Seasteading

[MAM]

Whose interested? Let's just talk about this yay!

[SinCityVoluntaryist]

 Are you referring to the plan to build those artificial libertarian islands off the coast of the Unites States? I already plan on moving there once they're done. We could probably get everyone from New Hampshire to move there as well.

[MAM]

Yessir that is what I am talking about I';m looking at the Seasteading  Institutes website on my other monitor right now.

[Syock]

I would say it completely depends on what it has to offer and costs involved. 

[Aegidius]

It's a wonderful idea, creating new land to bypass the problem that all the existing land is claimed by states.  Now we have only to see if it's ever actually feasible.

[Syock]

The big issue I see is it has to either reduce costs vs any land based alternative, or cater to something unavailable to land based businesses.  That is difficult to do, as there are relatively economically free and subsidized locations on land which could well balance out or beat the economic freedom on the seastead that has higher costs due to being at sea. 

It will be interesting to see what people try to do with it. 

[JustSayNoToStatism]

there are relatively economically free and subsidized locations on land which could well balance out or beat the economic freedom on the seastead that has higher costs due to being at sea. 

Where? Income and other taxes in the US eat up 40+ % of your income every year. Put in a more enlightening way, ditching the taxes would be a 67% pay increase (ceteris paribus: an admittedly unrealistic assumption).

[Syock]

USA is not the place to be.  Hong Kong is pretty decent all around, and Singapore has decent economic laws, although it lacks in other freedoms.  Other places are still relative tax havens, like the British Virgin Islands and the Isle of Man.  

If you work in a subsidized industry, that could outweigh everything. 

[kunkmiester]

Problem with a seastead is the hundreds of millions of up front building costs.  You have to convince someone that's a worthy investment.  If you built one, how many people would live there, and how much would they pay for rent for their living and working areas?  If you can get under $700 or so for living, and $1000 for a good sized shop, people will be interested, especially libertarian group buys.

I'd prefer a place that rents over letting you buy a condo like deal.  You'd still have to pay maintenance fees, and the rent is just clearer logically.  You have to be able to kick someone out if they're not contributing to maintaining the whole thing, and rent is clearer than getting to "own" something, but still be able to be evicted if you refuse to contribute to maintenance.

[JustSayNoToStatism]

I think you overestimate the upfront costs. Like a lazy person, I did a very quick search and ended up with this thread:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/cost-naval-ships-11968/. It makes me think we could set something up on the order of $10 million. I can't pinpoint a dollar estimate, but I'm saying it's between 10 and 100 million. Yes it's still a lot more money than what we have, but I don't think it's as prohibitively expensive as you think. If you ran a business that focused on drugs, gambling, and/or prostitution, out in international waters where nothing's illegal, you could make that money back real quick and earn enough to keep making new seasteads.

[Syock]

There is more than upfront costs to deal with. 

[JustSayNoToStatism]

There is more than upfront costs to deal with. 

What then? The point is to compare them with the costs of paying off the mafia. Unless these other costs are large (and don't have on land counterparts), I don't see the problem.

[Syock]

Maintenance on boats, especially steel boats in the ocean, is high vs a building on land.  There would also be fuel costs to consider to create the electric, filter water etc.  The cost for people to get there will be high as well.  Even if it seems great for the business owner, customers may well prefer Vegas.

[JustSayNoToStatism]

Apparently they've already claimed waters up to 200 miles out as "exclusive economics zones" so it's pointless. That's too far.

[JustSayNoToStatism]

Hong Kong is pretty decent all around, and Singapore has decent economic laws, although it lacks in other freedoms.  

Hmm...HK seems to consistently rank #1 or 2 in economic freedom. Low taxes, simple tax code, investment freedom and no capital gains or dividends taxes. That alone would make retiring a lot easier. English is one of the official languages so I'd be fine communication-wise. Have you ever lived there?