were exhausted from constant explosions and alarms. I lived through the sinking of my own ship. I know about jumping into the water at night, dark and without bottom, and the terrifying shouts for help of the drowning, and then the boat, and looking for the rescue ship. It was a nightmare. I drove German prisoners captured during the invasion of Normandy. They were almost dying from fear. But all that is nothing. The real, terrible, unspeakable fear I saw during the convoying and repatriation of people to Soviet Russia. They were becoming white, green and grey with the fear that took hold of them. When we arrived at the port and were handing them over to the Russians, the repatriates were fainting and losing their senses. And only now I know what a man’s fear is who lived through hell, and that it is nothing compared to the fear of a man who is returning to the Soviet hell. “

  26. Yuri MaltsevNo Gravatar says:

    It is really amazing that “libertarians” are defending Soviet/Putin’s hell.

  27. Jon GNo Gravatar says:

    Just because there are libertarians attacking USA in this situation doesn’t mean they are defending Russia, it’s just that no one needs to be convinced that Russia is a monster. It is a waste of energy to tell people about Russia’s wrong-doing. The mainstream media already has that covered.

    Russia is wrong. USA is wrong. Any libertarian who’s support either (or any) government is not much of a libertarian.

  28. Yuri MaltsevNo Gravatar says:

    Whom do you mean? What libertarians are in support of the US government?

  29. Grzegorz PawełczykNo Gravatar says:

    Whole situation confuses me a lot, because many great libertarian names like Paul, Molyneux, Rockwell speak the opposite way. So it’s great to read article like that one, however I think You miss some points.

    1. The first victim of the war is truth. Two great powers are meddling with Ukraine and to say there’s no CIA and FSB influence in Ukraine is understatement. We aren’t able to grasp what the real US policy in Ukraine looks like. We can’t see what Russians are really doing. We can only see some effects of espionages actions and guess the rest. That’s how CIA and FSB work. That’s why we call them “secret operations” and “secret services”.
    2. Paul Craig Roberts is not a libertarian. And above all he strongly criticizes deregulation and free market.
    3. The point so-called pro-putin libertarians are making, is that what we see, is global financial imperialism by the US. And Ukraine will be its new victim. Basically it’s lending money, then when country is unable to pay, bandit privatization. I see no argument against it above.
    4. Last but not least – geopolitics. I understand that it is unfair for average Ukrainian, but for geopolitical harmony Russia can’t allow NATO forces any more closer to her borders. Especially in the Black Sea region, when it is the only sea port with warm weather and the door to Middleterreann Sea and more – the way to protect Assad in Syria. There are 3 countries that do not surrender to American domination: China, Iran and… Russia. What Americans are doing is a power to world dominance. I do not sympathise with Russia, but politics is a dirty game. And if we don’t want another world war, it is better to have superpowers in a state of balance. That’s the “proputin libertarians” argument. I see no rebuttal above:/
    5. There’s a HUGE problem with a dollar, and the petrodollar system is collapsing. Countries openly trying to replace petrodollar with some new system are China, Iran, Russia. In no way I accuse You of it, but pretending Ukraine is completely different story seems naive. The economic situation is probably the main theme behind last conflicts.

    • Thank You…..well-written and to the point!

    • VasoNo Gravatar says:

      If only they did not conclude that Putin’s government has the right to do what they are doing. To enforce their “interests” in a region under their “sphere of influence” … by threatening bystanders with guns.
      There are 2 violent gangs. You are particularly concerned about the biggest one. A smaller gang challenges the biggest one. And that’s enough for you to sympathize with the smaller gang enough to come close to supporting it in its criminal activities. The smaller gang does not have anything in principle against the bigger one. It does not protest against bombing because it reckons bombing is immoral. It would be happy to do it itself, just not able yet.
      I don’t think any government can have any rights.

      • Grzegorz PawełczykNo Gravatar says:

        Hey, don’t get me wrong, “There are 2 violent gangs. You are particularly concerned about the biggest one.” – I AM but only because the biggest kills most people around the world and does most danger to world economy. “A smaller gang challenges the biggest one. And that’s enough for you to sympathize with the smaller gang enough to come close to supporting it in its criminal activities. ” – But I’M NOT supporting the smaller gang – it’s just that I prefer Cold War to Hot War. Balance of power that is.

  30. Doug NusbaumNo Gravatar says:

    I would like to suggest that all of you do a search on the the two words orwells boot. My 6600 word article will always be number 1 after paid links. In that article I offer evidence that, with very few exceptions, people are stupid (unable or unwilling to learn new things EXCEPT from some authority — different people recognize different authorities) and authoritarian. That is they are obedient to these authorities and uncritical of them. Once you understand this, all of the behaviors that confuse Mr. Roman Skaskiw now make sense.

    Stupid authoritarians do not do well with ambiguity. In their mental universe there is no grey. How this relates to this article is: Libertarians correctly see that the US government infringes on individual freedoms and that we tend to have less freedom with each passing year. Being stupid and authoritarian, (again this is true of almost everybody — self proclaimed libertarians are not excluded) most of them can not entertain the concept that some actions that are hostile to the US elite are also even more hostile to freedom. Like most people (unlike me since I have aspergers) emotions cloud their mental processes.

    To see this explained in great detail with much supporting information please read my orwells boot article. Also, if you have a couple of hours to spare, go to the link at xfoolnature.org where I go on for about 35000 words.

    I appreciate constructive criticism, and since I am trying to turn this into a book (Hey — how many of you have written articles that are #1 on all search engines? And that is not #1 out of 100 or 10,000 but #1 out of a few hundred thousand or a million or more depending on the engine) so if you know of any editors please let me know

  31. VegasNo Gravatar says:

    Here is another high profile Putinist Jim Kunstler speaking- Russia is preventing chaos in Ukraine, and Ukraine is just a province of Russia:

    “Aren’t a number of things obvious about the Ukraine situation? Such as: the Russians have a greater interest in preventing chaos there than the US has in any provisional disposition of the Ukrainian border and the composition of its government. Such as: for most of the 20th century Ukraine was essentially a Russian province, and at various times before that the ward of several other eastern European kingdoms.”

  32. Yuri MaltsevNo Gravatar says:

    Great quote of a Gulag prisoner Vasily Grossman on economic freedom (absent in Russia and somewhat growing in Ukraine:

    “I used to think freedom was freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of conscience. But freedom is the whole life of everyone. Here is what it amounts to: you have to have the right to sow what you wish to, to make shoes or coats, to bake into bread the flour ground from the grain you have sown, and to sell it or not sell it as you wish; for the lathe operator, the steelworker, and the artist it’s a matter of being able to live as you wish and work as you wish and not as they order you to. And in our country there is no freedom – not for those who write books nor for those who sow grain nor for those who make shoes.”

    … “He noted that “In people’s day-to-day struggle to live, in the extreme efforts workers put forth to earn an extra ruble through moonlighting, in the collective farmers’ battle for bread and potatoes as the one and only fruit of their labor, he could sense more than the desire to live better, to fill one’s children’s stomachs and to clothe them. In the battle for the right to make shoes, to knit sweaters, in the struggle to plant what one wished, was manifested the natural, indestructible striving toward freedom inherent in human nature. He had seen this very same struggle in the people in camp. Freedom, it seemed, was immortal on both sides of the barbed wire.”

    ― Vasily Grossman, Forever Flowing

    Also, an interesting article on Putin:


    • AntoineNo Gravatar says:

      quoting a blog called “the Russophobe”? Seriously?

      This post did deserve a comment, but since there are some Pravy Sektor an Svoboda elements, and anyone trying to show the nazi, pro Catholic white supremacist EU (by their own words, google Dimitry Yarosh + EU + catholicism) becomes a paid Putin troll, I’ll pass. But seriously, La Russophobe? And you preach libertarianism and love and peace and all the stuff? Thanks but I’ll stick with true libertarians, those who can go beyond their “Russophobia” and analyze a civil war situation exactly as it is, a civil WAR.
      So I’m gonna act at my humble level, the moment Ukraine asks to join the EU I will tell my deputy in the French parliament to tell Kiev to go to Daddy McCain, there is peace and love there.
      The public opinion in the EU is not biting on this one, sorry warmongies.
      Badner and OUNB fans get jailtime in France, btw, but get praise on a libertarian forum…WOW.

  33. Risto TeinonenNo Gravatar says:

    Who idiot or liar wrote that text:
    “In March 2009, the newspaper Eesti Ekspress reported a link between him and the well-known Finnish neo-nazi Risto Teinonen, both of them being connected to the alleged former KGB agent Vladimir Ilyashevich.”?
    I´m that “neo-nazi” and I have never met or talked or wrote with that “KGB agent” Ilyashevish.
    (I hate writing in this nigger-jewish-language – English)

    Heil Hitler!

    Risto Teinonen

    • Doug NusbaumNo Gravatar says:

      To: Risto:

      It must be awful to be you. You can only openly associate with others who are like you. Manual labourers, welfare moochers, maybe a janitor or two if you are lucky. You were defeated in war by what you call your inferiors. Almost everything you touch and use is tainted by “Jewish Physics”

      You may be familiar with Nasdaq. Do you know which country has the 3rd highest representation on that global stock exchange for technology companies? yea — them

      As to your claims of someone lying. Well given your self description as a form of cow dung, the question becomes would most people believe something like this: http://mundaneman.wordpress.com/category/russia/
      or would they believe a cow fart?

      Getting back to “Jewish Physics” I suggest that you stop using it. That would include cell phones, and computers. And if not, I would like members of this form to weigh in on this suggestion


      In light of the above, I would like to offer the suggestion that Mr. Teinonen be banned from this since he offers nothing positive and merely stinks up the place. But that is what assholes are. Walking sources of stink

  34. UnoSorichellosNo Gravatar says:

    Frankly your piece is too long to answer it point by point and for it to be not a bit of a prolix diatrabe. The overall tone seem to be summable in that Western mantra ‘if only the Russians would meddle less – all EasternEu (Ukraine included) would be a better place’… I used to buy into that pow before I’ve seen Western EU ‘freedom’ which isn’t quite ‘free’ (and ‘fun’ and ‘civilised’ and ‘unhypocritial’) as claimed.

    There is a piece of logic that stipulates about disputes that: what is right is not what I think it is right, but what the ‘stakeholders’ in the argument agree it is right. Who are honestly these sides it is far from clear in your piece and in your mind; the least to say… nor you see any links or bridges to cross!

    I am not going to prove that the high-ground you claim in your piece leaves the other ‘libertarians’ somewhere in the moral sewers – where they are actually not. I will say that moving towards an us and them situation as one can see we are in, makes your ‘moral’ high-ground a heap of words you put yourself on top of, because of such polarisation.

    Form where I stand I look at Putin as less corruptible than the puppet ‘gov’ of Maidan who cannot even elect itself with US help… and about the crunch, I do prefer to see Russian sailors in Sevastopol and not US sailors… I see enough of those in my country to feel uncomfortably under an ‘occupation’ apparently we have ‘stupidly’ asked for.

    Luckily we had a more ‘honest’ revolution than yours and more bloody too but I am not sure how many wouldn’t say we settled for too little ‘freedom’ in a moment when all the world looked like ours – and Maidan seem to have settled for even less! Maybe that is something you cannot really accept… you have ‘slightly’ blew it, so blame the Russians as we all used to do in EastEU.

  35. JCSNo Gravatar says:


    Your recent interview with the Corbett Report raised eyebrows enough, but reading this, I’m just truly shocked.

    I’m very critical of Soviet and now capitalist Russian expansionism, and understand your concerns towards the same issues as a Ukrainian national, but some of your statements are just unbelievable!

    I’m not going to deal with all of them, but just with two or three are so wildly biased, and show what is obviously not a truly scientific approach to understand historical causes, but just a hit piece on Russia.

    That said, I enjoyed following much of the documentation you posted, but find it strange that so much of it was not accessible to any English-only audience (being myself), although the article is only available in English at the moment.

    This is the most wild, sci-fi comment in this whole piece:

    “It is wrong to characterize the protests as ‘violent.’ They remained as peaceful as typical Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street protests even after five protesters were killed and dozens kidnapped. It was mostly people singing songs and resisting attempts to remove them from Kyiv’s central square. No stores were smashed or looted despite this being the most expensive commercial real estate in Ukraine. Alcohol was forbidden among the protesters.”

    Either you’re lying to yourself of lying to us. You’re obviously VERY informed, and I like a lot of your points, so how is it that you NOT reference the violence of the protesters. This is just very suspicious to me coming from a guy who had political lines that I agreed with and has obviously spent as much time (probably more) reading many articles about this situation as I have.

    I know you’ve probably seen this footage, and probably have some way to downplay it, or weasel around it, but I’m going to post some links to Maidan protester violence, just because I was so shocked that you characterized them as “peaceful.”




    And like most people who just have the “Russia-did-all-the-bad-things” line, you seem to ignore the fact that, yes, protesters are also responsible for murder:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-protests-p olice-officer-shot-dead-as-violence-continues-in-kiev-despite-con cessions-9084097.html

    And this article mentions three more police deaths:

    http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/20/world/la-fg-wn-shots-brea k-kiev-truce-20140220

    Of course, the ENTIRE protests couldn’t be characterized as violent, but to say that there was no violence, and it was “mostly people singing songs,” is just kind of crazy. Or else you’re confusing Ukraine with the Baltic states.

    Another point of contention, though you didn’t affirm complete certainty, was citing the BBC report of the opposition-led investigation into the sniping incident as some sort of justification for Yanukovych-Russian complicity.

    Do you really, absolutely think that the opposition would have come to any other conclusion than to blame their political rivals? I just can’t say why anyone would trust in the findings of an unelected government.

    Lastly, there are the many extreme historical biases you quote. One of which is the constant parroting of the term “genocide” as if there were no controversy surrounding the usage of such a term.

    I’ll just refer this text as a good argument that the famine was the result of mismanagement, crop failure, drought, peasant resistance, and not some intentional, nefarious Stalinist plot to eliminate Ukrainians:

    http://www.rationalrevolution.net/special/library/famine.htm/tott lefraud.pdf

    Also, your praise of Nazi collaborators like the Galician SS, as defenders of Ukrainian identity, is sickening. The foreign SS units may not have been officially convicted of war crimes, but certainly were comprised of criminals, and associated with Banderites, such as the OUN, who certainly did commit atrocities.

    And to rehabilitate these criminals for their anti-communist fictions, parties like Svoboda have ignored the atrocities committed against Poles, while people like Yushchenko have awarded criminals like Bandera with national commemorations.

    This whole inverted history is frankly sickening, but I am, however, talking to a libertarian.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ap-a-leader-of-nazi-ss-led-unit-that- massacred-civilians-michael-karkoc-has-been-in-us-since-1949/2/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_ Eastern_Galicia

    http://www.academia.edu/2481420/_The_Return_of_the_Ukrainian_Far_ Right_The_Case_of_VO_Svoboda_in_Ruth_Wodak_and_John_E._Richardson _eds._Analyzing_Fascist_Discourse_European_Fascism_in_Talk_and_Te xt_London_and_New_York_Routledge_2013_228-255

    http://www.rferl.org/content/Yushchenko_Grants_Hero_Status_To_Con troversial_Ukrainian_Nationalist/1937123.html

    • Well, thanks for that long comment. Let me address your points:

      1) The level of violence in the protests.

      The protests started all the way back in November, and consisted of people standing in streets, singing songs, and resisting attempts to remove them. They were on par with Tea Party / OWS protests UNTIL January 16th when all forms of protest were declared illegal.

      I think that’s clear from the context, though I see now I could have made it clearer. I meant UNTIL January 16th.

      The videos you posted as counter-evidence were from after January 16th. I think the restraint until then was amazing. Nothing was looted, ever. And they remained peaceful after protesters were killed on January 5th (6th?) and dozens kidnapped.

      Regarding your video about “armed” protesters, check this out: http://imgur.com/a/ZiVxZ/ Thirteen police were killed, eventually. So I’m not saying the protesters were completely unarmed, but the guns in the video you posted were mostly BB guns. There’s no bolt action mechanism.

      I suspect the officer shot in the story you posted (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-protests- police-officer-shot-dead-as-violence-continues-in-kiev-despite-co ncessions-9084097.html) was indeed killed by protesters. That happened on January 24th.

      Most of the thirteen police casualties happened on February 19-20 when the snipers began their work and the death toll soared to over a hundred. There is a theory that government or Russian snipers killed some police to justify the huge escalation in brutality.

      2) Parroting of the term “genocide” as if there were no controversy surrounding the usage of such a term.

      Raphael Lemkin, the Jewish lawyer who coined the word “genocide” described Holodomor as such. The authorities were exporting grain to Europe while the country side was starving. Please watch this presentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iOMFPxYmlo There is tons of evidence that the resistive Ukrainian peasantry was deliberately targeted.

      3) Also, your praise of Nazi collaborators like the Galician SS, as defenders of Ukrainian identity, is sickening.

      Two points:

      – I’m not praising them, I’m explaining why they get a sympathetic narrative. The basic facts of what I wrote are easily verifiable. They were only to fight the advancing Red Army. They suffered 70-80% KIA in their only major military engagement. They were formed with the idea of eventually becoming the core of a professional Ukrainian Army, as the Sich Riflemen of the defeated Austro-Hungarian Army had done twenty years earlier. I’d also mention that in the two decade prior to WWII, up to 25% of all Ukrainian had been exterminated. I’d be radicalized too if I had lived through that. History is not as black and white as it seems from the safety of the United States.

      – I’m frustrated this conversation is happened, because the people supposedly threatened by the protests, Ukraine’s Jewish community and Russian minority, have been very vocal about not feeling threatened. Both Jews and Russian fought along side the Ukrainians. There are surveys available regarding the feelings of Russians in Ukraine. On the flip side, in Moscow, today’s (May 1st) parade honored Stalin and Beria, who, murdered millions of people from Estonia to Ukraine to Khazakstan to Moscow itself. There’s no comparison.

      http://romaninukraine.com/moscow-may-day-parade-mass-murderers-st alin-and-beria-celebrated/

      Also, the Russians and separatists subverting Ukraine right now have been far more explicit in using Nazi symbols and giving Bellamy salutes: http://romaninukraine.com/russian-nazis-in-ukraine-collection-of- links/

      Let’s also ask ourselves, who is behaving like a bunch of Nazis and fascists?

      No Russian books have been burned. Ukrainian books have been burned. No pro-Russian politician was tortured to death. A pro-Ukrainian politician was tortured to death. No pro-Russian demonstrations have been attacked by Ukrainian thugs with baseball bats. Pro-Ukrainian rallies have been repeatedly attacked by Russian thugs who have even murdered some Ukrainian demonstrators, kidnapped and tortured others.

      • VasoNo Gravatar says:

        Categories right or wrong are applicable to actions, not actors themselves as a whole. The same actor may be right and wrong in his different actions. History is always subjective as Mises explained. So it needs clarification of assumptions.

        Take Alexander Muzychko. The only sources of information about him for me were propaganda outlets. Hence my judgement about him must be fully qualified. First I state my principles – I say that initiation of the use of physical force is evil.
        Then proceed with assumptions and try my best in applying the stated principles.

        If and when he despised government and was violent against its officials, he was right because government initiates the use of physical force by design. If and when he however acted to replace the government with his version of it, he was wrong in those particular actions.
        Now the same approach can be applied to the Galician division during the world war. So far as they resisted the advancing red army which was installing the rule of their criminal master organization, they were right (probably need to add “provided the resources they used were not stolen”; if they had been stolen, then evil against evil, but the degrees of the 2 evils can also be significant).
        When they attacked Poles or Jews who did no harm to others they were evil in their actions and deserved retaliation. I do not know exactly, but suspect that not all of them were responsible for evil actions.

        When it’s stated like above, I think there should be no conflicts with those who accept the basic principle. Different people will have different assumptions (e.g. the number of people robbed by a particular organization, whether certain events took place etc) and proving whose assumptions are more correct is often impossible. But one’s wrong assumptions themselves are errors of knowledge and that’s not a moral charge against him (provided he is willing to correct them). So there should be no accusations of a libertarian opponent actually being fascist.

        This is different however from when “Putin’s libertarians” commend him for his actions because they know that his actions necessarily violate the basic principles. He is acting to impose his rule by force and whatever resources he uses in his actions were stolen from others at gun point. Yes, from the above it follows that the new Ukraine government is also evil in any of its actions, especially when it e.g. sends armed agents to evict somebody from unowned (public) places.

        • I don’t get the moral equivalence. One side is rebelling against a tyrannical government and fighting to get away from corruption. The other is fighting to preserve it.

          • VasoNo Gravatar says:

            I did not mean (and say) they were equivalent. First, in fighting against the government that one side is definitely right. In acting to install another government it is wrong. I don’t think that very high likelihood of new government being installed anyway makes installing it right. Any government is evil by definition, installing it necessarily requires initiation of violence. But I did not say all evil was equal, quite the opposite. There are degrees of it. Fighting to preserve more violent government is more evil than fighting to replace it with less violent government.
            It’s similar to judging whether government is right in paying for somebody’s medical procedures. It’s tempting to consider it as a good thing, but they are using stolen money. Can one be right in disposing of stolen property? I think the only right thing to do with stolen property is stopping to steal, returning it to the owner and paying damages (unless it’s physically impossible).

            • VasoNo Gravatar says:

              There’s also a gray area of crisis ethics where e.g. it is impossible to stay alive and preserve moral perfection. Such as during a war. If you refuse to participate, you will be killed by your compatriots. If you join and kill an innocent like you both the killer and victim cannot be properly right at the same time. And you will have to assume the opponent is evil and shoot first to [have a chance to] stay alive. That is where proper human morality ends, but that state of affairs means fast self-destruction and cannot persist for long by itself. I am not sure the installation of the new government in Ukraine can be considered under that kind of crisis ethics. If it can, it won’t make particular actions right anyway, just outside of proper human ethics.

  36. Pro Not Much..No Gravatar says:

    Of course Russia is playing its hand to the best of its ability. No different to the hand the United States is playing.
    Anyone who see either sides view as less than propaganda is a fool.

    And whether the revolution (not to forget the Orange revolution and its results also) was driven by the people, or by Washington became pretty irrelevant once the Pro Western puppet government was installed, don’t you think?

    What is dreadfully sad and painfully obvious to me, is that NONE of this is about the Ukrainian people.
    It’s about some gas lines and the strategic positioning of military.
    So far as either side is concerned, the people can rot..
    You would think that living there would make you think of that fact a little more than whether Russia is talking shit.
    Ohhh now who’s a shill? Paranoia 101 😉 Kidding..

    • “became pretty irrelevant once the Pro Western puppet government was installed, don’t you think?”

      Not at all. As I keep pointing out, if falling under control of the west means having a standard of living on par with Estonia or the poorest of the Baltics — Latvia, it would be a HUGE improvement for Ukraine.

      I think a lot of libertarians in the west who are accustomed to criticizing the EU and Washington don’t appreciate the corrupting, aggressive, destructive influence of Russian Kleptocracy. It’s poison. They corrupt everything they touch.

      Also, this is 100% about the Ukrainian people, and I think their future will be better because they’ve shown their ability to overthrow a corrupt government. People all over the world, from Moscow to New Hampshire, should find inspiration in their accomplishment.

      • on second thought, at least 75%. 🙂

        • Conspiracy NutNo Gravatar says:

          More like 5%. “We three kings be stealing the gold”. US & NATO do not give two shits about the Uks. How can you believe otherwise!?

          Conflict in Ukraine serves multiple purposes for the powers that should not be. One objective is to get enough gold to appease the Germans who want their gold back. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-06/and-first-thing-ukraine- will-buy-imf-money

          Of course, Ukraine is not enough. US will have to enter a few other gold producing/possessing countries.

          Another objective is to start a war with Russia in order to have an external enemy to blame for the collapse of the petrodollar.

          Meet the new boss, much worse than old boss. Ukie people are going to start to feel a lot of financial pain within the next 6 months.

          Some deity please help the Ukieland!

          • Conspiracy NutNo Gravatar says:

            I must add that a serious financial pinch for Ukies in the next 6 months is the best case scenario. Worst case scenario is Chernobyl meet Fallujah.

  37. Anti-Fascist(?) March in Moscow yesterday:

    in St. Petersburg:
    http://romaninukraine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/MayDay-StPet ersburg.jpg

    Elsewhere in Moscow, honoring mass murderers Stalin and Beria, plus racial slurs against Obama —
    http://romaninukraine.com/moscow-may-day-parade-mass-murderers-st alin-and-beria-celebrated/

  38. Conspiracy NutNo Gravatar says:

    Poor Ukrainian people oppressed by the Russians. Your Ukies pointed out the location of my Jewish relatives with pleasure. They were rounded up at a stadium in Kiev together with many thousands of other Jews and then shot. Ukies were happy that Jews would be killed, plus that Ukies did not have to make your own hands dirty. It was not primarily because Ukies feared for their life. Ukies were eager to get rid of the Jews and don’t you dare tell me that I am wrong. My surviving family members told me stories. Not that Russians particularly like Jews, but do not tell me stories about nice people of oppressed minority that call themselves Uks.

    Of course, what was the first thing that Jews did when they gained freedom? They enslaved Palestinians. Stop playing the victim. Collectively you Ukies are just as dumb and just as barbaric as any other nation. “Proud to be a Ukie” you wrote. May I recommend George Carlin’s skit Proud to be Irish to slap you back into your senses? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OnWnwwxNPA

    Here is a bullshit example of your ethnic pride (from Twitter). “””Roman Skaskiw ‏@Roman_Skaskiw May 3
    #Ukraine’s young men have now faced guns with stones, molotov cockails, and WON!!! in both Kyiv and Odesa. Humbled. Awed. Proud to be Ukie.”””

    Regardless of what went down there and how it started, Uks killed Uks and you are proud to be a Uk. Tears are running down my cheek. Displays of sincere patriotism/nationalism/tribalism make my vagina wet.

    Then you re-tweeted this PR piece:
    “””Retweeted by Roman Skaskiw
    Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR May 5
    Soldier Petro Kovalenko.20 years old.Killed by #Russian sniper near #Sloviansk (May2). Glory to the Hero of #Ukraine! pic.twitter.com/VcGzikOPQR”””
    I have a few questions:
    * How do you know the sniper was Russian? Don’t tell me it was obvious. Sounds like a guess (or wishful thinking to me)
    * Glory to the Hero of Ukraine! Seriously? He was sent to kill his fellow Ukrainians. That’s right, not to hang out and eat barbecue, but to kill those who do not recognize current regime and took up arms. Don’t use the dead kid’s name for propaganda. Poor kid did not want to be shipped there.
    Everything about Maidan fighters and Eastern European fighters is symmetrical. Either both are spontaneous and independent or both are directly funded and controlled by foreign governments. Either way, Maidan Kiev has no moral authority to impose their will on others.
    This re-tweet has your name on it. You chose to re-tweet it. There was no gun to your head and you are over 18, so I can only assume that you support every word of the message.

    I say that you are biased as fuck. Just as you I can cherry-pick and post a lot of videos that incriminate the pro-Maidan movement all day. There is a lot of material. Yes, a lot of it is shown by RT, which is also biased as fuck.

    I am not saying that I am not biased. I am, however, saying that you are very biased. this discredits you for emotions cloud your thinking. You are supposedly an unbiased Ukrainian libertarian insider, but just because you speak Ukrainian, have Polish name and live in Lviv, why should I listen to your *opinion* rather than say half-Chinese, half-Brazilian transgender bartender who lives on the Isle of Man. Should not it all be about the content and not the messenger? Am I utilizing Ad-hominem? Maybe, but I do not have a lot of time to figure out who is who. “Fat man’s diet book” logic.

    Here is my take on things:
    * 99.9999% of all politicians are sociopaths, including -ones that rhyme with “enko”.
    * Things rarely just happen, usually they are carefully planned.
    * “Revolutions” in the Middle East were organized by the US.
    * Reason for US’s military moves in the last 15 years – preserving the status of petrodollar.
    * Petrodollar is a big deal. Without it US will go from so called #1 to #21.
    * BRICS countries are trying to dethrone the petro-dollar. Thus. BRICS has waged a currency war on the US.
    * US & NATO is waging a war back. First it was Syria and now it is Ukraine.
    * One nuclear empire would not butt heads with another nuclear empire so hard unless it was desperate.
    * it is desperate because petrodollar is about to die and US is abut to slide into something that will make the Great Depression look like a bad vacation.
    * US needs to blame someone for that. Terrorism is getting old, this time they need a serious war, like a war with Russia to distract the sheeple.
    * My sources for the conclusions that we are about to have WW3: http://x22report.com/
    * US & Nato is the biggest cancer at the moment. Can’t wait till it collapses. Oh, and consider debt to gdp ration before deciding who is rich and who is poor. Give me a credit card and I will show you a good time.

  39. Conspiracy NutNo Gravatar says:

    Call “Eastern European” a Freudian slip if you wish. I meant “Eastern Ukrainian”.
    Additionally, did Maidan supporters really know what they were fighting for? How many of them read the packages offered by the EU and by Putin? The EU package does not offer what people believe it does. It does not imply open borders with EU & work wherever you want. EU does not want to absorb another poor indebted country into its ranks. There are only so many mouths that Germany can feed.

    So, they have either been fooled all by themselves or they have been fooled by others.

    On Maidan snipers, here is information that is not merely based on a leaked phone call:

    • After late night police raid and kidnapping on Nov 28, and even more so after January 16th when “the Yanukovych government, without following legislative procedure, passed legislation nearly identical to a Russian law which criminalized virtually every form of protest,” the protests were no longer about joining the EU (which I’m against). They were about overthrowing a hideously corrupt and brutal Russian puppet government.

      Those videos are ridiculous — “Nazi, NATO trained, Jesuit backed soldiers.”

      • Conspiracy NutNo Gravatar says:

        “Ridiculous” is an adjective, not an argument. One of the videos shows geographical locations, bullet trajectories, maps. “Ridiculous” is not the same level of argument as “bad physics” or “wrong geography”. Argue from those angles and I will listen. Another video shows a sniper bullet and compares that bullet to the Russian and American variants. “It was planted” or “it deformed after it hit the target” would be much better arguments than “ridiculous”. I find it very easy to believe that US & NATO want to crush Russia and they will use whatever methods they can. Dig deep into what Operation Gladio was all about. Nato had decades of experience.

        Your appetite and tolerance for the level of conspiracy theories is apparently different from mine. As Corbett pointed out, every detective is a conspiracy theorist.

        I believe that most major conflicts in the last several decades were planned by the powers that should not be, that there was a ton of propaganda, that mainstream media is directly controlled by CIA and foreign equivalent, that their broadcast licenses are in danger to be revoked if they talk too much. I believe that 911 happened in cooperation with the US govt as well as some people from Israel (note that I am partly a Jew). I believe that Rothschild family controls more than 1 Trillion dollars USD and has enough resources to create a civil war. I believe that Georgia-Russian conflict was a direct result of Nato involvement. Things did not just happened. I believe that Saddam Hussein & Gadaffi were removed because they threatened the petrodollar. Assad is next. He too wanted to dump the dollar. Their is a study done by MIT engineers which shows that it was physically impossible for the government to deliver those rockets where they hit because their range was limited to only up to 2 kms and Assad’s forces were nowhere that close to the impact locations. I believe that Ukraine is Syria 2.0 – US & Nato feel like they absolutely have to pin Russia to a wall.

        When I say “believe”, I mean I have studied a lot of material supporting my views but it has taken probably more than 100 hours of video, so I can’t possibly list all of my sources here. I am not hiding anything, just trying to be pragmatic. I also do not know what you do and do not believe in, so I will not try to preach to the converted.

        I also do not have high hopes for you (and yes this is a form of personal attack, but whatever, I do not have a phd in debating and not looking to get one). What I know about you is that you voluntarily chose to be Dick Cheney’s bitch. You were not forced to through conscription and your family was not that of fresh immigrants living on under 1 dollar per day and there were no jobs around such that it was either join the military or die of starvation.

        For whatever reason you were dumb enough to join a US military. Many people did not go that route and not because they were not physically fit, but because they had enough brains even at 18 y.o. to know better. I do not know whether you were seeking recognition, comradeship, scholarship or a lot of pussy, but you went with the program and even served more than one tour from what I gathered.

        I do not expect a whole lot of independent and contrarian thinking from someone with this sort of biography. While being a libertarian is not as mainstream as being a liberal, you are still part of a pretty big club, both as someone who identifies as a libertarian/anacap or whatever you are and as a Ukrainian. Always seeking to join some club, always looking around and following whatever the cool kids are doing, even if blessed with a few brain cells – enough to discard activities that are obviously retarded.

        With the personal attack out of the way, let’s return to the sniper theory. Here is a thing (as one video pointed out) – sniper fire is a terrible way to stop a large crowd (because you cannot hear them, there are few of them, and you as a crowd cannot tell that you are under attack). However, sniper fire is a great way to agitate a crowd the next day, when the bodies of victims are photographed and spread around news outlets and the internet.

        That would be a very dumb thing for Yanukovich to do, just as it would be retarded for Assad to explode some chemical weapons right in the same place where the inspectors were visiting and right at the same time as they decided to show up (all the while Assad was already winning). I cannot say that Yanukovich was winning, but Yanukovich and Putin needed sniper fire as much as a hole in their own head.

        Now onto your fantasy of getting rid of an external enemy. If only these Russians and their puppets disappeared … you know what would happen? The number of parties that would like to rape Ukraine would decrease from three down to two. The players are: 1) Yanukovich backed by Putin, 2) EU/IMF/Nato, 3) local olygrachs.

        You think the gas princess gives two shits about the people of Ukraine? She does only to the extent that she can stay in power. Ukraine would not be the first country to be raped by IMF. Whatever happened to Yushenko’s reelection anyway? Rhetorical question. The only option that the Uk people had was to be raped by candidate A or to be raped by a candidate B.

        Фальсифікаціям – ні!
        Махінаціям – ні!
        Понятіям – ні!
        Ні брехні!
        Ющенко – так!
        Ющенко – так!
        Це – наш президент.
        Так! Так!

        Yeah yeah whatever. I do not “blame” the general Uk population for going with this. After all, they are just as dumb/smart as a population of any other large country. You, however, used the phrase “hideously corrupt and brutal Russian puppet government”. Do you really believe that having another ruler would be better. Do you really think that Yats will be that different (adjusting for the potential loss of SouthEastern territories)?

        I do not think so. As much as you would hate to admit it, there is a lot of similarity between Russians and the Uks. They share similar culture. After decades under soviet union both Uks and Russians are:
        – Prone to heavy drinking. Tomorrow may never come so might as well experience some fun now.
        – Steal a lot. It is next to impossible to operate a business because first instinct of almost everybody is – let’s dismantle this machinery and take it to the pawn shop.

        If you get rid of the Russians, Uks will still remain.

        A couple of things to think about:
        – what if snipers weren’t Yanukovich’s? Would Maidan still be worth it?
        – Who is the alternative to Yan-ch? Are they that much better?
        – Is the difference between Yanukovich and a better alternative such that it compensate the cost of destruction, loss of land and higher gas prices?
        – What are the terms of IMF bailout exactly? How does Ukraine plan to make it through the winter while paying the market price for the gas?

        In hindsight, in my opinion Maidan protests caused more damage to every Uk than the cost of not participating would be. I live far away from there, so this is a guess/opinion.

        What I am quite confident about is that while many Uks may believe that they are heading for the better future, this conflict is not about them. It is a geo-political battle between a bigger gang (US & Nato) and a smaller gang (Russia).

        While “Putin’s libertarians” are wrong about many details, I feel like you are missing the forest for the trees.

  40. Conspiracy NutNo Gravatar says:

    Here is a further reason to take Roman Skaskiw with a grain of salt, to say the least. On his twitter account https://twitter.com/Roman_Skaskiw he re-tweeted:

    Retweeted by Roman Skaskiw
    Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR 3h

    Rodion Dobrodomov. 29-year old #Automaidan activist. Killed in #Mariupol.Glory to Hero! https://www.facebook.com/euromaidanpr/posts/258556754328134 … |EMPR pic.twitter.com/UGvTneorUv
    View photo


    Hero of Ukraine?!?!? Have you not watched videos of what exactly happened?

    While I do not know what exactly happened in Odessa and who provoked whom (and I get the frustration if the Russian media is distorting facts about it, if that is indeed what happened), but it is pretty clear that what happened in Mariupol was simply massacre, a punitive action for refusal of police to recognize authorities in Kiev.

    It is a bad thing that Rodion Dobrodomov died. However, he volunteered to go on a mission to kill his fellow citizens who simply refused an order. Unlike him, some 200 Ukrainian soldiers that ran away from a base made a different choice. They will be punished for refusing to participate in a civil war, to go against the will of citizens who do not recognize Kiev’s rule.

    In my book, Roman is not a valuable thinker. He is prone to bias and is affected by Kiev’s brainwashing. Not that it is not unexpected of him, but when it comes to discerning the truth, I would double-check his every claim for myself. I find “Putin’s libertarians” a more reliable source of news and information.

    • Civilian protesters do not shoot down helicopters, kidnap journalists, and torture people who disagree with them. Here is Putin articulating his strategy of using civilians (pseudo-civilians) as human shields:


      This is consistent with intercepted instructions to Russian special forces operating in E Ukraine:

      http://romaninukraine.com/instructions-for-separatists-in-eastern -ukraine-intercepted-use-women-as-a-voluntary-shield/

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Quote: Civilian protesters do not shoot down helicopters, kidnap journalists, and torture people who disagree with them.

        I fail to see the difference between what the East Uks and the West Uks are doing. YOU ARE BOTH UGLY.

        Here is your kidnapping and intimidation from awhile back:

        Here is how the West treats journalists:

        • I’m not really comparing W to E Ukrainians, but Ukrainians to separatists.

          If you claim the latter two to be similar, that’s a false equivalence, but I think I made this point already. There is no campaign of kidnapping, murder, threats and torture toward Russians or Russian speakers, despite the shrill cries of “Ethnic Cleansing” from the Kremlin (and the Ron Paul Institute for Peace). On the other hand, the separatists, and the Russian occupiers of Crimea have engaged in all these things.

          The best you can do to try to convince people that the equivalence exists is extrapolate from a single picture or single quote. But the equivalence doesn’t exist. I live in Lviv. There’s a Russian street musician playing the city center every day. And yet my friends who have family in Russia say their relatives call asking whether Russians get murdered in the streets here.

          The lies of the Russian media (and the RPIP) have been completely over the top. They’ve published footage from Iraq, Syria, China, Bosnia, and from their own massacres in Chechnya and Georgia to try to convince the world that Ukrainians are committing war crimes.

          Check out these 80 examples: http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-80-lies-about-ukraine

          Thankfully, it seems that few people are fooled. There are Russian feeling INTO Ukraine because there is greater freedom here, especially freedom of expression.

  41. Conspiracy NutNo Gravatar says:

    First of all, you have not addressed many of my points. You may skip the parts clearly labeled as ad-hominem (or reply to them if you wish). An intelligent reader will not want to concentrate on my subjective opinions too much.

    Secondly, national guard has killed most of police who disagreed with them. Was it ok for them to do because they were not civilians? What is the magic distinction between military and civilians anyway? 1500 Ukrainian soldiers just refused an order to fight in Donetsk. They were conscripted but they would rather remain as civilians. I expect Kiev’s punitive action against them soon as well. The actual will of the people does not matter when billions of IMF dollars are on the line.

    Anyhow, one of the people who was killing those who disagree with them was Rodionov. You called him a “hero of Ukraine”. Is your brain fried? You see, I have not publicly re-tweeted obvious propoganda (let’s say pro-Russian propaganda) but you have re-tweeted PR messages designed with the help of an American team.

    About civilians shooting down helicopters … most males in Ukraine have undergone mandatory military training. Many surface to air missiles are just as easy to point and shoot as using a point and shoot camera. Are civilians no longer civilians if they use weapons? Should not the same be true about Maidan? By this logic Maidan was a military take-over of Ukraine and “Junta” is an appropriate name. Otherwise, if an armed civilian is still a civilian, then you get *contrary to your claim* some civilians shooting down a helicopter (a military helicopter sent to be used against them). If you are a firm believer in turning the other cheek when punched, I would like to test the strength of your faith by appropriating your laptop and your car. Surely you will voluntarily gift me your house as well.

    On “Human Shields” – I do not yet have a response on the first link you provided; have not had the time to study it, the statements made and what it was all about.

    The second link is just a link to your own blog, which then points elsewhere, but as I follow turtles all the way down, I find … no substantiated claim, no proof. Only a claim by euromaidanpr, which has frequently made claims that were rebutted and they did not bother to rebut the rebuttal, or could not come up with anything convincing.

    Suppose for a moment that Human Shields are being used in Eastern Ukraine (and I am not granting you that automatically). What about guys with guns who end up shooting at the human shields? Do they get to enjoy a higher moral ground? Do they deserve to be labeled as heroes and are entitled to two acres of land in heaven with ocean view?

    Bystanders got hurt in Mariupol. They volunteered to be shields. Same is true in Slavyansk. E.Uk people overwhelmingly did not want to see Kiev’s military on their territory. They tried to block the passage of armored carriers with their bodies (plenty of video evidence).

    After all this you agree with @euromaidanpr that West Ukies who fought against East Ukies are heroes? “Biased as fuck” is no longer a strong enough statement. As somewhat of a public figure, someone who can influence others you are simply dangerous. Hence I am on a mission to point out the bias.

    What about me (Consp Nut)? Am I biased? This is irrelevant. I am pointing out serious logical flaws in your thinking which undermine your credibility. I would like to read a balanced “Putin’s Libertarians” article that would challenge what I know and force me to do more research. You have not convinced me.

    I have read plenty of masked “hollier than thou” debates betweens Israelies and Palestinians in a college newspaper. It taught me that most people do not always remain rational and that history is … just a bunch of opinions.

    Reading ugly on-line exchanges between “colorado beetles” and “pork eaters” made me think of the Israeli-Palestinian PR battles. While you are way above teenager insults that I have seen so many of, you still come across as a malleable pawn in a big geopolitical chess game where frankly the king of your own color cares just as little about you as the king on the other side.

  42. KevinNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t understand why this article isn’t on LewRockwell.com. This is full of information that I am not seeing anywhere else. I even heard Yuri Maltsev on the Tom Woods Show a few weeks ago, and Tom mentioned wanting to have Yuri on again to talk about Ukraine. I hope that happens. I don’t understand why there is such one-sidedness when there is information such as this available.

    Why are people like Pat Buchanan and Paul Craig Roberts, who I do agree with on some issues I admit, but who are NOT libertarians getting almost daily articles posted on LRC about Ukraine when there are other commentators with indisputable libertarian credentials such as the author of this article or Yuri Maltsev who aren’t getting any coverage at all?

    I find this troubling.

    • I hear you, Kevin. I did have this article and other criticism sent to LRC through a personal contact that knows him well. There’s something strange happening in the libertarian media. As unlikely as it might initially seem that parts of the libertarian media are influenced by the Kremlin, I know of no other explanation.

      Today, LRC posted this ridiculous nonsense: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/05/stephen-lendman/the-empire-won  /

      • Seth KingNo Gravatar says:

        It seems to me that the larger the movement gets the less “pure” it becomes. I don’t know if there is any way to stop that. That seems to be the general rule for all movements.

        • Conspiracy NutNo Gravatar says:

          Libertarianism is still statism. It is still based on force. There is nothing pure about it. David D Friedman is worth listening to, most others are just not as smart.

  43. The DudeNo Gravatar says:

    Here is an excellent lesson on geopolitics of Ukraine and its neighbors. Ignore it at the risk of being uninformed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6jHhzj08yQ

    Like Russians or not, here is another excellent lesson on understanding the Russian Mindset. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6rSljTwdU

    Caspian Report is as unbiased as it gets, presented by someone who does not speak Russian nor can pronounce Russian names very well. Shirvan is both smart and handsome.

  44. The DudeNo Gravatar says:

    So … given the lack of mountains to slow down the invaders and the encirclement by Nato, you find Putin’s strategy irrational?

    • Extremely, unbelievably stupid. Putin needed to be a statesman, and instead reverted to the habits of a KGB apparatchik. To paraphrase a friend of mine:

      It would have been cheaper to buy Crimea for discounts on gas. He had the western right eating out of his hand. He could have run the western conservative / libertarian political scene in a generation. He could have facilitated the US military’s withdrawal from Europe. Hell, he might have even purchased Eastern Ukraine, though it would have been difficult.

      Instead he decides to expand his border eastward by a few hundred kilometers. The only plus for him is that growing domestic political resistance and flagging support has completely ended. Russians now love him. But what has he lost?

      His former allies, Ukrainians, like Georgians, will now hate everything Russian for at least three generations, probably longer. The western military stance against him is re-invigorated. Capital is fleeing like crazy (which isn’t bad for him, b/c he’s the owner of the world’s biggest gas station, but it’s very bad for Russians.)

      And you know else? He discovered through last month’s gas negotiations that Chinese don’t give a shit about him, or Russia, or Alexander Dugin’s idiotic “Eurasian Union.” The Chinese are perfectly content spending the next several thousand years turning siberia into China.

      This is a very steep price to pay for a boost in domestic support and a little bit of Ukrainian soil — as if land was the one thing Russia needed more of.

      F@cking Idiot.

      He should have focused on improving life for Russia’s core population, fighting corruption which is at intolerable levels, and being Europe’s conservative / military wing.

      but KGB does what KGB knows…

      I like Russians. A lot, actually — the sarcasm, machismo, dark humor, intelligence. But holy shit, don’t let these people anywhere near political power. Century after century, they make the worst decisions. Instead of minding their own problems they drag surrounding nations into their morass of corruption and brutality. I can’t think of another country so unanimously despised by its neighbors.

  45. The DudeNo Gravatar says:

    Out of order:

    Well, most neighbors hate their neighbors … because the fought wars.
    Putin had a good lease agreement on Crimea’s bases. Russian naval interests were satisfied … that is until Nuland, McCain, Kerry & co showed up.

    He could have facilitated the US military’s withdrawal from Europe? Have you not seen what Nato has done since 1989? Have you not seen Wolfowitz doctrine – project for the New American Century? Do you think the architects of this would just stop? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_ change_actions#Iran_2005.E2.80.93present

    “Instead he decides to expand his border eastward by a few hundred kilometers.” I do not think he started it. Georgia’s was emboldened by Nato and so was Ukraine. He said he did not start the fire. I believe him. He was projecting influence, sometime rather aggressively, but I do not think he is after a land grab. US on the other hand – WTF is it doing in Ukraine? I do not really see Putin in Cuba even though US-Cuba relations are retarded.

    Of course Chinese do not give a shit about him. That would be irrational. A rational player always looks out for #1 first. What was wrong with China Russia deal? Just a price negotiation from what I gather. No dollars to be used in this trade – a huge blow to US, eh?

    Putin does not care about Georgians and Ukrainians feelings. That is not part of the game. They are already in Nato or flirting with it. What did he have to lose?

    “This is a very steep price to pay for a boost in domestic support and a little bit of Ukrainian soil — as if land was the one thing Russia needed more of.” Russia desperately needs secure warm ocean sea access, secure buffer zones. I do not think he needs more Ukrainian land, only for Ukraine to be a secure and loyal buffer zone.

    “F@cking Idiot.”

    I can understand why you have emotions, but Putin is no idiot no matter how much as you hate him. He checkmated Obama once before. He knows his game.

    And as for hating neighbors – former Yugoslavia takes the cake. At least Russians and Ukrainians are slightly different from one another. Some of those countries are the same people.

    “don’t let these people anywhere near political power. Century after century, they make the worst decisions. Instead of minding their own problems they drag surrounding nations into their morass of corruption and brutality.”
    This applies universally to any country with a lot of power.

    “Capital is fleeing like crazy (which isn’t bad for him, b/c he’s the owner of the world’s biggest gas station, but it’s very bad for Russians.)” – hated markets rebound. He is creating a sort of tax heaven in Russia by telling FU to America tax collectors asking who has how much in which account. I do not think that Russia is hurting that much comparing to one year ago.

    It is true that Russian bureaucracy is a big drag and he is stiffing entrepreneurs.

    Will have to see what changes after US becomes merely a regional player.

    • You exaggerate America’s role. Ukrainians successfully threw of a corrupt brutal dictator. It was a grass roots movements. I’ll refer you to an article called “Putin’s Libertarians” as evidence.

      What little help they received from the west (and it was little) the majority of people wanted and begged for.

      I think Putin is more afraid of the example of popular revolutions against corrupt governments than of NATO. This is why he is hiring Chechen mercenaries and former Ponzi Scheme specialists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Pushilin) to create havoc in Eastern Ukraine.

      He will fail. And yes, he’s an idiot. The level of corruption he allows is intolerable. Trying to spread it to his neighbors makes Russia unique in the extent to which his neighbors hate him. There’s no other country so reviled by its neighbors.

  46. The DudeNo Gravatar says:

    The “let’s replace an oligarch ruler with a better oligarch ruler” has been tried in Ukraine before. Let’s see how Poroshenko plays out. I do hope for the best.

    As for America’s role and Putin’s intelligence – we’ll probably see something interesting happen by the end of 2014. Interesting factors to look for are: the price of gold, the value of the dollar, how much S&P500 drops, a “terrorism” event (or several) on the American soil, a subsequent blame of and invasion of Syria / Iran / some place in Africa, finger pointing at Russia/China, food riots and chaos in Southern California, New York, Detroit and other metropolitan areas, and Martial Law & crackdown on protesters enacted as the result.

    • > “let’s replace an oligarch ruler with a better oligarch ruler”

      You don’t know how it felt. I lived it. The feeling of empowerment people have right now is amazing. They’re no longer scared of the government. It’s beautiful.

      Something big changed in the Ukrainian psyche. It has to do with the willingness to stand up for yourself, to sacrifice, to risk your life, to overthrow tyrants.

      No, they’re not getting economics quite right. So some of it is painful to watch, but I can’t imagine a scenario in which life isn’t going to be improving here. 🙂

      I want libertarians elsewhere to learn from the Ukrainian experience. They overthrew a fucking government, armed mostly with axe handles, molotov cocktails, and motorcycle helmets.

      Yes, I agree. Let’s see how it plays out. They’re not going to get economics right, but something is very different now. It’s like Soviet demons have been exorcised forever. And the people who’ve been scared silent for 80 years are no longer scared. The genie is out of the bottle.

    • Doug NusbaumNo Gravatar says:

      To the dude: The fearmonger strikes again. Spewing stuff that he really does not believe. At least not enough to make a wager.
      Price of gold: Under $1500 Value of dollar. Against what? S&P500, at least as high as it is now.

      Terrorism event? What TF does that mean. Some Whacko killed two cops in a pizza restaurant today. Is that a terrorism event? By what standards?

      Food riots NO!!
      Marshall law NO!!

      dpaladin at ix dot netcom dot com

      And I will wager, after terms are settled, at least $200 on each event, $2000 total.

      But “THE DUDE” is a blathering fearmonger and will not put up any money

      • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

        Doug, call me a coward if you wish. I am not exposing my identity to you (and hence others) for free, for there is no cheap enforceable contract that we can create and the extra $200 or $2000 is not going to to make a difference for me. I choose not to take a deal and I do not care what you think. “You are not man enough” does not work on me. Thanks for the kind offer though.

        Either way, I will clarify my predictions and we can chat here again in a few months. No chest thumping, no money exchange, just chat. Turning you into a skeptic will be priceless for me.

        Price of gold: 1500 would already be a 20% change from the current 1250. I see gold at 2000 USD/oz or higher by the end of 2015.

        Value of the dollar – against gold, Swiss Frank, Chinese Yuan.

        S&P500 will drop by at least 20%. Before it bottoms out, it will have dropped to under 1000 (unless the ensuing inflation carries it up).

        Terrorism event – a significant enough event to distract the public from the fuck ups by the US govt. It will have to be blamed on international entities. It will be much bigger than the Boston bombings, more like another 911 in terms of societal impact.

        Marshall law has already happened in Boston and people were fine with it. This time it will be bigger.
        Food riots are harder to imagine at the moment.

        I can share my reasons for predictions if you care. If you do not, then please do not waste my time.

        • Doug NusbaumNo Gravatar says:

          S&P500 will drop by at least 20%. Before it bottoms out, it will have dropped to under 1000 (unless the ensuing inflation carries it up).

          Is that before or after Jesus returns. With no time frame the prediction is kind of devoid of meaning since I am sure that some time in the future the s&p will drop 20% (kind of a regular occurrence), and it was only 5 years ago that it dropped about 50%. No time frame means no prediction — just words.

          Some whack job killed two police officers here in Vegas, and there were a couple of other shootings at colleges. Called domestic terrorism. Public “destracted” Why your prediction is 1. has already come to pass or 2., is devoid of meaning. I am inclined to go with the later.

          for there is no cheap enforceable contract that we can create

          Well, there is the publicity of shaming 🙂 If money does not matter, what about your reputation?

          I have little doubt that in the next few years that there will be local marshal law somewhere in this country (restricted to a city and surrounding area) and that it will last less then two weeks. That often happens in times of serious disturbances, like natural disasters. People tend to prefer it to looting 🙂

          So basically, you have a single testable time limited prediction. You are either unaware of what exactly a testable prediction is, or are just a blowhard selling fear. Not for money, but to see if you can excite the foolish chicken littles that seem to populate these sites.

          And I accept $200.00 that gold is NOT above 2000 at the end of 2015. (spiking above and then going back down means that I wind)

          We already had an agreement on gold. Lets go with the swiss franc and use this
          http://www.barchart.com/chart.php?sym=S6M14&t=BAR&size=M&v=2&g=1& p=MN&d=X&qb=1&style=technical&template=
          same terms as gold, so below 1.300 by the end of 2015

          I am sure that the moderator of this site can handle the transfer of funds 🙂

          As to your revealing your secrete identity. I am fairly certain that my associates at the NSA will have no problem finding it if they want. I mean, seriously, just how secure do you think that this site is?

          I am sure that you will come up with some excuse. You already are demonstrating your worminess since your original statement was

          As for America’s role and Putin’s intelligence – we’ll probably see something interesting happen by the end of 2014.

          Now you are extending that time by — what almost 200%? That is OK,. You will still loose 🙂

          • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

            Reputation of the handle “The Dude”? Ha! I do not care to win, only to share what I know. I made a few seemingly outlandish claims that you do not buy. I offered to provide my reasoning. You just want to win. I care not. This site looks like it was built by a 14 year old. I am using throw away credentials here. The increased reporting of shootings is part of a scheme to disarm America. Violence keeps on going down but the coverage goes up. I am familiar with testable prediction, I just do not care to win or impress you. Carefully stating my predictions is not worth my time. Human language is never precise enough, particularly for things like false flag events. Legally kosher contracts can take dozens of pages to describe. Mot interested. Not interested. Not interested. I cannot describe to you exactly what will happen. I do not know that. What I can tell you qualitatively is that America is going to shit in the very near future.

            I can explain my reasoning, only if you sincerely care, otherwise not worth my time. I would love to un-zombiefy you – that would be my reward.

            Fake reputation of a fake handle is irrelevant. I will be back in a few months or weeks to say “Doug, I told you so. Now please join the ranks of tinfoil-ers who turned out being right”.

            • Doug NusbaumNo Gravatar says:

              Well. I have got to admit that now I actually care. I really do want to see the reasoning behind your statements. I was born curious. And if you can accurately predict the future, then there is money to be made. You may be rich enough to not care, but I am not.

              • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

                Doug, sorry I got a little busy in the real world. The weather is nice this weekend so I must relax. I will post some of my own summary later and I would like to hear your criticism for I will be sending the same basic message to many different people.

                If you feel like doing the homework, I would recommend most of the videos on the youtube channel by Greg Hunter. Check out who he is and the people that he has on his show. https://www.youtube.com/user/usawatchdog They know their stuff and have a ton of experience.

                What they say is in contradiction to the established Keynesian school of though, it goes against what is being taught at Chicago and London, but hey facts are facts.

                At some point humans used lobotomy, gay castration, female circumcision, communism to try to achieve some supposedly positive goal. Keynesian economics is up there as well and we are at the point where the steam in the system is running out within months or maybe one year if it lasts.

                • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

                  Doug, here is an interesting piece of info: by now some entity in Belgium bought about 80% worth of Belgium’s GDP in US treasuries. Obviously this is covert, over the top QE, trying to match the selling of the US treasuries by Russia, China and a whole lot of other countries. Lots of countries are buying gold like crazy. The dollar is dying. 4 billion in tarp money has been stolen and there is no way to fix it. If you want to protect yourself financially, buy physical silver – it is more undervalued than gold. Do not buy paper metals; get it incognito at your local coin shop. Get standard size coins.

                  Before buying metals though, make sure that you and your family have enough food, water and medical supplies to sit out through a couple months of outages.

                  That, and for the love of god – do a lot of homework yourself.

                  P.S. GDP is shit, numbers are fake. Unemployment is shit, #s are fake. Retail is doing poorly. Lots of chain stores (and small ones) are closing all over the country. Banks are laying people off in mortgage departments. Demand for new home construction is dropping. FED is indirectly holding a lot of toxic assets. Student debt is out of control. Banks are letting people live in homes for free rather than foreclose. A significant portion of housing has been paid off 100% – those are foreign investors and local hedge funds. Americans aren’t buying homes as much – they cannot afford to. The plunge protection team is keeping the stock market disconnected from reality. And that’s the reality, brother.

                • Doug NusbaumNo Gravatar says:

                  with regard to keynsian thought. For me economics is not a dismal science, it is not a science. It is a religion. To quote Pauli, “It is not even wrong”. Except perhaps in the most simple of cases, and then it is more often wrong than right 🙂

                  Regarding U-tube. I was hoping for links or other written material. I have a neurological situation that causes me to absorb and process information much better in written form than having someone talk to/at me.

                  • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

                    Well, some basic ideas in economics such as supply/demand curves, economies of scales, needing higher return for higher risk, and so on do make sense. Keynesian try to build an elaborate theory that has not been verified in reality. Some claim that WW2 has saved the US from great depression, but how in the world can a negative sum game that is war save an economy. The truth is that progress happens over time despite parasitic governments sucking out a fraction of the wealth.

                    Austrian school economists are sticking to the null hypothesis – leave the system alone and it will flourish, and by now they have plenty of historical data to back up their claims.

                    If you prefer to read, then check this short post out – UN is posting jobs for disarmament officers in New York. Disarmament happens before authoritarian rule is installed. This is fucking serious shit! http://www.simplyhired.com/job/disarmament-demobilization-and-rei ntegration-job/company-unknown/njjsu6xcpz?cid=pehbmpbtydklmatzcqa nroircmrdlouw

                    Now, I have been predicting the US going after the Russia/China/Iraq/Syria gang through a false flag terrorism event. The terrorism event is yet to happen, but for the purposes of disarming and controlling the domestic folk.

                    The way the US military will enter Syria and topple the popular Al Assad will be by chasing ISIS (the group they armed and funded) by following them from Iraq all the way into Syria.

                    A lot of bad things will happen to America this summer. Once taking credit for beating fascists, it will very soon become one.

                    As far as the other post and my “subtle reasoning” – please define subtle. I do not know what you meant by that. I have no idea what your background is. Former training in economics is obviously not necessary (and can be counter-productive), but some familiarity with language and concepts helps. Either way, I will reply to that other post and will try to elaborate on what implication my statements have. At the high level I was trying to say – look factoid A, B, C, … N means it is bad for the US economy, therefore in the free market the US stock market (and it is connected to other markets) should have gone down. However it did not. It keeps on going up. It must have been artificially propped up (for a while), and when it finally goes down, it will go pear-shaped.

                    • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

                      More on UN disarmament.

                      http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/item/19486-merry-christm as-united-nations-declares-arms-trade-treaty-to-go-into-effect-de c-24

                      Also, are you still sure that America is not going to get stuck in the Middle East? The number of barefoot military “advisers” (pun: no boots on the ground) is already totaling thousands.

                      Price of Silver … market price hints that nobody wants it and yet the mints are selling out the eagles like there is no tomorrow. I say manipulation. The mining costs per oz are way above $16. I still say silver will be over $50/troy oz by the end of 2015 though my previous prediction timing is admittedly off.

                      Wanna hear my solid investment advice – learn about physical silver and buy a lot of it. NOW. Shorts and derivatives will get you slaughtered. Paper trading – forget about it! Own something tangible, not just an electronic entry somewhere.

                  • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

                    Ok, Doug, I found your … let’s just say very fast to load web site. I used to use my real identity to discuss stuff and politics online, but then discovered strong reasons not to do so.

                    Sounds like you are no stranger to the daily anarchist and have enough grasp on economics. I am still not sure what you meant by “very subtle reasoning”. Please help me understand.

                    I sometimes reply to the wrong thread because I am trying to keep tabulation at a sane level.

                    • Doug NusbaumNo Gravatar says:

                      ddr post. My reaction is that while you may be able to read, you seem to lack the ability to accurately interpret what you read. You have no evidence that the DDR position was for any work in the US. Did it ever occur to you that since the UN has its HQ in NY, and that NY has a lot of multi lingual people who are also sort of smart, that they might post an ad for someone to work out of NY? Or do you think that someone working for the UN would live in, say, Kingman AZ?

                      As for your subtle reasoning… I was being snarky. I saw no reasoning. Your comments on economics were mostly the obvious. Of course, since almost all economic theory is based on two falacies, anything beyond the really obvious like scarcity drives up prices in a free market is likely to be false. Two premises that have been shown to be seriously flawed are
                      1. Humans are rational economic animals
                      2. — a subset of 1 really — we are not driven by our hormones. In particular, in large systems testosterone poisoning seriously screws up everything.
                      do a search on these words: profitability percent of women management

                      Since men wrote almost all economics, it is logical that they would miss the fact that their brains do not work well. Sort of like expecting a fish to be aware of water.

                      and you continue to — well bloviate
                      A lot of bad things will happen to America this summer. Once taking credit for beating fascists, it will very soon become one.

                      Which ranks close to “jesus will return” ie not even wrong. You did not specify what you mean by a “bad thing”. Yes a meteor hitting disneyland would be bad, at least for the people there. But other than that you said nothing.

                      I predict that when obama leaves office that there will be less than 2000 soldiers officially on the ground in the near east in combat. Less than 50 will have died.

                      I am beginning to think that the only two people in this country that have read “the art of war” are Obama and ME. At least we are the only ones who understood this item: The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

                      See… Now those are measurable predictions. Wanna bet on them?

                      finally on proof. I look at anyone who uses the word proof when describing an affirmative in the physical world as someone who is ignorant and not worht reading. As Stephen Hawking said, in the physical world there are not true theorems, only useful ones. If there is not truth then how can someone “prove” something, other than in the older sense of test.

                      At best you have falsifiable theories that you can put forth. Of course, if these self proclaimed pronuncers of proofs were any good, then they would be making a killing in the markets and would be independently wealthy, rather than selling fear on the internet.

                    • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

                      Ok, Doug. I am replying to your most recent comment. This site has an indentation limit, it seems, so this comment will appear elsewhere.
                      While your comment about ddr is worth for me to investigate, the rest is not.
                      Economic arguments do not have to be hard and only available to the Mensa members; they just have to be correct.

                      Economics being written by men … hahaha, most of math and physics and software is written by men. I should stop using a computer because … testosterone hahaha. Why did you quote a male physicist? Is his testosterone level sufficiently low ? Taleb talked about testosterone much better than what I Google-ed and in a broader context.

                      I am just not going to bother replying (for now). I will reply later, when it does happen. You know it all and cannot be told something, unless you already know it.

                      This is another quote that made me laugh “I am beginning to think that the only two people in this country that have read “the art of war” are Obama and ME.” Before I read this I thought I would spend some of my time on an elaborate write-up, but now – no.

                      Sorry, no more sharing of info. Your snarky/condescending writing is not worth my time.

                      I will just wait. I will post again later when stuff does happen. Not interested in betting. I wanted to dezombiefy you and it did not work. Oh well.

                  • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

                    Hey Doug, so Netherlands has already had its own 911, and it was a false flag attack. The US has supposedly had absolute proof that Russia did it, but then Russia has turned up its radar & other data, asking US to share what they had. US waited a few days, and then produced something slightly better than a penis drawn by a 10 year old child in Microsoft Paint. An old map in low res, conclusions wo sources to back it up is what they had, even though their satellites can read a license plate number.

                    So, MH17-like event is what I meant by a false flag event – something that makes people angry and makes them want to go to war, like 10% of Americans did over the downed plane, supposedly by Russia itself.

                    Let’s see what happens in Norway. Terrorists from Syria are supposedly heading there (how convenient for NATO hawks who want to topple Assad). It is a bogus claim, so let’s see if NATO does end up applying their Gladio & Gladio B experience in Norway.

                    The false flag event in the US will be magnificent. It will have to be big enough to explain to the overwhelming majority of America that the reason for the financial system collapsing was the outside force. It will involve many dead Americans and hundreds wounded as well as cyber attacks and attacks on the power grid.

                    Large banks will be temporarily closed and part of our savings will be taken from us in exchange for bank stock to make sure that banks do stay afloat and the system does not collapse entirely.

                    • For people who’ve been studying 9/11 since it happened, arguing against American empire since 2004 (or earlier), and sensitive to the media’s perpetual lies for a decade or more, it is hard to believe that this time they are telling the truth.

                      But the are.

                      The evidence that Russian-supplied, equipped, empowered, separatists/mercenaries shot down MH17 is overwhelming.

                      Evidence to the contrary is grasping at straws.

                      Yes, the US media is probably overplaying this news for a variety of reasons — distract from the Gaza War, from economic woes, the gov’t wants a big enemy — but there is no credible evidence that the Kremlin narrative is anything other than another load of Soviet-style propaganda.

                    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                      Nope. Evidence produced by the US is laughable. It is a 2010 map with a trajectory drawn on it. Then a bunch of words “I promise, we got a 100% proof”. I mean we saw it on Youtube and Twitter. As always, US-backed media knew within minutes who did it and how. The experts got their hands on the black boxes just now. And yes, Gaza land invasion happened as soon as media had something to distract the public with.

                      Same with Gaza – http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-t he-israeli-teens-after-all.html

                      Once the conflicted is started, it does not matter anymore. People are dumb. Thinking is too much work. Going with the flow of manufactured emotions is much easier.

                      Whether you believe whatever you are saying, or just believe that might makes right, you aligned yourself with the wrong gang.

                      US/NATO is going down. The dollar is dying. Germany and France are going to pivot East and exit NATO, EU and the Euro. As soon as that happens, there is no more system. China will bail Europe out and guess what – Putin is not going to invade anybody.

                      Then the people of Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Lithuania, Bulgaria and others will have to ask themselves – what were we giving US blowjobs for all this time? There will be much shame for the Ukrainians.

                  • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

                    Hi Doug,

                    DOW dropped 500 points in 5 days. Nervous yet?

                    Non-video link: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1LENP_ enUS554US554&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=djia

                    You can pick the “5 days” time scale to see it clearly.

                    • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

                      Hey Doug, you invest in the real estate, so I would like you to know that London real estate prices just plunged almost 6% in one month. Can you see a writing on the wall?

                      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-17/london-home-asking-price s-plunge-most-in-more-than-six-years.html

                    • Doug NusbaumNo Gravatar says:

                      Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. How many more astute observatrions have you made. Or rather how much money have you made with your brilliant predictions? My guess would be less than zero. But since you probably make just a bit more than minimum wage (Maybe $20.00 an hour) you probably do not lay the market.

                      If you are in the market, I suspect the market plays you. though I am sure that in your world you would be wealthy if only the market were not rigged. And “rigged” in such a subtle way, that your brilliant mind fails to understand how.

                  • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                    Hi Doug, major banks are instructed to be prepping for a disaster.
                    I would be withdrawing cash and buying something real about now.

                    http://freebeacon.com/issues/treasury-department-seeking-survival -kits-for-bank-employees/

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Perhaps Putin actually cares about us. He plans on taking over the US and wants to make sure that he does not end up owning wasteland.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpnEVp3rOIA&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8E Yxg8t1dQ

      Just kidding. Anyhow, Putin’s opposition to fracking in the US probably has everything to do with Russia and the carbohydrates markets, but the reason why Putin supports or opposes something does not make it right or wrong. You know, it would be helpful to look at (if exists) objective statistics, independent science, etc.

  47. “John” —

    You write in the language of a paid Kremlin propagandist, but I’m going to answer your comment at face value anyway.

    “Evidence produced by the US is laughable. It is a 2010 map with a trajectory drawn on it. Then a bunch of words “I promise, we got a 100% proof”.”

    This is simply false. You are L-Y-I-N-G.

    The evidence that the Russian Mercenaries / Separatists shot down MH17 is as follows:

    – It happened deep in Russian controlled territory.
    – The Mercenaries celebrated the shooting down on social media before realizing it was a civilian airliner.
    – Russian media announced the shooting down of a Ukrainian military plane before realizing it was a civilian airliner.
    – 3 Ukrainian planes were shot down in the general area.
    – Russian separatists dispatched forces to capture pilots.
    – Russian separatists kept investigators away from the crash site, even firing warning shots.
    – Russian separatists bragged on social media that they had a BUK AA System in the weeks prior to the event (then scrubbed all their posts).
    – There is video of the BUK being evacuated from Ukraine.
    – There is an intercepted conversation between on-the-ground forces telling a shocked commander that the plane is civilian.

    Here’s a bunch of links I collected: http://romaninukraine.com/ma17-stories-links/

    It seems to me that you’re deliberately lying when you say the only evidence is a map from 2010 with some lines drawn on it.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Been busy. Comon dude, it has been a month and Washington is awfully quiet on this matter. I maintain that whatever “evidence” Washington claimed it had was laughable. They showed nothing. Their evidence of Russia shelling into Ukraine was also a bad joke. The zoom in square showing several vehicles did not even match the zoomed out version. Dude, where is the road? They dropped it unofficially on a weekend. Your buddy Paul Craig Roberts had a comment that real info is never shared this way.
      Kiev also had Buks in the area, their range is quite high plus the airliner can travel some 10+ miles while falling, if its original cruising speed was one mile every 8 seconds. Anyhow, I am getting into the weeds here.

      I looked at some of the evidence you collected. It is circumstantial (meaning that yes I see a Buk in a video, but where and when and in which country – who knows? The audio recording sounds more serious at first, but there are many opportunities to create a “mix tape”. People reporting on a downed Kiev transport plane – they did not pull the trigger. How would they really know? I bet they reported what they expected, and Kiev planes have been shot down around that time). None of the evidence is as strong as the suspicious behavior of Washington, which “knew it all” very quickly but then went radio silent about the matter.

      So some of the following evidence collected here could be circumstantial, but it looks pretty solid: http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence- points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/

      If you think you have something real, feel free to contribute to Corbett’s open source investigation: http://www.corbettreport.com/what-really-happened-to-mh17-an-open -source-investigation/
      Your voice will be heard but it will be one of many.

      Here is a latest kicker: Shit like this is why I am a conspiracy theorist. I do not want to be, but I cannot unlearn what I know or unthink what I contemplated
      http://www.blacklistednews.com/The_Causes_of_the_MH17_Crash_are_% E2%80%9CClassified%E2%80%9D._Ukraine%2C_Netherlands%2C_Australia% 2C_Belgium_Signed_a_%E2%80%9CNon-disclosure_Agreement%E2%80%9D/37 468/0/38/38/Y/M.html

      • Thanks, Ivan. Here’s my collection of links: http://romaninukraine.com/ma17-stories-links/

        The evidence is hugely supportive of Russian mercenaries shooting down MH17.

        Mercenaries took credit of social media, before realizing it was a passenger plane. Russian news reported the downing of the Ukrainian plane, then realized it was passenger plane. Mercenaries were dispatched to the area to look for the pilot. There’s a recording of communications between mercenaries and their Russian handlers when they realized it was passenger plane – albeit released be the SBU.

        The flip side is Russians (and libertarian media) claiming MH17 was filled with already-dead bodies. That it was shot down by a Ukrainian SU-25 (which can’t fly high enough to do that). Saying Ukrainians had BUKs in the area — which would have required the plane to fly pretty damn far AFTER being hit. The claim that the flight was diverted is also nonsense. Der Speilgel reported the same flight path was used hundreds of times in the weeks prior. You can verify this yourself here: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140709/1000Z/E HAM/WMKK

        There was also incriminating behavior by Russians after the crash: Russian media and the mercenary’s social media also went crazy erasing their earlier reporting about BUKs. They also kept investigators away for days while contaminating the evidence, even firing warning shots into the air.

        The mercenaries also stole victims credit cards and used them to buy vodka — shows what type of people they are.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          I am tired of your emotive non-logic. I see a lot of declarative statements and adjectives. This is fine in the world of creative writing, but is more than useless in a fact-based field like engineering. Millions of lives would be saved if more people thought like scientists rather than populists.

          The only reason why I know who you are is because of James Corbett. He will be making a video as the result of an open source investigation. You have a chance to contribute your evidence before he makes a video.

          Kiev withheld traffic control recordings. Investigators signed a non-disclosure agreement on the results of the investigation. Separatists were more than willing to work with international monitors while Kiev was shelling the area in order to keep them out in violation of an international agreement. Washington accused Russia and separatists of downing the jet but had nothing concrete to show for it despite having satellites flying over the area and having their ships full of radar equipment in the black sea. Russians uploaded their radar data. Washington has not shown anything.

          It stinks to high heaven, particularly the non-disclosure of the investigation part. If you are unwilling to open your eyes to that, then I am likely to conclude that you, in fact, are being paid by Washington to write these blog posts.

          • “I am tired of your emotive non-logic. I see a lot of declarative statements and adjectives.”

            No you don’t. There’s three adjectives in my entire response. And the only declarative statements are the ones which summarize the evidence I present. How is it “emotive non-logic”?

            This is exactly the type of comment that makes me think you’re one of the Kremlin’s professional trolls. Here’s an article about them: http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-trol l-army-hit-america#26x3py5

            • JohnNo Gravatar says:

              I am Putin’s personal favorite. He loves my impressive WPM, my English vocabulary, my addiction to American sitcom and my ability and desire to wake up at an ungodly hour to make it look like I reside in the Pacific time zone. Also I am shorter than him and rather un-athletic, so he does not feel threatened. He has been inviting me to his dacha, teaching me some Judo moves and a little bit of German. I also get free lap dances from the girls who come over, but no fornication, touching or fluid exchange is allowed. I do not mind though; without Vlad I would not get to any base.

              • VladNo Gravatar says:

                “If it looks like Kremlin shit, smells like Kremlin shit, and tastes like Kremlin shit too — then it’s Kremlin shit.” “John” of the PST is very persuasive.

                http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-trol l-army-hit-america#2ag23eb

                • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                  Roman, in a couple of weeks James Corbett is about to release his findings on MH17 from an open source investigation that he has going on his site. I suggest that you log in there and post your evidence. Otherwise you are going to squeal that yet another libertarian jumped the shark in order to get on Putin’s payroll. If your evidence is so earth-shattering, then you should be able to convince a bunch of people.

                  Below is a link for you. There is still time. Your sharp words and bright logic will surely win the hearts and minds of his open-minded audience. A friendly tip: you will need to engage the readers for there are many voices on the forum. You would not want the information that you provide to be lost due to the sheer volume of discussion. Go forth and make your dent in history! Make the ideologically pure members at mises.org (as opposed to the shark-jumping kind) proud.

                  http://www.corbettreport.com/what-really-happened-to-mh17-an-open -source-investigation/

                  P.S. Even if the cards are stacked against you and Ukraine and people just do not want to see the light, at least you would have tried and I will not have a reason to call you a “keyboard ranger”.


        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          HAHA, Now I am going to sound like a Kremlin troll. Oh well. http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/25981/53/

          A letter sent by a prominent Dutch Professor to Russian president Vladimir Putin has attracted much media attention in Europe. The letter was written by Professor Cees Hamelink and signed by dozens of Dutch intellectuals and professors. Below is the letter in its entirety.

          Dear Mr. President Putin,

          Please accept our apologies on behalf of a great many people here in the Netherlands for our Government and our Media. The facts concerning MH17 are twisted to defame you and your country.

          We are powerless onlookers, as we witness how the Western Nations, led by the United States, accuse Russia of crimes they commit themselves more than anybody else. We reject the double standards that are used for Russia and the West. In our societies, sufficient evidence is required for a conviction. The way you and your Nation are convicted for ‘crimes’ without evidence, is ruthless and despicable.

          You have saved us from a conflict in Syria that could have escalated into a World War. The mass killing of innocent Syrian civilians through gassing by ‘Al-­‐Qaeda’ terrorists, trained and armed by the US and paid for by Saudi Arabia, was blamed on Assad. In doing so, the West hoped public opinion would turn against Assad, paving the way for an attack on Syria.

          Not long after this, Western forces have built up, trained and armed an ‘opposition’ in the Ukraine, to prepare a coup against the legitimate Government in Kiev. The putschists taking over were quickly recognized by Western Governments. They were provided with loans from our tax money to prop their new Government up.

          The people of the Crimea did not agree with this and showed this with peaceful demonstrations. Anonymous snipers and violence by Ukrainian troops turned these demonstrations into demands for independence from Kiev. Whether you support these separatist movements is immaterial, considering the blatant Imperialism of the West.

          Russia is wrongly accused, without evidence or investigation, of delivering the weapons systems that allegedly brought down MH17. For this reason Western Governments claim they have a right to economically pressure Russia.

          We, awake citizens of the West, who see the lies and machinations of our Governments, wish to offer you our apologies for what is done in our name.
          It’s unfortunately true, that our media have lost all independence and are just mouthpieces for the Powers that Be. Because of this, Western people tend to have a warped view of reality and are unable to hold their politicians to account.

          Our hopes are focused on your wisdom. We want Peace. We see that Western Governments do not serve the people but are working towards a New World Order. The destruction of sovereign nations and the killing of millions of innocent people is, seemingly, a price worth paying for them, to achieve this goal.

          We, the people of the Netherlands, want Peace and Justice, also for and with Russia.
          We hope to make clear that the Dutch Government speaks for itself only. We pray our efforts will help to diffuse the rising tensions between our Nations.


          Professor Cees Hamelink

  48. “I can’t decide whether the authors, many of whom I’ve long admired, suffer a bias toward contrarian narratives”

    I think this is probably the number one driving factor in libertarians – or any intellectuals from the west – supporting or entertaining a pro-Russian narrative. Your version of events, quite apart from being supported by fact and evidence (which are always compelling considerations) has the likely benefit of being true, and the status of Ukraine as what you call a “border land” is worthwhile. Having a fully armed society is likely a precondition for true Ukrainian independence.

    • The DudeNo Gravatar says:

      “Having a fully armed society is likely a precondition for true Ukrainian independence.”
      Yah dude, there is a Grand Canyon of a difference between what is and what ought to be in Ukraine. Under the new law police can shoot Roman dead as long as they first scream “he is coming right for us!”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6kKhlX8vU

      “The document gives the right to law enforcers to apply without warning measures of physical effect, special means and firearms against persons who are recognized terrorists under the Law of Ukraine [called] ‘On [the] struggle against terrorism,’” a presidential statement said.

      http://www.praguepost.com/world-news/40991-poroshenko-expands-pol ice-powers

      Very ironic that the leader of the anti-police revolution or whatever is now turning Ukraine into a police state. Ukraine has become one big “Animal Farm”.

      • Who is the fascist police state? Russia or Ukraine.

        A very well-sourced article by RUSSIAN libertarian Mikhail Svetov:


        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          How is the arming of Ukrainian citizens coming along? Think Poroshenko will go along with your plan to liberate the country? Are you planning to arm Mariupol and Odessa as well, or only the territories to the West of the Dnieper River?

          Can’t help but think of you pal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw

          • Look it’s not that complicated. You have Polish prosperity to the west, and Russian gangsterism and corruption in the east.

            It’s the same choice faced by Finland, Estonia, Lativa, Lithuania, Georgia, and the Whole Warsaw Pact in 1989. There’s a reason everyone hates Russia. They created hell on Earth in these countries, attempted to obliterate local identity, language culture.

            Ukraine is already much, much freer than it was last year. I mean, just compare Ukraine to Russia as this RUSSIAN libertarian does: http://pc.blogspot.in/2014/08/putins-libertarians.html Can you read this instead of ignoring it and giving me another set of Kremlin talking points to refute? 🙂

            Everyone should be armed.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          You’re engaging the old Soviet tactic of Whataboutism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism).

          And you’re pretty transparent. Everything that’s good for the Kiev government, you approve. Everything that’s bad for the Kiev government, you play Whataboutism.

          I will post more on this later.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Holy crap, this is the same Bonenberger who thinks that Ukrainian army can defeat Russia, lol. Let’s see if they can first defeat Right Sector in Mukachevo and elsewhere.

      Roman thinks that Azov will celebrate this Christmas in Rostov (and not as prisoners).

      Birds of feather …