Plunder Der Staat

[Script]

I've reached a point where I've kind of given up.  Given up on convincing people that we could have a Stateless society.  Given up on persuading people that systemic violence and theft isn't a healthy way to structure society.  Humans are dumb.  I think I'm going to move into a new phase of my life where I will seek to plunder the State and everyone who supports it.  Basically: "If you want this system, fine, but I'm going to fuck you over with your own club." 

Some may say this is violating the libertarian principles.  I don't think so.

Thoughts? 

[Seth King]

I wholeheartedly support it!

I'm really no too concerned about convincing people either. If and when an individual is ready to wake up, they will, and no amount of propaganda is going to keep them asleep. Conversely, a person who wants to stay asleep will not matter how much you preach the gospel.

My attitude is to worry about #1, and the people in #1's life that bring value. Everybody else can suffer with their system.

That's not to say I don't speak my mind freely. I do, but I don't let it get me down when they don't take the bait.

[JustSayNoToStatism]

Without the details of exactly what you want to do, I say go for it. There are a lot of times when it's appropriate, although there are a few when I think it's not.

[Script]

Right now it's simply contracting to the State (detached a few levels). Some libertarians seem to think that's a violation of principles.  I have a line drawn for the type of work I will do (nothing that will kill people) but I don't have a problem taking back State monies.

Better I get the money than a Statist.  I will put at least some of it back into the grey and black markets.

[helio]

Did something happen recently that makes you feel this way like having the 'big talk' with someone you care about and being shot down?

I don't think you should give up, rather pick your battles and focus on the positive things you can do for yourself and others you want to convince.

It really helps if you have some other liberty minded folk you can get together with.  That has been one awesome benefit of moving to NH.  As soon as my fiance and I get our apartment furnished, we are going to start inviting folks over for small diner parties for that very purpose.

As for plundering the state, robbing the robber is an amoral action.  It is impossible to return what you are taking to the robber's victims.  I think we are mainly playing a waiting game.  The state will fail, like all others in history.  Those who are ready to fill the market demand for the services that the state once operated in exclusively will inherit the future rewards of liberty.  Till then, survive and prepare. 

So yeah, do what you have to do to survive, but don't lose hope.

[Kinglord of Castle Manufactoria]

Right now it's simply contracting to the State (detached a few levels). Some libertarians seem to think that's a violation of principles.  I have a line drawn for the type of work I will do (nothing that will kill people) but I don't have a problem taking back State monies.

Better I get the money than a Statist.  I will put at least some of it back into the grey and black markets.

This is kind of where I'm at as well.
Whether this is my brain giving me a protective mental shield(made of pragmatism and rage) against my own principles or my principles evolving/changing, I'm not sure. I'm not even really sure there is a difference.

I work for an IHS/BIA/native state corp funded outfit. The only redeeming note is that the org is massively socialisty and eats itself from the inside constantly. It's like working in a soviet govt, there are bizarre rituals in every meeting, the first person to clap is a hero, the last person to clap is fired. Every department has an initiative or 7. Hilarious amounts of backstabbing takes place for no real reason(advancement isn't really a thing the people in this org think about).

But yeah, I don't know if it's "giving up" or "finding new and hilarious ways to spite the state while laughing at it's internal machinations."

[Script]

As for plundering the state, robbing the robber is an amoral action.  It is impossible to return what you are taking to the robber's victims.  I think we are mainly playing a waiting game.  The state will fail, like all others in history.  Those who are ready to fill the market demand for the services that the state once operated in exclusively will inherit the future rewards of liberty.  Till then, survive and prepare.  

In this case that is true because the money has all been mixed up in a giant pot and stirred around.  Again, I just figure if I don't get it some Statist will.  At least I plan on putting some of it back into grey and black markets.  At any rate, it's not a life career for me.  Just a way to make some money and get some experience before pursuing other options.

But yeah, I don't know if it's "giving up" or "finding new and hilarious ways to spite the state while laughing at it's internal machinations."

This is definitely a good take on it.  I haven't "lost hope" or "given up" on anything.  It's just a new view on life, focusing on being prosperous and successful instead of worrying about that which I have very little control over.

BTW, your new forum moniker is awesome.  I will buy you a gin and tonic in the near future because of it. And we will laugh at ancoms together.

[Coltan L.]

I work at a state university and a local Pizza Hut. I don't have huge qualms about taking state money, but I'd rather not.  And not just for ethical or philosophical reasons either. My state job is a collection of perverse incentives, lack of goals, insane mismanagement, yada yada.  Where as in my shitty 2nd job, people are already fighting over me because its clear I don't suck in only a week. My Pizza Hut is not a model of efficient management, but it functions because the incentives are there.

I'm actively moving towards a private professional level job, just for my own sanity. Most state jobs that emulate a private one make everything all screwy.

After all no state job would have something like this :https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnewcdn.flamehaus.com%2FValve_Handbook_LowRes.pdf

[AuNero]

Walter Block says that it's okay to take money from the government.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block175.html

Excerpt --

My take on this is that it is a positive virtue to relieve the government of its ill-gotten gains. Suppose Z steals an apple from Y and then X comes along and takes this fruit away from Z. Did X do anything wrong? Did he act incompatibly with the NAP? Is X no longer a libertarian? Of course not. Very much to the contrary, X did something entirely compatible with our philosophy.

Certainly, all libertarian theories of private property rights, of punishment, would agree that of all people in the world, Z is the absolutely least deserving of this foodstuff. Now, it might be nice, it might be virtuous, for X to return the apple to Y.

[JustSayNoToStatism]

Welcome AuNero. I believe I met you on the DP forums.

[AuNero]

Welcome AuNero. I believe I met you on the DP forums.

Hi. Are you resistthering on DP?

[AuNero]

I think I'm going to move into a new phase of my life where I will seek to plunder the State and everyone who supports it." 

Apparently the state is encouraging plunder of itself.

CNN: Government wants more people on food stamps

More than one in seven Americans are on food stamps, but the federal government wants even more people to sign up for the safety net program.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture has been running radio ads for the past four months encouraging those eligible to enroll. The campaign is targeted at the elderly, working poor, the unemployed and Hispanics.

The department is spending between $2.5 million and $3 million on paid spots, and free public service announcements are also airing.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/25/news/economy/food-stamps-ads/