Taboos and Children

[rudolph]

To be perfectly honest, this is a topic I am not completely comfortable mentioning, but I figured I would give it a go. What exactly is moral concerning matters such as child pornography, child prostitution, etc. I am curious as to your views as well as how ancap would handle (or not handle) such things. Also, I know Murray Rothbard touched upon it in the Ethics of Liberty, but I was wandering if you guys had any other readings concerning the issue you would reccommend.

[Syock]

This reminds me of another thread you might want to read if you haven't already.  http://dailyanarchist.com/forum/index.php/topic,1019.0.html  Not exactly the same question, but some similarity. 

[rudolph]

This reminds me of another thread you might want to read if you haven't already.  http://dailyanarchist.com/forum/index.php/topic,1019.0.html  Not exactly the same question, but some similarity. 

Whoa thanks man, this is really interesting.

[rudolph]

Wow, just read through that entire thread...fiery. I am a bit annoyed that things like pedophelia and necrophelia were considered "progressive", but interesting read nonetheless

[JustSayNoToStatism]

Wow, just read through that entire thread...fiery. I am a bit annoyed that things like pedophelia and necrophelia were considered "progressive", but interesting read nonetheless

You're more tolerant than me. I find political or ideological use of the word 'progressive,' on its own, to be completely annoying, regardless of what it describes.

[rudolph]

You're more tolerant than me. I find political or ideological use of the word 'progressive,' on its own, to be completely annoying, regardless of what it describes.

Nope, you and me are on the same wavelength. Nothing "progressive" about more statism.

[JustSayNoToStatism]

You're more tolerant than me. I find political or ideological use of the word 'progressive,' on its own, to be completely annoying, regardless of what it describes.

Nope, you and me are on the same wavelength. Nothing "progressive" about more statism.

It's not even that progressivism sides with big government. It's just the idea of naming your movement "progressive." It's like defining yourself as "correct." Everyone wants progress. Everyone wants something that is good. It's as if we renamed market anarchism "wonderful goodness-ism," and then confronted all our detractors by calling them cranks and writing them off as hating goodness. I think people should be above this five year old mentality.

[Syock]

It's not even that progressivism sides with big government. It's just the idea of naming your movement "progressive." It's like defining yourself as "correct." Everyone wants progress. Everyone wants something that is good. It's as if we renamed market anarchism "wonderful goodness-ism," and then confronted all our detractors by calling them cranks and writing them off as hating goodness. I think people should be above this five year old mentality.

That is an awesome idea!  Lets do that!

[rudolph]

HaHa very true, good point.

[macsnafu]

To be perfectly honest, this is a topic I am not completely comfortable mentioning, but I figured I would give it a go. What exactly is moral concerning matters such as child pornography, child prostitution, etc. I am curious as to your views as well as how ancap would handle (or not handle) such things. Also, I know Murray Rothbard touched upon it in the Ethics of Liberty, but I was wandering if you guys had any other readings concerning the issue you would reccommend.

Well, a lot depends upon how you define child pornography.  That's difficult enough that I would tackle child prostitution separately. 

Basically, I go by the non-aggression principle, so anything that doesn't violate that is okay by me.  That is, it shouldn't be considered a crime, even if I dislike it or are offended by it. 

I consider child pornography to be sexual acts with children, and not mere nudity of chiidren.
Thus, actual children being used sexually to make a porn film would be criminal by me, while simulating sex with children on film, by various techniques, might be deplorable, but not criminal. 

Furthermore, if the child pornography did not involve actual living children while depicting sex with children, then again, this might be offensive, but not criminal.  Examples of this would be animation or CGI, drawings, or even just prose text describing sex with children.

Of course, this also depends somewhat on who is considered a child, and who is considered an adult, a question that also applies to child prostitution. 

Merely setting an age, be it 12, 16, 18, or 21, is an arbitrary convenience that tells us little about the person's actual maturity and ability to be responsible for themselves.  A major point about raising children, I think, is to help them get to the point where they can take care of themselves and be fully responsible for their actions.  Once a person reaches that point, then I think they should be considered an adult, not a child.   

Since age is not a good way to determine this, there needs to be some way a person can prove they are an adult, some modern or updated version of adulthood rituals.  One obvious way, for example, would be if the person is capable of earning a living and maintaining their own household, though that need not be the only way. 

And with that in mind, I tend to think that a child should not be engaged in prostitution, but anyone who has proven themselves as an adult should be allowed to.  Heh, that might be a bit circular, if their way of proving they can earn a living is to engage in prostitution!  Maybe I need to think this out some more.

 

[kunkmiester]

People used to get married at 14-16.

[MAM]

Why do we need to worry about adulthood? If everyone is capable of exchange than a child can be too?

I don't even see why we need to concern ourselves with adulthood, just give everyone negative rights and leave it at that.

Honestly I'm not sure what's attractive about an under developed kid but as long as both parties consent than I don't see anything wrong with it,, even if I find it disturbing.

[haxor]

I once heard an anarchist say to a girl who was asking revenge techniques against a guy whi tried to rape her. He said:
1. rufy him up
2. tattoo rapist on his forehead.
3. watch him die slowly.

I find that these subject tend to be solved by humans one way or the other. Molesters, rapist, child porn industry. I trult beleive in a free society would be taken care of in a dark alley somewhere. rather this is right or wrong, it happens.

Reminds me of where im from. in the South if a dude beats his wife in a club or bar he finds himself hopeing the cops get there soon. when they finally do get there hes got a few more busted teeth than his wife does. again, some things take care of themselves.

[MAM]

I once heard an anarchist say to a girl who was asking revenge techniques against a guy whi tried to rape her. He said:
1. rufy him up
2. tattoo rapist on his forehead.
3. watch him die slowly.

I find that these subject tend to be solved by humans one way or the other. Molesters, rapist, child porn industry. I trult beleive in a free society would be taken care of in a dark alley somewhere. rather this is right or wrong, it happens.

Reminds me of where im from. in the South if a dude beats his wife in a club or bar he finds himself hopeing the cops get there soon. when they finally do get there hes got a few more busted teeth than his wife does. again, some things take care of themselves.

I think Just Say No To Statism said.

1. When in doubt mind your own business
2. Always have doubt

[Disengage]

I think Just Say No To Statism said.

1. When in doubt mind your own business
2. Always have doubt

I think I was the one that said that, but either way, I agree.

I ALSO agree that these things will 'tend to get taken care of' on their own in the manner described by previous posters.    Not saying that that is the best solution, but it will be the first solution that presents itself once government is removed from the picture.   It probably won't go away even if a 'better' solution appears.