When Your Former Libertarian Hero Calls You a Nazi

October 10th, 2014   Submitted by Roman Skaskiw

Kremlin PropagandaINTRODUCTION

One of the biggest WTF moments of the Ukraine crisis was this demonstration by New York City’s lesbian gay trans bisexual & queer community in support of the “separatists” (who are mostly Russian-hired mercenaries, led by Russian GRU agents). The “separatists” are violently anti-gay.

At various times, Russia’s ever-changing propaganda centered on “protecting” Ukraine from European homosexuality. Sergei Aksyonov, the de facto leader of Russian-annexed Crimea has said “We do not need such people [homosexuals]. . . . Our police and self-defense forces will react immediately and in three minutes will explain to them what kind of sexual orientation they should stick to.”

So why would a LGBTQ community demonstrate on their behalf?

It seems increasingly clear that much of the alternative media is heavily influenced, whether consciously or unconsciously, by the Kremlin. This includes prominent libertarians who have faithfully echoed both the timing and content of Moscow’s evolving propaganda:

Ukraine’s protesters are Nazis (nevermind the open letter of Ukraine’s Jewish community), Ukraine’s protests are orchestrated by the west, Ukraine isn’t a real country, Ukraine has always been a part of Russia, CIA snipers shot protesters, 96% of Crimeans voted to secede in a fair, transparent election, Ukraine’s new leadership outlawed the Russian language, “local separatists” revolted in Eastern Ukraine where the majority supports them, Ukrainians targeted peaceful Russians in Odessa, Blackwater mercenaries fight on behalf of Ukraine, Russia was not equipping the “separatists,” Russian soldiers were not in Ukraine (contrary to statements made by the actual “separatist” leaders and fairly obvious evidence from the earliest seizures of Ukrainian government buildings: “I’m a colonel of the Russian Army”), Russia wasn’t firing artillery over the Ukrainian border in support of their soldiers, Russian military formations were not fighting in Ukraine, and the Ukrainian military was “ethnically cleansing” Russian speakers.

The latter claim made repeatedly by Daniel McAdams of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity is especially egregious and hypocritical. Since annexing parts of Ukraine, the Russians have engaged in brutal repression of ethnic and religious minorities. See my blog post, Dear Daniel McAdams, Who is ethnic cleansing? for specific examples. There is no analogous violence toward Russians.

That’s because Ukraine’s recent revolution was not anti-Russian but anti-corruption and anti-tyranny (Russians demonstrated on Maidan alongside Ukrainians), and thus terrifying to the corrupt, tyrannical regime in Moscow which has done everything from lie about baby crucifixions to stage massacres to make Ukraine seem savagely anti-Russian.

Included in the online instruction manual of “separatist” leader Pavel Gubarev is the instruction: “don’t pass up any opportunity to engage in some atrocity that can be blamed on the junta’s fighters.” He can rest assured, news of these massacres will continue to be broadcast through faithful parts of the libertarian media.

When I wrote Putin’s Libertarians in April, I assumed this subset of libertarians was mostly mistaken, and refuted their claims with overwhelming evidence. I’ve since learned that the Kremlin and its proxies, whether conscious or unconscious, produce bullshit at a pace far exceeding my ability to shovel it away.

STRIKING THE ROOT

Does it seem to anyone else that some libertarians only promote liberty where it intersects with weakness, anti-Americanism and demoralization? Demoralization was the first step of the Soviet Union’s propaganda strategy.

In the famous “Deception Was My Job” interview of ex-Soviet propaganda agent Yuri Bezmenov, he estimates that 85% of the KGB’s effort and resources went not to espionage, but to ideological subversion (also called “active measures”), the first step of which was demoralization.

. . . to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite the abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves . . . It’s a great brain washing process which goes very slow . . .

He describes departments of the KGB whose job it was to compile enormous lists of opinion makers in rival societies, including journalists, editors, and dissidents.

In the “Active Measures” interviews of former Soviet agents and experts, the opinion making is described as drops of water wearing down a stone. Former KGB Major Stanislav Levchenko discusses reliance upon local journalists and inserting rumors into a society’s dialogue.

In this context it is easier to understand how an LGBTQ organization might come out in support of the explicitly anti-gay Russian forces, or why fake libertarian Putin quotes circulate on social media.

Also, consider these old KGB tactics and networks in the context of recent comments by Lieutenant General Ion Pacepa, the highest ranking Soviet bloc intelligence officer ever to defect:

The very idea that the Soviet Union was defeated is disinformation in itself. The Soviet Union changed its name and dropped its facade of Marxism, but it remained the same samoderzhaviye, the historical Russian form of autocracy in which a tsar is running the country with the help of his political police.

During the Soviet Union, the KGB was a state within the state. Now the KGB is the state. Over 6,000 former KGB officers are running Russia’s federal and local governments. The Soviet Union had one KGB officer for every 428 citizens. In 2004, Russia had one FSB officer for every 297 citizens. . . .

Russia today is the first intelligence dictatorship in history. It is a brand new form of totalitarianism, which we are not yet familiar with. Now the KGB, rechristened FSB, is openly running Russia.

Various reports suggest Russian intelligence is more active than ever, and no longer drunk and cynical as they were in the twilight of Soviet times.

Here is a story about a member of Hungary’s dissenting, far-right Jobbick party caught in the KGB “Honey Trap.” His wife turned out to be an FSB agent simultaneously married to other influential people.

Here is a broader study of the Kremlin’s deep ties to Europe’s dissenting right.

Here is an article about strangely named British Helsinki Human Rights Group (no affiliation to the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights). The generally libertarian organization was also an apologist for Belarus’s dictatorship, and reported on fairly transparent false flag Nazi demonstrations to discredit a Ukrainian presidential candidate whom the Kremlin opposed. Three people associated with the organization are now at the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity, including the RPIPP’s executive director Daniel McAdams.

BIASED LIBERTARIANISM

Libertarianism, it seems, is biased toward anti-Americanism, weakness and demoralization.

You will never hear Putin’s libertarians discuss the world’s most sweeping free market reforms since Deng Xiaoping liberalized China’s economy. That’s because they happened in Georgia right before Russia’s 2008 invasion. Georgia fired all of its bureaucrats. Can you imagine? Their police stations, formerly hubs of corruption, were all torn down and rebuilt with glass walls, symbolizing transparency. Russia’s invasion and the loss of two provinces did not stop the small country from skyrocketing up the Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom.

Libertarians can learn a lot from Georgia’s experience. They can learn a lot from Ukraine’s recent revolution too, except they’re not being told the truth.

ROMAN SKASKIW IS A NAZI AND SCOTT HORTON HAS THE PICTURE TO PROVE IT

I have two noble reasons for closing with what some may consider a distasteful airing of dirty laundry, a personal squabble. The first is to rescue libertarianism from what is at best, the lunatic fringe, and at worst, malignant, choreographed propaganda. The second reason is to restore accuracy and integrity to the narrative being spun about Ukraine — the place I call home.

Scott Horton tweeted this:

Notice the phrase: “local militia fighters.” Beyond that, it’s obviously not me in the picture. It’s a Ukrainian politician who recevied 1.4% of the vote in the May Presidential election. The other nationalist candidate running for President received less than 1%. (Strangely, Russian-controlled news media reported that he actually won. It’s difficult to imagine why they’d report such easily refuted lies. Perhaps they’re attacking the very notion of truth, as discussed below.)

It wasn’t the first time Scott had send me this picture either.

Back in January when I assumed Putin’s libertarians were well intentioned truth seekers, I wrote to Scott on Facebook to correct his “Nazi” characterization of the protests. I respectfully explained to him and other libertarians how the Kremlin has a long history of accusing all of Russia’s neighbors (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland, Belarus, Georgia, Ukraine) of Nazism, or, in the case of Georgia, fascism. See my article Putin’s Libertarians for a history of this propaganda which includes the staging of Nazi events when no Nazis were to be found.

Scott respond with that picture — no words, no thanks, no discussion, no curiosity for the perspective of a libertarian living in Ukraine, just the picture of a marginally relevant Ukrainian politician, as if it alone condemned the sacrifice of so many Ukrainians against a brutal, hideously corrupt regime.

Nevermind the fact that three Jews were killed among the protesters, the open letter from Ukraine’s Jewish community opposing the Nazi narrative, the testimony of Kyiv’s head rabbi, the explicit swastikas and Bellamy salutes among Russia’s mercenaries in Eastern Ukraine who Scott has been cheerleading, the terrifying, explicitly fascist parades in Moscow and St Petersburg which celebrated this year’s May 1st holiday. None of that matters. One photo of a politicians whose party repeatedly failed to prove its relevance to the protests condemned Ukraine and justified Russia’s aggression.

What the hell is going on with libertarians?

(FYI: I never met Scott’s wife, or him.)

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(Answer: Because they’re mercenaries from Chechnya.)

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THE NATURE OF THEIR PROPAGANDA

The Kremlin lies which get propagated through libertarian media are not designed to stand the test of time. Like the strange Russian media’s report of completely fictitious results in Ukraine’s presidential election, the lies are easily refuted. Someone just has to do the work of shoveling bullshit.

The lies are designed to affect people’s first impressions, which we know to be very very sticky, even when faced with strong contrary evidence in the future. The false or at least unclear first impression creates cognitive dissonance and hesitation. The triumph of the Maidan protests against all odds cannot be celebrated when so many voices insist they are western-sponsored Nazis. The invasion of Crimea cannot be condemned when Daniel McAdams insists it is not happening. The massive deliveries of Russian military hardware to eastern Ukraine cannot be immediately addressed while Daniel McAdams appears on the Scott Horton Show and literally snickers that old T-64 tanks were no indication of Russian military support. He has said nothing about the T-72B tanks which are unique to the Russian military.

Lastly, the Kremlin’s lies attack the very notion of truth and deny observers a language for even discussing Russia’s aggression. This idea was articulated by Nobel Prize winning authors Mario Vargas Llosa of Peru and Swedish poet and psychologist Tomas Transtromer.

HOW TO ARGUE NON-INTERVENTION IN UKRAINE WITHOUT DECEPTION

When libertarians (the honest, truth-seeking ones) portray Russia’s aggression against Ukraine as defensive and just, they’re engaging in justification, ie. deception.

If you want to make the case against American intervention (really, ^continued non-intervention as the help Ukrainians have been pleading for has been minimal) then make it without deception. It should have everything to do with the cost of such a conflict and the need for Ukrainian self-reliance. I make the latter point myself here.

The case should have nothing to do with lies about protecting Russian speakers, or exaggerations about aggressive NATO expansion. It is not aggressive expansion when the people from Finland to Estonia to Poland to Georgia, mindful of the hell on Earth Moscow created in their societies, desperately WANT protection.

As I pointed out during my lecture at the 2011 Property and Freedom Society conference, there is a libertarian case for war in places where people want protection. If my neighbor was being raped, I would not maintain a policy of non-intervention. Liberty and property rights have a cost. Who will bear that cost?

Libertarian ideology is grossly misguided where it assumes non-aggression is sufficient. A commons of acceptable behavior exists. Social and legal norms exist and must be defended as one would defend property — ie. with violence.

My friend Curt Doolittle distinguishes aggression from harm from cost.

Sequence:
1 – I have no agreement with you, and therefore no constraint.
2 – I will not aggress against you.
3 – I will not cause you harm.
4 – I will not cause you to bear a cost.
5 – I will bear costs of reciprocal insurance.

He writes, “Non-aggression alone leaves open unethical, immoral, and conspiratorial action. Harm leaves open the problem of relative costs — ie the costs of prohibiting criminal, unethical, immoral, and conspiratorial action of all kinds.”

I think the jury is still out on the question of scale. Should you bear the cost of reciprocal insurance for your neighbor, but not for your neighbor’s neighbor, or should the scope be universal? It’s a question of strategy, I suppose.

So here’s the question for libertarians: Is property the natural state of man which can be returned to once we explain its obvious benefits to enough people? Or is it something only desired by a minority of people and achievable only when people are willing to fight for it?

I’m in the latter camp and I want to see libertarianism returned to it warrior-aristocratic roots. Your family guards that wall, my family guards this wall, inside will we have a market with property rights. If people attempt to breech our walls, we will kill them. If people are ready to help defend our norms, we will welcome them.

190 Responses to “When Your Former Libertarian Hero Calls You a Nazi”

  1. “You will never hear Putin’s libertarians”

    That much of your piece, at least, is correct.

    I suppose it’s possible to make the case that in opposing US meddling in Ukraine (and everywhere else), libertarians are acting in an objectively pro-Putin MANNER.

    But I have yet to ever meet a libertarian who did anything with actual pro-Putin INTENT.

    “Putin’s libertarians” don’t exist. Therefore we will never hear them.

    • Alex KourNo Gravatar says:

      Does it matter ?
      If so-called Libertarians act as Putinists, speak as Putinists, write as Putinists, poop as Putinists they ARE Putinists, regardless of what they are dreaming about themselves.

  2. VanmindNo Gravatar says:

    That’s some very interesting stuff, Mr. Skaskiw, thanks. The personal grievance section does appear to dilute an otherwise hard-hitting expose, but perhaps even all of that represents evidence which just happens to have the Skaskiw name associated with it.

    This avatar has been suspicious of divisive “libertarian” polemics for a long time (e.g. hard/soft), and The Doctor went so far as to deliberately rattle the pro-bear’s cage with one of those annoying Columbo-type questions. Neither avatar has ever thought much of obvious tools like Horton.

  3. Seth KingNo Gravatar says:

    “Or is it something only desired by a minority of people and achievable only when people are willing to fight for it?”

    I’m of this camp as well, but I still think you misrepresent the NAP when you conflate the NAP with pacifism, or even the unwillingness to hunt down criminals.

    If somebody breaks into my house and harms me and my family, I have every right to hunt that guy down and capture or kill him. And I will not be violating the NAP by doing so.

    • NAP is pacifism not against breaking and entering but against subtler forms of rent seeking.

      – If someone lies to get me to buy something. (fraud)

      – If someone doesn’t lie but omits information to get me to buy something. (fraud by omission)

      – Someone is honest but sells something to me which he knows is contrary to my expectations and well being. (aggression vs harm)

      – Someone sells bullets to a warlord whose bound prisoners are keeling beside a freshly dug ditch. (externality)

      – Some is rude. (stealing from the social commons)

      • Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

        The NAP is a vague proscription with few necessary consequences and certainly is no foundation for a comprehensive legal system. I don’t at all agree that Seth may hunt down and kill or otherwise harm a person only because he unilaterally decides that the person has violated his property rights.

        I rather favor Kukathas’ formulation of the free society in The Liberal Archipelago, based on free association, voluntary acceptance of the standards governing members of an association, including acceptable use of resources governed by the association, and a right to exit any association at will. Within this formulation, Seth has rights to enforce standards of propriety only because he associates with others to establish these standards, and this enforcement may never impose death on anyone except in self-defense.

        A sufficient number of persons in eastern Ukraine, wishing not to be governed by a central authority in Kiev, certainly have a right to independence from this authority in this formulation, but whether Ukrainian separatists are simply unwilling to be subject to Kiev, or are simply tools of the imperialism of another central authority in Moscow, or the reality is not so simple, is not my concern. I don’t know, and I don’t need to know, because I don’t accept responsibility for, and cannot possibly be responsible for, justice around the world.

  4. DNo Gravatar says:

    Great article. I’ve been waiting for someone to write something like this for a while. Over the last few months I have grown very disenchanted with Ron Paul and lew Rockwell, who among others make it very difficult to recruit new libertarians because of the conspiracy theories, the Putin talking points and their conviction that Islam is some type of pro liberty movement. Thank you.

  5. Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

    This is an interesting essay. My first reaction: “…why the hell is this posted in an ‘anarchist’ forum?…” Then, after looking at some of the comments I correct myself: “…why not???…” If an anarchist can’t sort out and make determinations between anarchy (<== pdf) and what's being touted as "libertarianism" s/he will forever bask in frustration.

    Because I've been puzzled from the beginning at the dichotomy of "libertarianism" vs "anarchy". What is labeled "libertarian" often seems to eschew anarchy totally. Much of it. By many — not all.

    All this folderol appears to fall under the category of what Thomas Pynchon is quoted as having lamented:

    "If they can keep you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." ~Tomas Pynchon
    http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/235.Thomas_Pynchon

    Wars and fighting will continue as long as folks form allegiances to abstractions. Any allegiance. To any abstraction (and D, I agree generally with your take on Ron Paul and Lew Rockwell. However, just because an essay appears under one of these forums does not automatically disqualify the content from being good common sense. It’s never wise to throw the baby out with the bath h2o).

    In fact, that’s what applies to Mr Skaskiw’s nice presentation here: it should be taken as a lesson-learner by anarchists (I can’t speak for “libertarians”). Once one views herself as “Ukrainian” or “Russian” or “American” s/he will never be free. S/he will constantly be engaged in the insanity of war — fighting “for” or “against” this or some other cause.
    And ancillarily (is that a word?), s/he will deem anyone who disagrees or who refuses to join her fight as “an enemy”.

    As I said, I was puzzled when my kids first set me up with the web at the vastness of the illusion. I’ll close with my list of “isms” that I began to catalog — which is now well over 100:

    • Various Libertarian and
    • Anarchist Labels

    • Acclarism
    • Agorism
    • Anagorism (http://anagory.wordpress.com/2013/03/29/antilibertarian-antistat ism/)
    • Anarcha-Feminism http://dailyanarchist.com/category/anarcha-feminism/
    • Anarchy
    • Anarcho-Capitalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism
    • Anarcho-communism
    • Anarcho-pacifism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_schools_of_thought#Anarch o-pacifism
    • Anarcho-primitivism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism
    • Anarcho-syndicalism http://dailyanarchist.com/category/anarcho-syndicalism/
    • Antilibertarian antistatism (see “Anagorism”)
    • Anti-Positivism
    • Apriorism
    • Autarchism (Le Fevre) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarchism
    • Black Anarchism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_anarchism
    • Buddhist Anarchism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_anarchism
    • Carsonian mutualism http://www.socialmemorycomplex.net/2006/04/21/vulgar-libertarian- revisionism/
    • Christian Anarchism http://dailyanarchist.com/category/christian-anarchism/
    • Classical Liberalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
    • Collectivist anarchism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivist_anarchism
    • Communism
    • Consequentialism
    • Dialectical Libertarianism http://c4ss.org/content/15318
    • Eco-agorism
    • Eco-Libertarianism
    • Eco-Socialist-Libertarian
    • Egalitarian Anarchism http://uscundercurrent.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/what-an-egalitari an-anarchist-society-might-look-like-by-max/
    • Egoist anarchism (Max Stirner)
    • Establishment liberal left
    • Existentialism
    • Explicitly anarchism, pro-decentralist libertarians (Kinsella)
    • Free Market Anarchism
    • Free Market Capitalism http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard146.html
    • Geoanarchism
    • Geoism (see “Georgism”)
    • Geolibertarianism
    • Georgism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism
    • Green-Libertarianism
    • Individualism
    • Individualist anarchism
    • Individualist/collectivist anarchist Individualist/collectivist anarchism
    • Insurrectionary anarchism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrectionary_anarchism
    • Kantianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant)
    • Kratoclism http://www.marketmentat.com/i-think-i-maked-up-a-word-two-actuall y/
    • Kritarchy http://www.voluntaryist.com/backissues/135.pdf P 8
    • Left Libertarianism
    • Left Market Anarchism http://c4ss.org/
    • Left-Rothbardians
    • Legal Positivism
    • Liberal socialism
    • Liberalism
    • Libertarian
    • Libertarian Anarchism
    • Libertarian conservatism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_conservatism
    • Libertarian Populism (James Ostrowski)
    • Libertarian Relativism http://takimag.com/article/the_relativist_roots_of_libertarianism  /#axzz2lcLsE3qN
    • Libertarian Socialism
    • Libertarian Solipsism http://www.masson.us/blog/libertarian-solipsism/
    • Libertarian Transhumanism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_transhumanism
    • Localism and decentralization
    • Logical Positivism
    • Market anarchism
    • Minarchism
    • Modal Libertarianism
    • Modern Liberalism
    • Modest Libertarianism http://www.informationphilosopher.com/freedom/modest_libertariani sm.html
    • Moral consequentialism
    • Muslim Anarchism http://dailyanarchist.com/category/muslim-anarchism/
    • Mutualism http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2006/03/p2p-cooperatives-and-counte r-economy.html
    • Natural-rights libertarianism
    • Neo-liberalism
    • Neolibertarianism
    • Objectivism
    • Panarchism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panarchy
    • Patrio-psychotic anarcho-materialism http://www.subgenius.com/
    • Platformism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platformism
    • Plumbline Libertarianism
    • Polycentrism
    • Post-anarchism
    • Post-left anarchy
    • Post-modernism
    • Post-structuralism
    • Praxeology
    • Primitivism
    • Progressive Libertarianism
    • Propertarianism http://www.propertarianism.com/
    • Punkish/syndicalist/queer radical social anarchism (above two from Rad Geek site)
    • Queer anarchism http://dailyanarchist.com/category/queer-anarchism/
    • Radical Libertarianism http://www.informationphilosopher.com/freedom/radical_libertarian ism.html
    • Radical minarchists
    • Right Libertarianism
    • Rothbardian strain of market anarchism
    • Schmodal Libertarianism
    • Scientific Anarchism Social Darwinian right-wing economics
    • Situationism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situationist_International
    • Socialism
    • Socialist Anarchism
    • Socialist-Libertarianism
    • Sortocracy http://sortocracy.org/
    • syndicalism
    • Syndicalist Anarchism
    • Thick Libertarianism http://c4ss.org/content/23175
    • Thin Libertarianism http://c4ss.org/content/23175
    • Transhumanist Anarchism http://c4ss.org/content/17838
    • Utilitarianism (Friedman’s strain of Anarcho-capitalism)
    • Utopian socialism
    • Voluntarism
    • Vulgar Libertarianism http://www.socialmemorycomplex.net/2006/04/21/vulgar-libertarian- revisionism/
    • Zenarchism

    Sam

    • Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

      Well put.

    • > Once one views herself as “Ukrainian” or “Russian” or “American” s/he will never be free.

      You strive to divorce people from their history, culture, social norms, genetics. This is a dead end. It’s also been tried before — national identity has always been the biggest obstacle for Marxist. After WWI , they recognized it as an insurmountable obstacle to economic Marxism, so a small group of their intellectuals reconstituted their philosophy as a cultural Marxism, and attacked identity explicitly.

      > S/he will constantly be engaged in the insanity of war — fighting “for” or “against” this or some other cause.

      Ukrainians are fighting (mostly) for property rights and rule of law.

      “There is still some good in the world. It is worth fighting for.” ~ Tolkein

      • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

        Roman Skaskiw:

        “…You strive to divorce people from their history, culture, social norms, genetics. This is a dead end. It’s also been tried before — national identity has always been the biggest obstacle for Marxist…”

        NO!

        I strive NOT. Nations are mindless abstractions. They don’t exist. People exist. Borders are fictitious lines in the sand, generally memorials of murder and carnage and “possession” — and the monopoly group of psychopaths grouped into what we lovingly call “the state” that swoop in and claim “jurisdiction”.

        I could go on, but for now this will have to do.

        I am a sovereign state. My family are sovereign (and homeschooled).

        Abstain from beans.

        Sam

        • > Nations are mindless abstractions.

          Perhaps we use this word in different ways. I distinguish states from nations.

          > “They don’t exist. People exist.”

          I would continue: genes exist, family exists, extended family exists, cultures exist, social norms exist. Clusters of the latter, I call nations.

          > Borders are fictitious lines in the sand

          How about the borders of your home? Are they also fictitious lines? The borders of a shopping mall?

          What if inside the borders of the shopping mall, certain rules were enforced (with violence) which distinguished the shopping ball from the bazaar — the requirement to only sell things with a warranty, for example, or the enforcement of trademarks?

          • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

            Roman:

            “…How about the borders of your home? Are they also fictitious lines?…”

            I have borders across which you must not step without my permission. Or, I wish you wouldn’t. I’m old and feeble — not as capable as I once was to personally protect those borders. So I’ve been forced in the course of my liberty to devise methods to counter your aggressive breaches should they occur — which they probably won’t.

            Freedom starts between your ears.

            Sam

            • Borders of a nation are very similar to those of a home. Citizens are share holders in the commons of the social norms.

              • Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

                I accept your distinction between “nation” and “state”, but the border between Donetsk and Russia certainly is not a border between nations. It is a border between states. A nation-state is not the only possible formulation of a state, and even where nation-states predominate, while people move, either freely or forcibly, across borders separating nation-states, nations blend along the border.

                The United States is not a nation-state, despite nonsensical attempts by various nationalists to characterize it as such. It is multi-national and increasingly multi-lingual as well. Canada is not a nation-state either. It is officially bi-national, and like the U.S., it incorporates far more than two nations. Australia is similarly multi-national, and the U.K. has always been multi-national. Israel is also multi-national. A “Jewish” nation is divided almost equally between the states of Israel and the United States, where Jews are highly respected, disproportionately influential and wealthier than Jews in Israel.

          • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

            Roman:

            “…What if inside the borders of the shopping mall, certain rules were enforced (with violence) which distinguished the shopping ball from the bazaar — the requirement to only sell things with a warranty, for example, or the enforcement of trademarks?…”

            This thread has apparently run its course and become combative; but a sincere question deserves a sincere response:

            In a free marketplace owners of shopping malls are free to create any stipulations they desire. They also know the market will keep them in line. Good tenants are hard enough to find and keep and help to be profitable without imposing nonsensical rules that restrict trade. Last thing shopping center entrepreneurs need is vacant space.

            I’ve noticed the last 10 years or so many owners of shopping malls are building convivial, supervised play areas for the kids. Nice for Grandpa, looking for ways to expend time so Mom can get her shopping out of the way. Later Grandpa gets to buy everyone lunch at the food court and enjoy more time with the family.

            This brings families into the mall and allows parents to do their shopping with the kids safe nearby and not under foot.

            I’m reminded of an old quotation from my cyber friend, Jim:

            “…No government anywhere,
            at any time,
            has ever brought net benefit to any society,
            and there is no desirable function
            that any government performs
            that could not be performed better,
            or less expensively,
            by free people
            operating on a voluntary basis
            for profit or for charity…”

            ~Jim Davies
            http://www.takelifeback.com/tdaw/

            Sam

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Sam Spade,

          You are arguing with a confused individual. There is a disconnect between what he says and what he does.

          His twitter used to have a picture of him in a military jeep. Now there is one of a gun and some sort of musical instrument. Roman should be more than capable of defending “his country”. He likes to praise the sacrifices of others. He likes to say “I am awed and humbled at the sacrifices … blah blah blah”. He likes to use the word “we” and to take credit for what others have done, and yet he would not join the fight.

          Is he a pacifist? Hell no! I took a snapshot of this twitter post of his:

          Roman Skaskiw @Roman_Skaskiw · Aug 29
          Тече річка Тиса, в ній московська кров, Москалів ми били, будем бити знов.

          Piped through Google Translate we get a meaning of what he wrote:

          Tisza river flows , it Muscovite blood Muscovite we were beaten, we should beat again.

          Hard to figure out exactly what it means, but I think it means that he wants to fight Russians until river Tisza turns red with Russian blood. And yet he does not do any of those things. It takes about 2000 USD “donation” to opt out of conscription in Ukraine. Given that Roman is a prime candidate but never left suggests to me that he went this route.

          Yet he acts very tough when in front of a keyboard and typing in a language that only his neighbors can understand.

          In English he is just a peace-loving victim of communism.

          My conclusion is that Roman has several faces and/or personalities.

  6. DNo Gravatar says:

    To clarify: In order to convince a liberal or a neocon of ancaps ability to provide them with a more free way of living I usually first have to get them to libertarianism (minarchism). THEN I go for anarchism. A direct leap from the mainstream to actual freedom takes a unique individual. Most people need to use baby steps. If you meet some random person on the street and tell them roads can be privately run they will think you are crazy. It can take years to get somone to realize they have been looking at shadows on a cave wall their whole lives.

  7. Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

    Scott Horton is a libertarian hero, even if he gets into stupid, childish twitter exchanges with you. He and Lew Rockwell and others occasionally slip into what seems an apology for Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, but they don’t support the separatist cause in fact.

    I listen to Scott every day, and he’s not pro-Putin or pro-separatist. He opposes U.S. involvement in the conflict, and so do I, not because I think you’re a Nazi but because I am subject to the U.S. have no dog in your fight. If you want to wage a war to keep eastern Ukraine subject to Kiev or to recapture the Crimean peninsula, go ahead, but I don’t have a dime or a drop of blood to spare for you.

    I don’t care whose Nazi stories are true either. I believe that Russian state propagandists call every enemy of their imperial policies a Nazi. U.S. state propagandists do the same thing, so why would I be surprised? I don’t know how much influence Ukraine’s neo-fascist parties have in Kiev, and I don’t much care. You’ll never convince me that all the good guys are concentrated in any state’s capital regardless, and even if you could convince me, I still have no dog in your fight. I don’t care which state dominates Donetsk.

    • > wage a war to keep eastern Ukraine subject to Kiev:

      Here’s a collection of surveys about sentiment in East Ukraine: http://romaninukraine.com/collection-of-surveys-about-sentiment-i n-e-ukraine/

      I see a small minority who desires autonomy or (even less) integration with Russia. The opposition to this minority has been beaten, kidnapped, tortured and murdered into silence.

      I’m close enough to this tragedy that I feel it my obligation to clarify misconceptions.

      Here’s a subtitled, eye witness account of the last major pro-Ukrainian rally to happen in Donetsk. They were assaulted, surrounded, forced to keel, urinated on, and two men (both locals) were stabbed to death.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gL_tBcg8lc
      (enable subtitles)

      • No OneNo Gravatar says:

        And you Roman ignore the evidence Right Sector murdered 50+ fellow Ukrainian citizens in Odessa simply because they desire autonomy from Kiev — not joining Russia. You ignore the videos on Anti-Maidan’s YouTube channel showing young Ukrainian thugs attacking pensioners for holding anti-war rallies in Kharkov and Kherson. You pretend there is still the rule of law in Ukraine when the Odessa massacre perps received…wait for it…house arrest awaiting trials that will never happen. You ignore hundreds of cases of kidnappings, beatings, arbitrary arrests by SBU, and SBU’s tendency to flat out make up recordings of ‘FSB/SVR/GRU operatives receiving instructions from their handlers’ which are just BS recorded in the SBU’s sound studio in Kiev.

        You are a libertarian living in a collapsing, failed state that has to subsist on IMF loans it can never hope to pay back (but will lead to the fire sale sell off of any remaining valuable assets including cherny zom) desperately trying to rationalize the complete failure of his ‘Maidan revolution’ which has only led to a tyranny worse than Yanukovich. Yanuk was a thug and a corrupt asshole who deserved to be impeached and jailed, but if he were like the clowns that run your government now he simply would’ve sent helicopter gunships to the Maidan to kill everybody there and it would’ve been Lvov and not Donetsk or Lugansk subject to artillery fire and siege for months. Who knows, perhaps the Poles would have intervened to stop a Ukrainian civil war or a Yanuk war on Galicia. Except that probably never would’ve happened, and do you know why Roman? Because men from Donetsk and Lugansk would not have obeyed criminal orders to shell Lvov and Ternipol the way your fellow Galicians have obeyed illegal orders to commit war crimes and shell cities, water treatment facilities, power plants and schools in Donbas. The Donbas people are better than your people, who will continue to degrade themselves until they realize they were used by Washington’s ‘New World Order’ crowd to ‘fight Russia to the last Ukrainian’ like $3 hookers.

        • No OneNo Gravatar says:

          This is why I reject your fake libertarianism, and I spit on your bastard offspring of Hapsburg and Nazi propaganda Galicianized, zombified CIA funded Khyiv Mohila Academy clown show version of Ukraine. Someday there will be a peaceful borderland Ukrainia that recognizes Russianness and Russian language is simply a normal part of its identity, and when it tries to murder those elements and destroy its economic ties with Russia it commits both cultural and economic suicide.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Roman simply skips hard questions. He may also call you a Kremlin troll if you disagree with him.

          “Allow me to cherry pick evidence and you will never convince me that I am wrong.”

          Not only is he a fake libertarian, he is also a fake patriot, although he does display tribal loyalty.

          Perhaps it benefits him directly? Perhaps he will cease to get laid and will be ostracized by his community if he did not go with the flow? Perhaps he is trying too hard to prove to everyone that he is a real Ukrainian after being away from “his” country for so long.

          All conjectures, of course, but the gaps in his fact-gathering and logic bother me just as much as they bother you.

      • No OneNo Gravatar says:

        Those surveys were funded by the CIA front International Republican Institute (read John McInsane’s hobby shop) and were taken in Donbas prior to Banderastan’s army shelling, bombing and besieging Donetsk and Lugansk the two major population centers of Donbas for weeks.

        Here’s a video with hundreds of Mariupol residents greeting their Ukrainian Nazi Guard ‘liberators’ who killed a whole police station full of cops and murdered two residents on the street in cold blood:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k3ijEun94Q

        For those who don’t understand Russian the crowd is screaming ‘killers’. There are plenty of other videos from the same day of hundreds screaming ‘occupants’ ‘fascists’ and ‘pederasts’ at the Ukie National Guardsmen. These are images Roman simply can’t accept or has to dismiss as the product of ‘Russian TV’ brainwashing while EuroMaidanPR and Ukie TV call the fanatical defenders of Donetsk airport dying for nothing ‘cyborgs’ and shows weeks old footage of Ukrainian troops still holding the terminal that has nothing to do with reality today.

        • Some of the surveys of sentiment in the east are funded by Ukrainian groups, and the latest one is funded by Russian media: http://romaninukraine.com/collection-of-surveys-about-sentiment-i n-e-ukraine/

          As I said, a minority who desires autonomy or (an even smaller minority) integration with Russia. The opposition to this minority has been beaten, kidnapped, tortured and murdered into silence.

          Pro Ukrainian Rallies in Kharkiv were suppressed with brutal violence by hooligans who seemed to be from out of town (they were unfamiliar with the metro system): http://romaninukraine.com/viscous-beatings-of-pro-ukrainians-in-k harkiv/

          Donetsk Violence against Pro-Ukrainian rallies: http://romaninukraine.com/2-pro-ukrainian-protesters-in-donetsk-m urdered-under-chants-of-russia-russia-russia/

          A pro-Ukrainian politician from Donetsk region was found murdered with signs of torture: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27118875

          18 Crimean Tartars have vanished since Russia’s annexation. One has been found murdered with signs of torture. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/18/reshat-ametov-crimea_n _4983978.html

          You can make all the invectives you want about Ukrainians being Nazis, but you won’t find analogous hostility toward Russians.

          The Russian state media seems effective in convincing Russians they are about to be invaded. No body wants to invade Russia. We want to put up a gigantic wall to protect our civilization from brutality, corruption, murder, despair.

          Putin should have fixed the corruption of Russian society. Instead, he exported it.

          • No OneNo Gravatar says:

            “You can make all the invectives you want about Ukrainians being Nazis, but you won’t find analogous hostility toward Russians.”

            It’s not made up, as even the Daily Torygraph and UK Guardian reporters have realized after interviewing the Azov Battalion. When Ukies hold torchlit rallies in Lvov, use SS regalia on your ‘elite’ volunteer battalion Azov led by a Swedish Odin worshipper, and laughably insist the SS runes of the 2nd Das Reich division really stand for the English letters N I or National Idea…what else to call it? When apparently the highest priority of many in the Rada is glorification of Stepan Bandera and Roman Shuykevich, the latter a mass murderer who killed tens of thousands of Poles in 1943-45 Volyhnia massacres after his UPA/OUN volunteers deserted the SS paramilitary police groups they had eagerly joined in 1941, what else is the appropriate term? ‘Ultra nationalist’ and ‘ultra right wing’ just doesn’t do it justice.

            It’s too bad Roman Ukraine didn’t get to wall off Galicia or tell them to accept full autonomy for Donbas before this civil war started, while kicking all the Galician Svidomites out the educational system. Now they’ve produced a whole brainwashed generation of Ukie youth who will blame their country’s total economic collapse on the accursed Moskals.

            I’m not going to bother reading those links you posted, because it’s all more of the same ‘UPA/OUN heroically fought Nazis and Soviets’ bullshit. Show me a single battle where western Galicians actually resisted Nazsim, apart from those who fled to join the pro-Red Army or Jewish partisans in the forests. You can’t do it because it doesn’t exist.

          • JohnNo Gravatar says:

            Pro-Russians in Donbass are no minority. Three times as many refugees left for Russian than they did displace internally. Did you notice that the new Ukraine government caused over 1 million freaking refugees!!! Those damn communists!

            From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbass

            By early August, at least 730,000 had fled fighting in the Donbass and left for Russia.[86] This number, much larger than earlier estimates, was given by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). The number of internal refugees rose to 117,000.[86] By the start of September, after a sharp escalation over the course of August, the number of people displaced people from Donbass within Ukraine more than doubled to 260,000.[587] The number of refugees that fled from Donbass to Russia rose to 814,000.[588]

            Another way to tell the differences between the “East” and the “West” is to look at the demographics and who they voted for in 2010:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_20 10

            There is a very clear divide between places like Lviv and places like Crimea and Donbass:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_20 10#mediaviewer/File:%D0%94%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%82%D 1%83%D1%80_2010_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0 %D1%85-en.png

            There is a very similar map for Rada elections. Lviv and Donbass wer polar opposites. Now Right Sector is raiding offices of the party of regions while the government does nothing. There is no united Ukraine. Party of regions won with a landslide in the areas of conflict. That is no minority. Your polls are fake and the party that won the popular support in the East is having its oxygen turned off in the West.

            It takes cognitive dissonance of an epic proportion to ignore 800k+ refugees.

            Your anecdotal evidence about this or that dude being beaten is statistically insignificant. The will of the East has been expressed pretty clearly. Overwhelming majority wanted more autonomy and independence. After much bloodshed and shelling they just might get it. All that bloodshed and airstrikes and shelling did not accomplish anything constructive whatsoever. Violence never does; in fact it most often achieves the opposite of its stated goal.

            Experience tells me that you will cherry-pick facts that you like and ignore ones that you do not, so this post will not affect you. It will affect your readers though. I am hoping to “win their brains”. By that I mean to give them necessary facts to come to their own conclusion.

            • Voting for the party of regions is a tangential issue and not necessarily supportive of your conclusion.

              Why not look at surveys which directly ask the question of wanting to become independent or join Russia?

              Once again: http://romaninukraine.com/collection-of-surveys-about-sentiment-i n-e-ukraine/

              As I keep pointing out, the brutality with which pro-Ukrainian sentiment was suppressed in the east is plain for everyone to see. It includes kidnapping, torture, and murder.

              The pro-Ukrainian majority has been beaten, kidnapped, tortured and murdered into silence.

              Pro Ukrainian Rallies in Kharkiv were suppressed with brutal violence by hooligans who seemed to be from out of town (they were unfamiliar with the metro system): http://romaninukraine.com/viscous-beatings-of-pro-ukrainians-in-k harkiv/

              Donetsk Violence against Pro-Ukrainian rallies: http://romaninukraine.com/2-pro-ukrainian-protesters-in-donetsk-m urdered-under-chants-of-russia-russia-russia/

              A pro-Ukrainian politician from Donetsk region was found murdered with signs of torture: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27118875

              18 Crimean Tartars have vanished since Russia’s annexation. One has been found murdered with signs of torture. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/18/reshat-ametov-crimea_n _4983978.html

              You can make all the invectives you want about Ukrainians being Nazis, but you won’t find analogous hostility toward Russians.

              • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                I did not use the word Nazi, you did. Do not straw-men me please.
                I disagree about party of regions being a tangential issue. Tangential implies 90 degree angle, or complete independence. That is not the case. There is a lot of correlation between people leaning towards Pro-Russian candidates and people wanting to have their own independence.

                You like to point at your own blog. Note that as far as I am concerned, it is a much more suspicious source of information than Wikipedia. Anyhow, I will check out your links at a later time and debunk that which does not stand up to scrutiny.

                If it is not the 2010 elections, then the ratio of the refugees who crossed the Russian border 810k (about 75%) and those who stayed 260k (25%) should bother your rational engineer’s brain, if your current belief is that most people in the West consider themselves Ukrainian and do not support pro-Russian politics.

    • No OneNo Gravatar says:

      The core problem with Lvov’ites like Skaskiw, even if they are not Nazis, is that they maintain like many Poles and Balts an ideology of eternal victimization at the hands of Russians which becomes an excuse for everything and leads to total subservience to Washington, as even Radek Sikorski complained ‘we give them BJs and get nothing’. In terms of falsifying history, this ‘Svidomite’ mentality culminates in hacks like Timothy Synder doing everything possible to rationalize or excuse Nazi collaborators violence and blaming Jewish partisans for rising up when they had no choice but to likely die on their feet or die on their knees. In the case of Lvov in particular, it means being blind to the mass murder of Poles and Jews eagerly carried out by the Ukrainian Svidomites of 1941-44 that made Galicia ethnically ‘pure’ when Lviv aka Lemberg had been a majority Polish/Jewish/Yiddish or German speaking city before, as had been Lemberg. Ukrainians and anti-Russia fanatics all insist Russia has never apologized for Molotov Ribbentropp (false, Gorby and the Supreme Soviet did in 1990) or Russia’s bad behavior towards its neighbors in the past, but Balts and Ukrainians apparently have no past to atone for at all.

      What is the relevance of all of this today, besides denigrating Ukrainians as Nazis or fascists Roman may reply? The answer is simple: Ukrainian, or what should more accurately be called Galician exceptionalism since Galicia has successfully brainwashed Poltavan and Cossack descendants in old Cossack march core Ukraine into their ‘Russia is the eternal enemy’ worldview invented by Popes and Hapsburg monarchs. Roman cannot understand or admit Ukrainian nationalism is of rather recent vintage, about as recent as Zionism or a uniquely Palestinian Arab identity. Before WWI and the German General staff and Bandera, there were only Ruthenian Rus or Bessarabians living on the frontier between the Russian and Hapsburg empires.

      Western Ukrainians like Roman maintained their God-given right to overthrow a government they viewed as corrupt and increasingly tyrannical, irrespective of the fact that Yanukovich was democratically elected (so was Hitler, in the beginning). But they fanatically deny any agency or desire for autonomy to people in Donbas or Crimea, assuming everything those people do is merely ‘sovok’ or acting only as puppets of the Kremlin. They insist laughably that every Donbas militia man is either a ‘Polite Man in Green’ ‘Russian invader’ or at least are ‘brainwashed’ ‘sovok’ locals acting as ‘Russian mercenaries’. They lie or participate in the lie that Ukraine has only lost 1,300 soldiers when the real numbers are closer to 10,000. They laughbaly insist every shell that destroys an apartment bloc in Donbas was fired by the ‘Russian invaders’ to make the ‘heroic Ukrainian army look bad’. They pretend there are no consequences like mass graves with several raped and murdered women to promoting an ideology denying the humanity and political agency of Ukraine’s Southeast, and they ignore blatant video evidence that Odessa was a false flag carried out by red-armband wearing Right Sector Nazis and so was the destruction of the Mariupol police station that involved shooting a half dozen Mariupol residents in cold blood.

      Ultimately, Roman cannot answer the question posed by Zakharchenko or other Novorossiya commanders to their sad sack Ukrainian POWs: what gave you people from Ternipol, Lvov and Dnetropetrovsk the right to come and shell, bomb and murder people here in Donbas? Did Yanukovich or we send helicopters, planes, tanks and APCs to kill your Maidan protesters? Did we bomb your cities and laugh about it on TV?

      Neither Roman nor any other Lvov/Galician nationalist cannot answer this question. Why was it acceptable for Maidanists to take over government buildings and violently overthrow a government they viewed as illegitimate, but no one in Donbas had the right to copy the Maidanistas of Lvov and take over buildings in Donetsk or Lugansk to protest what they viewed as a NATO, EU backed ‘coup’ and illegitimate ‘junta’ government? Roman says the effort to extirpate Russian is a lie invented by Kremlin TV propagandists, but omits that the first idiotic move of the post-coup parliament after impeaching Yanukovich in an illegal vote under the eyes of baseball bat wielding Right Sector thugs was to abolish the official status of Russian (the language of the majority of the population spoken even by fanatical Ukie politicians like Tymoshenko or Yarosh at home) as a co-equal language with Ukrainian. Roman insists the Maidan uprising was purely home grown and nothing to do with McCain, Nuland, CIA/State Dept., Soros, the NED or the International Republican Institute, while everyone who took up arms against Kiev did so only after the GRU/SVR paid them to do so. He cannot imagine that thousands eagerly volunteered to fight the Ukrainian army after they saw it shoot people for fun in Mariupol, or Right Sector laugh and joke as people burned alive in Odessa, or the shells fall on their towns and cities. He like other Lvov Galician fanatics simply has no empathy for the people of Donbas or ability understand how any sane person could possibly wish to break away from a bankrupt, falling apart country that has survived on cheap Russian gas and now subsists on IMF handouts to join Russia. He thinks Lvov lives large when the average Lvov salary is something like one third of Moscow and half of St. Petersburg levels. Irrespective of whether Russia is ‘less free’ than Ukraine (and I would argue it’s a wash considering you can’t have an anti-ATO protest in Kharkov or Kherson without Right Sector tough guys showing up to beat anti-Kiev pensioners), Russia sure as hell offers its people a higher standard of living than bankrupt Ukraine.

  8. Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

    >Your family guards that wall, my family guards this wall, inside will we have a market with property rights.

    Your family may organize resources within your walls however you like. What’s it to me? I only want you to enforce your norms only within your walls, to permit any member of your family to leave at will and to surrender resources if your membership falls so low that you can no longer make sufficient, productive use of the resources. I would not impose any other rules upon you, but I will not call your community “libertarian” if you violate these rules.

    >If people attempt to breech our walls, we will kill them.

    Why you would kill potential invaders as a first resort? What does your community gain by this warrior mentality? I rather expect communities to defend their standards with the least costly force available and to join forces with neighboring communities for this purpose, and I expect free communities to turn a jaundiced eye on a community killing anyone attempting to enter without the proper consent.

    • It is easy for American libertarians who live under the bubble of the biggest military the world has ever known to solve the fake problem of imagining liberty on Crusoe’s Island, instead of solving the real problem of establishing liberty in a world full of aggressors.

      • Ah, yes, the “real problem of establishing liberty in a world full of aggressors,” by holding on as tightly as possible to the “history, culture, social norms, genetics (sic)” which have historically always given rise to, and empowered, those aggressors.

        • “as tightly as possible” are your words, not mine.

          It’s no coincidence that an-caps favorite example of decentralized competitive “anarchist” security is from Iceland — an Island inhabited by homogeneous population.

          The ocean substitutes for violence against aggressors, the cultural homogeneity and kinship precludes many forms of free riding.

      • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

        My state is surrounded by the most egregious aggressors known to man — in all mankind’s history.

        Yet I am free. For now.

        But there is a reason for that. I see dangerously armed bandits in costume with badges in the same light as I regard rattlesnakes. The advantage I have with a snake is the fact that a rattlesnake knows he’s a snake. But he respects no “property ‘rights'” — same as “policemen”.

        I once made the statement at another forum that I am not free to walk barefoot in the woods. A dear cyber friend contradicted me: “you ARE free to walk barefoot in the woods”… I had to remind him that he still maintained a statist vestige — his perception remains in the idea that freedom is what comes from that monopoly of psychopaths who claim “jurisdiction”. To me freedom is the avoidance of snakebite.

        Of course I always believe a man with a loaded firearm.

        Sam

      • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

        I strongly urge you to read this.

        If you find it difficult to read past the opening paragraph you should probably go back to Ukraine or Crimea or whatever they’re calling those particles of land nowadays (depending upon which group of murderers has prevailed and set up “jurisdiction” once the bodies were removed).

        Fight to your heart’s content.

        Sam

      • No OneNo Gravatar says:

        And what about the problem of Donbas people establishing their liberty from a government they (with plenty of justification) believe is dominated by either Washington/Brussels puppets or Galician fanatics who hate them and their Russian identity?

        • I am for secession as a principle. Somewhere in my twitter history you’ll find my approval of Donbas seceding, but that was before I realized the majority of people there want to remain with Ukraine. They’ve just been beaten, kidnapped, tortured and murdered into silence.

          As for the “Russian identity” of Ukrainians. HA! That’s ridiculous, and supports my long-standing observation that Russia is a state seeking legitimacy through the establishment of a culture. Ukraine, on the other hand, is a culture seeking legitimacy through statehood.

          Everybody known that Moscow (as a political entity) was establish by Mongols to rule over Finno Ugric (not slavic) tribes. They conquered the surrounding Slavs and many others as well. It wasn’t until 1721 that Tsar Peter of Muskovy decided to call all the conquered people “Russian”. Stealing the name from the ancient Kievan-Rus kingdom that pre-dated Moscow by 300 years.

          Both Tsar Peter and Tsarina Catherine (who was German) had committees rewriting history to change the Muskovites from Finno-Ugric-Mongolian conquers to Slavs who finally overcame the “Mongolian yoke” and united with their brother slavs. Of course none of these people whom they call brother want such a union, and much blood has been shed trying to resist it.

          A lot of Ukrainian poetry deals with this idea of stolen identity: “What are these Muskovites looking for in our torn open graves.”

          Links for the curious:

          http://romaninukraine.com/muskovy-lies-about-history-and-the-inve nted-russian-people/
          http://romaninukraine.com/how-moscow-hijacked-the-history-of-kyiv an-rus/
          http://romaninukraine.com/great-article-on-russias-long-battle-wi th-ukrainian-history/

          • No OneNo Gravatar says:

            Your Galicia has jack all to do with Kyiven Rus except for Orthodox Christianity, which Uniate Galicians under the Vatican’s tutelage have been trying to wipe out or totally nationalize for centuries. Your ancestors were Ruthenians or Bessarbians who got brainwashed by the Hapsburgs into turning the Poltavan Cossack identity of old central Ukraiana the borderlands of the Russian Empire once conquered by the Catholic Polish-Lithuanian empire into something rabidly anti-Russia.

            I refuse to give a bunch of Galicians the right to Galicianize and rabidly anti-Russianize Ukrainian identity and history. The greatest mistake Russia made since Ukrainian independence was doing nothing to fight the avalanche of USAID/NED and Ukie Diaspora from Canada money spent on brainwashing Ukrainians into hating Russians and ‘Galicianizing/Banderizing’ their history and identity.

            Someday the Hungarians and their Ruthenian Rus allies will toss your corrupt junta out on its ass. I hope that day comes faster when the dollar collapses and there’s no more free IMF money for Kiev. On that day when your Bandera Nazis try to brutally ‘separatist’ Maidan-style protests in ways Yanukovich never attempted I hope Urban’s successor sends plenty of guns that ‘fell of the Hungarian army truck’. When petrodollar hegemony goes so goes the project of a rabidly anti-Russian Ukraine. Your Nazi bastards will be lucky to hang on to Odessa by the skin of their teeth, and hopefully every single Nazi Right Sector thug who participated in that atrocity and others including the murder of policemen in Mariupol is hunted down and shot in the face — just like the Mossad did to Nazi war criminals decades after WWII.

      • Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

        Solving the imaginary problem of liberty on Crusoe’s Island is a game that anyone may play. Solving the real problem of establishing liberty around the world, in a world full of aggressors, is a game that megalomaniacs play. I don’t play it, because I can’t possibly win it. I can only imagine winning it while refusing to imagine the harm I’d do by playing the game.

        On the other hand, again, if you want to fight for the state of your choice in Ukraine, I don’t expect to stop you, and I don’t support any policy of the United States to stop you. I neither support you nor oppose you, and I neither support nor oppose your enemies. I don’t believe that U.S. military might keeps central North America free either, quite the opposite. We were freer when we avoided entangling alliances in Europe and resisted the urge to seek monsters to destroy there. The more we’re dragged into the internecine struggles plaguing your part of the world, the less free we become.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        About living in a military bubble – that bubble covers half of the globe, including much of Middle East and Europe.

        Nulandistanians are living under a NATO bubble. Without NATO this violent conflict would not arise in the first place. There would not be any sanctions placed on Russia without America’s involvement.

        • Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

          If the bubble covering the Middle East is supposed to be insulate the region from either violence or totalitarianism, I haven’t noticed.

          • JohnNo Gravatar says:

            *A very good point*. NATO influence certainly spreads to the near East, but it is a total cluster-fuck.

            Israel benefits from NATO; I believe that Turkey does as well. Not sure if Saudi Arabia benefits from NATO or the other way around.

            Certainly, much of Europe’s security is provided by NATO and subsidized by the FED, the IMF.

            In a real free market it is hard to say how much more European countries would have to spend on their own security. Switzerland has not needed an army thus far, though if they vote in favor of gold standard in November, maybe they will be invaded next?

            Greece used to get a lot of pork from America while Soviet Union existed, but now it is not strategically important anymore but the old spending habits remained, so now it is on its way of becoming the asshole of Europe. I do not have any data to prove or disprove a point, but I wonder if Poland is playing the exact same game – getting used to all that dole.

            If yes, then Ukrainians would be wrong to look to Poland as an example of miracle transformation.

  9. Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

    Roman:

    “…social norms exist…”

    I intended to include the quotation from your post regarding “social norms” in my response where I linked “Insanity as the Social Norm“.

    Sam

    • Sam, since you asked me twice, I read that long (long, long, long) study about social norms, albeit quickly. I want my 15 minutes back. 🙂

      Forgive my harshness, but it seems to be a repetition of libertarian gospel and speculation about psychology written in self-conscious, self-referential, stilted prose.

      He never does something as simple as defining social norms. I don’t know how to begin with someone who claims social norms don’t exist. Cultures behave very differently from one another. There are standards of behaviors. Albert Jay Nock, writing in the 30s, called it “the court of taste and good manners” and lamented how it was replaced to such an extent by the incompetent government court. (see my book review: http://dailyanarchist.com/2014/01/25/book-review-aj-nocks-memoirs  /).

      • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

        Carl Sagan is quoted, “…you can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep seated need to believe…”

        My quest is to steadily check my premises: am I in agreement with someone or something because it fits the boilerplate of my “ism(‘s)” — my chosen beliefs? Or am I willing to examine a thing logically and realistically — regardless of what I choose to “believe”? Not an easy assignment for any of us, although I can only speak for me.

        I see myself as anarchist (<==PDF) through and through. Call it an addiction if you like. It appears to be in my blood. Therefore, it is almost impossible for me to truly empathize with non-anarchist views, try as I might.

        Understand, yes. Empathize, no.

        That said, I stumbled upon Delmar England's work about the time he died. He appeared to have no "following" amongst professing libertarians. He wrote Insanity as the Social Norm, then up and died without acclaim (certainly without praise from “anarchists” or “libertarians” [quotes intended for emphasis]). Because for “anarcho-libertarians” (my new term) he chips the noses off faces of their idols in his very opening paragraph.

        So it’s not surprising to me that you failed to see England’s definition of “social norms”. Because to him (and me) insanity IS the social norm. That’s the gist of his presentation. All anti-individualist writing and speaking (“…Russia said thus-and-such; China responded with this-or-that…”) augments the insanity and opens the door to combat. It licenses perpetrators to conceal their individual behaviors. It allows psychopaths to hide under the umbrella of mindless abstractions.

        Sam

  10. John ClarkNo Gravatar says:

    “The man facing down Putin’s aggression as secretary of the Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council is Andriy Parubiy. He oversees national security for the nation having previously served as security commandant during the anti-government protests in Kiev.

    Parubiy was the founder of the Social National Party of Ukraine, a fascist party styled on Hitler’s Nazis, with membership restricted to ethnic Ukrainians.”

    more at http://www.channel4.com/news/svoboda-ministers-ukraine-new-govern ment-far-right

    And what about the neo-Nazis in Ukraine burning people alive in Odessa?

    See http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27259620

    And, Victoria Nuland, admitting billions have been spent to undermine the elected government in Ukraine,

    “Since Ukraine’s independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations. We’ve invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine.”

    More at http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/2013/dec/218804.htm

    If Ukraine could secede from the U.S.S.R., then Crimea can secede from Ukraine, and any other part of Ukraine could secede with a majority vote, or any other part of any country, for instance Venice, Scotland, Catalonia, Texas, should then be able to secede from the current country that that region is a part of.

    And, what was the first law the coup government in Ukraine passed, to stop the use of the Russian language, a law designed to agitate Russian-speaking people in Ukraine.

    Related story from Radio Free Europe,

    “April 16, 2004

    Language is a sensitive subject in Ukraine, which has a large ethnic Russian population and where even native Ukrainians often prefer speaking Russian over Ukrainian. RFE/RL correspondent Askold Krushelnycky reports on a controversial new regulation set to increase the use of the Ukrainian language in the country’s broadcasting.

    Prague, 16 April 2004 (RFE/RL) — Ukraine’s broadcasting regulators this week (15 April) introduced a requirement making it mandatory for national television and radio broadcasters to use the Ukrainian language.”

    See http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1052346.html

    The leader of Right Sector, Dmytro Yarosh, which is one of the neo-Nazi parties in Ukraine,

    “A leading figure in the Right Sector, Andriy Tarasenko, says it aims not for closer ties with Europe but rather to “build a nationalist Ukrainian state and stage a nationalist revolution”.

    Dmytro Yarosh calls himself a follower of Stepan Bandera, a nationalist leader who fought Polish and Soviet rule in the 1930s and 1940s but is seen in Russia and eastern Ukraine as a Nazi collaborator.”

    See http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27173857

    And a link to a declassified CIA document about U.S. government cooperation with Ukrainian who collaborated with the Nazis, similar to today’s U.S. government collaboration with the Ukrainian neo-Nazis from Right Sector and Svoboda.

    “[UPDATE2: We have come across a pamphlet issued by the National Archives on 10 December 2010 to accompany the release of the cache of declassified CIA documents we present here. The pamphlet, entitled: “Hitler’s Shadow: Nazi War Criminals, U.S. Intelligence and the Cold War” was written by Richard Breitman and Norman J.W. Goda; it is an indispensable explanatory guide to the documents you will read here. You will find the chapter on the CIA’s use of Ukrainian fascists in Chapter 5, page 81 – IWPCHI]

    We are pleased to present to our readers a documentary proof of the US Government’s successful efforts to help Nazi collaborator Ukrainian fascist Stefan Bandera avoid capture by the Soviet Union at the end of World War II.”

    See http://iwpchi.wordpress.com/2014/03/06/from-the-files-of-the-cia- how-us-spies-helped-ukrainian-fascist-stefan-bandera-to-escape-pr osecution-as-wwii-war-criminal/

    The U.S. government should not be interfering in the internal affairs of any other country,

    “… Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none…”

    Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1801.

    See http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/jefinau1.asp

    • Briefly,

      What ended as a fire in Odesa began with Russian assaulting a pro-Ukrainian march (with guns). A repeat of what happened to pro-Ukrainian marches in Donetsk and Kharkiv where pro-Ukrainian demonstrators were killed.

      Russia has been accusing every country they border of Nazism for 70 years. I address this nonsense in great detail in my previous essay, Putin’s libertarianism.

      The Russian language thing never became a law, and it would have only reverted the official status of the Russian language to what it was in 2010. It’s a non issue, and Russian schools, business and everything else functioned completely normally both before and after 2010. By contrast, in Russia, Ukrainian storybooks even get removed from libraries.

      For anyone watching, Russian has a huge army of professional propagandists who’ve been mobilized over the Ukraine crisis. They bury the world in bullshit: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/the-krem lins-troll-army/375932/

      • No OneNo Gravatar says:

        Roman,

        Your statement about Odessa is a flat out lie. The ‘pro Russians’ who attacked the pro-Ukraine march to create a pretext for a pre-planned progrom by Parubiy, Avakov and Kholomoisky’s agents were Right Sector thugs wearing St. George’s ribbons and red armbands. Look at the video evidence here, you see the same fatass Right Sector thug who was allegedly shooting at a pro-Ukraine crowd firing a pistol into the Trades Union Building later. Why would a real pro-Russian activist or provocateur shoot at pro-Ukrainians and later shoot at anti-Kiev activists trapped inside the burning building? It was a false flag operation in the same tradition as the sniper killings on Maidan that Ashton was told by the Estonian Ambassador may have been organized by the pro-Maidan elements. In both cases who benefitted? The Maidan had its ‘heavenly hundred’ martyrs shot with the same bullets as what hit Berkut riot policemen, and the PEACEFUL, anti-Kiev demonstrations by the ‘Coloradoes’ stopped immediately in the aftermath of a state-sponsored act of terror/progrom against pro-Russia and anti-Svidomite groups in Odessa:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4dJRnI-X8Q

        “For anyone watching, Russian has a huge army of professional propagandists who’ve been mobilized over the Ukraine crisis.” Get real, Nuland gloated about spending $5 billion on brainwashing Ukrainians into the NATO/US/EU camp since 1991 last year. That’s just the tip of the iceberg compared to all the Soros and Ukrainian Svidomite Diaspora money spent to make Ukrainians hate Russians. There is a massive army of US government paid trolls commenting under every article I see about Ukraine, as well as the EuroMaidanPR troll team which numbers in the hundreds if not thousands also paid with my tax money like the hacks at Hrodmatske TV. You know what Roman I wouldn’t detest Banderastan so much if it didn’t need to suck off the American and German taxpayer tit. Just stop taking our tax money and rot in your gas-cut off, broke ass Banderastan leaving everyone in Donbas who doesn’t want to be a part of it anymore the hell alone. You never answered my question of why it was ok for boys from Galicia to go murder and maim with shelling Donbas residents but the Donbas men didn’t have the right to respond to your holy Maidan uprising in Lvov by simply bombing or shelling the Right Sector occupied buildings and hunting every Right Sector Nazi SOB down with spetsnaz.

        • That video is ridiculous. Most of the police department (to the horror of Ukrainians) donned red armbands and supported the pro-Russians. They weren’t hiding the fact as this “secret footage” claims.

          This was widely reported to the horror of Ukrainians. The head of the Odesa police was quickly replaced after this incident.

          So the fact that police protected hooligans is not evidence of they were a false flag. It was basically a repeat of the violent crackdowns on pro-Ukraine protests in Donetsk and Kharkiv except this time (finally) the Ukrainians fought back.

          Sequence of events:

          – The members of football clubs “Metallist” (Kharkiv) and Chernomorec (Odesa) announce a march for the “Unity of Ukraine”, which is to take place at 15:00, starting on the Sobornaya Square, and ending near the football stadium “Chernomorec”;

          – 14:30: Pro-Russian activists gather near the Alexandrovskiy Prospectus. They wear marks, helmets and have shields, and are armed with sticks, bats and axes.

          – Pro-Russian activists start marching towards the Sobornaya Square, while police makes weak attempts at stopping them;

          – In the meantime, pro-Ukrainian activists are gathered on the Sobornaya Square. Having been warned about armed pro-Russian activists marching in this direction, self-defense of Maidan starts pulling up towards the Square from the side of Grecheskaya Street;

          – Clashes commence between the football fans and the pro-Russian activists as the latter reach the Sobornaya Square;

          – The street is covered in smoke. Police forms a 50 meters wide “neutral line” in between the pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian activists;

          – Both sides start pulling cobblestones out of the roads;

          – Pro-Russian activists start building barricades from trash containers and other nearby materials;

          – Activists from the Emergency Moto-Assistance (no political affiliation) arrive and block the entries to the Grecheskaya Street. Shops on the neighbouring streets are closing;

          – First casualties appear and ambulances start arriving;

          – Pro-Russian activists armed with bats and Ьolotov cocktails make an entry;

          – Pro-Russian activists start throwing Molotov cocktails. Police helps the pro-Russian activists by forming a “live shield” in front of them, who then start shooting from behind the policemen;

          – The police eventually withdraw.

          – The Pro-Russian were eventually routed and took shelter in the building. BOTH sides were throwing anything they could find at one another. Molotov cocktails were being thrown from the building as well as at it.

          – Corrupt Odesa police release all the Russian organizers of the assault. In the following days.

          Here’s footage of Ukrainian protesters saving the lives of people in the burning building: http://romaninukraine.com/ukrainians-saving-russian-invaders-in-o desa/

          There’s plenty of evidence Odesa was, like Donetsk and Kharkiv, a preplanned attack on a pro-Ukrainian demonstration: http://romaninukraine.com/recording-thug-organizing-trip-to-odesa -for-may-8/

          • JohnNo Gravatar says:

            Instead of linking back to your blog, can you link these videos directly here?

            Anyhow, here is the case for Odessa massacre being a deliberate provocation, where the red-banded people only pretended to be anti-Kiev, e.g. pro-Russian and started this mayhem.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4dJRnI-X8Q

            That explains a lot. Hard to blame an average Ukrainian for not noticing this, but once you get it, you will see a conspiracy to start a war.

            Similar thing happened in Mariupol. The National Guard that ventured there was told that the local police fired live ammo on a bunch of school children. That was a lie. Their real sin was not dispersing the demonstrations. What better date to pick for this mayhem than the Victory in Europe Day, which is a big date for Russians who have lost 20+ million in WW2.

  11. Alex KourNo Gravatar says:

    I agree with Roman completely.
    ( except his some anti-NAP misunderstandings)
    I am a Russian myself, was born and raised in Soviet Union, lived and worked in many parts of the Soviet Empire, including Ukraine and Crimea, and I know better than many American armchair libertarians.
    So
    First.
    A modern Russia is r-e-a-l-l-y ruled by Cheka-KGB ( now FSB), much more than in Soviet times. And not only Russia, but also its all former colonies, from Ukraine to Tajikistan. I talk to many Russian and Ukrainian real businessmen ( including ones from Donbas) and they all said that “our real masters”are Russian secret police. So, all blablabbing about “American puppets” is lie and propaganda. All former Ukrainian presidents, from Kravchuk to Yanukovich were Russian, not American puppets.
    Second.
    The best Russians are for Ukraine and against Putin’s policy. They are in the minority, but they are live and kicking. Real intellectuals and honest people. Many of them were “dissidents” in Soviet times, were prosecuted, banned, and even jailed. Now they are in the same position as 30 years ago, now they are “national-traitors” and “enemies of the Motherland”. But in 70’s and 80’s they at least had a support and sympathy of American libertarians, but now they are condemned and named “Nazis” and “CIA agents”. So nice.
    Third.
    Are you looking at Nazism in Ukraine? You’ve chosen a wrong place! Look at Russia, where Nazism and fascism is flourishing. As a Russian libertarian economist Yu. Kuznetsov says, “national-socialism is an official Russian ideology” Very true!
    I repeat myself, but I AM a Russian and I know what American armchair libertarians don’t want to know:
    there are regimes more fascist than the Russian one, but there are not more fascist population than modern Russians. The most xenophobic, nacionalistic, racist, State-warshipping people in the whole “civilized” World.
    I know it, thank you!
    Even in Soviet times Russians wasn’t so bad. Their attitude was ambivalence or cynicism. Dirty jokes about Soviet system and Soviet leaders were a common case, even small children knew them!
    Not any more.
    Now, the level of State idolatry and The Great Leader worshipping in Russia is unprecedented, even Germany or 30’s dwarfs..
    Forth.
    Many American libertarians don’t understand why Eastern Europeans are for N ATO. It’s absolutely not the same as EU! In the case of EU most of Eastern Europeans were quite sceptical, that referenda in Poland, Hungary, and Czechia confirmed. But not in the case of NATO! The bulk of people were and are for, in great majority. Why?
    Because they, – unlike American armchair libertarians, saved of real dangers with oceans and American military might,– understand perfectly, what Russian Empire is about.
    F.A.Hayek said that he’d prefer to live under Anglo-American fascism rather under any other fascism. He meant German fascism, of course. But he knew little about Russian fascism, that is a most fascistic fascism possible.
    A high time for Lew Rockwell, Ron Paul, Justin Raimondo, – all my very admired and cherished libertarians! – to learn something.

    • VanmindNo Gravatar says:

      This is as interesting as the originating article, thanks.

      This avatar has met more than a few Russians and all have been very nice people. Immigrants, of course, so they aren’t as programmed as those still clinging to Mother’s apron.

      Start a campaign in Ukraine/Russia/Everywhere to educate people about the actual definition of leader. The word is merely and only a temporal metaphor. There are no Great Men — or to use an easy-to-remember rhyming aphorism:

      “There are no such things as philosopher kings.”

    • No OneNo Gravatar says:

      I am an American Constitutionalist libertarian patriot who detests the new Banderastan and its pathetic, militarily and economically incompetent basket case of a government that is utterly dependent on international globalist socialist IMF handouts to survive:

      in response to the Russian libertarian’s claims, you sir have no idea how repressive the people you’re embracing in Ukraine are, and what plans they have for patriots like myself. They want to bankrupt and destroy the US and take our guns or have a whole bunch of their minions die trying. They are international socialists or global socialists, globalzis as I call them. Supporting jihadist and Nazi scum of the Earth in Syria and Ukraine is in these people’s DNA, their globalist predecessors supported all the Nazis who came over in Operation Paper clip after WWII. They have been plotting against the free enterprise system and our Constitutional liberties for decades since they established the Federal Reserve that has destroyed 97% of the dollar’s value, but you want me to support NATO and EU criminals who looted banks in Cyprus because…? Screw that. And screw your delusional Russian liberals too — the West they worship is rapidly becoming an anti-Christian tyranny where the NSA collects the electronic details of every single American. The every type of people you Russian liberals have started denigrating to show off for your CIA puppet masters like the gun owning, anti-intervention, Constitutionalist patriots are the only reason America hasn’t already had a Ukraine-style coup and fascist takeover.

      F–k Banderastan and f— Roman’s Galicia and its takeover/decades-long brainwashing of the formerly peaceful Poltavan Cossack borderlands.

    • Thanks, Alex. I know many Russians, both in Ukraine and in the US who tell me the same thing.

  12. FrankNo Gravatar says:

    A piece of agitprop trash IMHO.

    • VanmindNo Gravatar says:

      Yes, well the “fight to reclaim your property rights” stuff at the end is nonsense (Henrik Palmgren’s show is becoming more & more insipid that way lately), but the gist of the article, disseminated by way of analyzing the scripted Ukraine-Russia theater of bellicosity, is to debunk self-professed libertarians who claim that “anything against American interests is likely to be heroic.”

      By and large, of course, Americans remain good people, just like Russians and Ukrainians and so forth. Rights, however, do not exist.

  13. DomNo Gravatar says:

    Remind me again why anarchists have to choose between the Ukrainian government and the Russian government? Its not like the rebels are going to set up a free state if they win, so why do we care?

    • That a good question. There are two reasons:

      1. It should be alarming to libertarians that opinion makers in their community are consistently and obviously lying.

      It seems the decades-old networks of KGB influence in foreign media and dissenting political movements seems to be as active as ever.

      2. Ukraine is becoming freer. Trying to, anyway. The fight is for better property rights and better rule of law. Libertarians should support this.

      The Ukrainian perspective is simple. Ukrainians see a prosperous, law-abiding Poland with property rights (albeit imperfect ones) to the west and an oppressive, corrupt, murderous, impoverished, propaganda-saturated Russia to the east with much weaker property rights. If the FSB doesn’t like you, you’re done — beaten, killed, forgotten, whatever is necessary.

      The choice is a rational one, even given the debt and incompetence of the EU which many of my close friends so effectively criticize.

      I’ll make a comparison:

      Here is a detailed story about a woman who fled North Korea and found refuge in South Korea: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/1113849 6/Escape-from-North-Korea-How-I-escaped-horrors-of-life-under-Kim -Jong-il.html

      I want people to react to the Ukraine conflict much the way they react to her. Help. Or if help is too expensive / dangerous / impractical / undermining of self-reliance (as I’ve previously argued myself — http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/06/caught-between-e mpires-ukraine-can-t-rely-on-the-west-for-its-independence.html), offer an attaboy.

      Don’t talk about how angry you are that your tax dollars are going to defend South Korea. Don’t suggest that she’s a globalist stooge because South Korea’s government allows American military bases. These are ridiculous positions. Everyone here agrees with the criticism, but it’s not relevant.

      For Yeonmi Park, it’s not relevant that North Korea is acting as any tyrannical nuclear power trying to preserve its power might act. Rational is not moral.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        You like using tricks like these: bringing up an emotional anecdotal case of Yeonmi Park.

        There are a ton of problems and victims around the world. For some reason we only hear moral cases to be made about places with mineral deposits, carbohydrates, pipelines, gold, places that want to drop dollar from their trade, and places that are strategically useful to NATO otherwise.

        800,000+ refugees from Donbass entered Russia for protection. Yet it seems like a single colorful and emotional anecdote is all it takes to sway you in a particular direction.

        Two victims – a tragedy. 800k – a statistics?

        You are not a thinker. You are a feeler. Or, you count on your audience responding to emotions rather than facts and logic.

      • VanmindNo Gravatar says:

        No nationalist ever earns an attaboy.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Anarchists should cheer succession whenever possible. Crimea did not succeed in a true sense. It was absorbed by Russia. It would have been much better if Crimea became an independent country. Same is true of Donbas. It would be cool if it became an independent country, but IMF bankers and hunter Biden would not like that one bit.

      I see the world as a bunch of rival gangs. NATO on one side and Russia/China + BRICS + small change on the other.

      Ever since the fall of Hitler, Soviet Union and Mao, America + NATO has been the deadliest force. It has become a terrorist organization. From operation Gladio, Gladio B, to endless wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Lybia, ….
      At least half a million civilians died in Iraq and Fallujia is now a caner desert, thanks to a WMD called depleted uranium that is a crucial component of every anti-tank shell. The number of people killed by Russia/China is negligible comparing to the metastatic cancer named NATO. By the way, Roman was part of that rape machine, served in Afghanistan. Instead of taking the “don’t thank me for my service” attitude like the real anarchists like Adam Kokesh have done, Roman occasionally writes and gives what he calls “lectures” on what libertarianism is like from a military perspective. If an engineer gave a lecture titled “Calculus II from a perspective of a guy who shot 100+ live bullets at people”, you’d have a WTF reaction. Anyhow,

      Petrodollar is now on its last legs and Keynsian central bankers need a war, a terrorist attack, and Ebola epidemic – whatever they can create to cover an inevitable economic collapse. At the moment I root for Russia, China and BRICS to have the upper hand.

      Once the difference between one peso and one dollar is one peso, I will root for Putin’s regime to fall next. The most likely even will be energy revolution that makes carbohydrates unnecessary.

      At the moment I root against team, IMF, Nuland, Hunter Biden, Obama, Poroshenko, Zbignew Zbrgwdzdgzinski, Rotschields, etc.

      I will celebrate the death of a petrodollar as I would hope it would lead to less violence in the world and greater enlightenment. It took 100 years for people to realize that communism = fail. Keynsian economics is next. Statism will hopefully expire by year 2150.

      Death of a petrodollar will be yet another step toward a free society.

      • Martin BrockNo Gravatar says:

        Collapse of the petrodollar won’t be pleasant for many people in central North America (including me), in the short run, but I’m definitely with you.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          I am in the US. I can survive something like Post-Soviet collapse. Anything much worse than that and I will either fell or check out.

          I can deal with 1000% inflation. I just want water, electricity, internet, some food and shelter.

          Anyhow, since it is coming anyway, the sooner it does, the better. The only reason to mourn is if the fascist statist actually manage to blame the whole thing on an external/internal enemy, and/or start a nuclear war.

  14. DNo Gravatar says:

    Yall kill me with all your conspiracy theories. Russia is a shittier place to live than america, freedom wise and economically. I guess georgia crimea and chechnya dont count? Also where are you getting this figure of 500,000 dead civilians? Thats a ridiculous number. Yes nato does bad things, but its not as coordinated as yall think it is. If you are going to start comparing evil forces in the world then start with daesh. No place in the world has a libertarian, anarcho capitalist movement like america does, nobody. So keep that in consideration when you are ranking bad guys. And be realistic about what governments are capable of. Do you know how hard it is to keep a secret in these government organizations? They couldnt even keep those seals quiet who killed bin laden! Nobody keeps secrets. Additionally, if government was so efficient that they could pull these massive projects off then i wouldnt even be mad, i would be impressed. But the fact is that governments are inefficient, there is no way they could coordinate all of these things they are being accused of, they arent that good. And lastly we have to stop talking about governments and large beaurocracies as if they had one mind. Its silly. Government is just a bunch of people looking out for themselves, trying to climb that ladder and throwing everyone else under the bus. All this stuff makes libertarians look silly. We will never get anywhere by jumping into these unneccesary rabbit holes. This lew rockwell, jesse ventura bullshit is why people look at us funny.

  15. So, let’s recap where we’re at:

    Under the guise of criticizing American libertarians as being in the tank for Vladimir Putin — obviously a real problem if true — Roman Skaskiw tricked a legitimate anarchist site into running a bunch of nationalist/”national anarchist” crapola.

    Does that about cover it?

  16. John,

    I don’t know of any plainer words I could use.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      All right, allow me to re-phrase – what do the pure & worthy anarchists talk about when the lights go out?
      Slashdotters often have a similar, off-topic complaint but how do you define what is strictly relevant?
      You know, you opened a thread with a self-describing title, so you likely did not read this by mistake.

      I find a couple of his posts partially wrong but fascinating. I have to figure him out. He was accepted into Stanford Engineering program.
      I was not and instead opted for a state school. He looks smart on paper but also tends to commit some serious logical errors. All in my opinion of course, but this post will have my name on it, so “in my opinion” is sort of implicit.

      He is by no means dumb – educated, with a Masters degree, a business owner, a speaker, an author, etc.
      How does a brain like that short-circuit? The curious case of Roman Skaskiw keeps me awake at night.

      • VanmindNo Gravatar says:

        Well, degrees from “accredited” institutions are no indication of intelligence. Indeed, any childhood spent clamoring to please bureaucrats within a Prussian system of obedience and non-thinking carries with it an automatic stigma of lower intelligence.

        “How did you get accepted into that oh-so prestigious graduate school?”
        “I was just following orders.”

        • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

          Those who find themselves impressed with academe should read this.

          Just because it appeared on the Lew Rockwell page does not automatically cancel the validity of Dr. North’s observation.

          Sam

          • JohnNo Gravatar says:

            Fraud is much harder to pull of in a hard science like engineering.

            That said, biotech or “climate” are fuzzy enough areas where bullshit and fraud thrives.

            Economics … lol.

            Guys and gals who for example build bridges, cars, design circuits, write software, manage a chemical factory or build a nuclear reactor are or at least ought to be treated differently than the fokers whose stuff does not necessarily have to work well and to spec – or they get fired.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Well, most inventions/creations/discoveries these days are made by those with some sort of college degree. Not that these people would probably be as productive as if they did not go to college, but college admission for those who bothered to apply is some sort of measure of basic intelligence. I am biased toward people like engineers, doctors and scientists (though many doctors just suck at what they do). Not that other professions like teachers or news reporters are not important, but they do not get to deal with the causality and reality the way engineers and scientists do, or at least ought to do. Airplanes would fall, atom collides would explode, dams would break and nuclear reactors would leak routinely if engineers and scientists did not know what the hell they were doing, if they could invent their own versions of reality and ignore the truth.

          Economics is not a science, Creative writers or musicians do not necessarily need to be able to think logically.
          If Roman was a self-styled prophet, and was married to his pet cow, then I would not have any discussions with him. I would not know where to begin to argue, what we can even agree on.
          Now, Roman got accepted into and graduated from an Engineering program at a reputable university. Most of his classmates went on to create useful stuff do work that requires dealing with cold facts, He is at least a science groupie – he likes the robotic cheetah that was developed at MIT. He is proud of a young Ukrainian chess player who whopped everybody else’s ass. Ludwig von Mises is still his hero. He seems to celebrate at least some intellectual accomplishments while ostensibly having learned the tools to deal with real world as it is.

          Well, there is always a chance that he got accepted due to his ability to market himself via an admission essay and then cheated on exams to get all the way through. Maybe military forces schools to accept some percentage of veterans, or else why would so many people enlist? But he was exposed to Reason! He was shown a wonderful world where truth is either verifiable, testable or deducible, etc., a world with few stereotypes and superstitions, or at least I hope this is what Stanford was like.

          • VanmindNo Gravatar says:

            One of the NWO’s greatest achievements over the centuries has been to dumb people down by tricking them into the false belief that dialectical programming is more important than grammarian comprehension — actual school-to-work caste fraud at fabricated monstrosities called “universities” that feature “Ph.D” syndicates.

            The Doctor provides details by way of third-party historical scholarship.

            • JohnNo Gravatar says:

              Thanks. My impressions on this read:

              Premise: in my mind the existence of NWO is pretty plausible, so let’s suppose that it is very organized and real. My impression of the article: not bad, but parts of it confused me. I failed to understand who the grammarians and dialecticians truly are and what the difference is. I tried to look up definitions, but it has not helped. I wish there were some examples.

              I do not want to go very deep into philosophy. The problem with a lot of older philosophy is that it is not very rigorous, often contradicting to what some other guy said. Math used to be very messy too, but then mathematicians really cleaned it up. What we see today is very neat. Some theorems bear their author’s names, but ultimately it does not really matter who discovered what. Remove all references to a mathematician but keep all of his correct work, and no real damage was done. Not so with philosophy. History – who said what when becomes very important. I have not read Ayn Rand, but from what I heard about objectivism from sane people, my view would be compatible – e.g. reality exists independent of our image of it and we ought to strive to see reality for what it is as clearly as possible, scientific method be our hammer.

              The comparison between schools and military is great!

              Stefan Moleneux discussed two types of insanity in one of his videos (cannot find it now)
              – the kind where a farmer would try to milk a chicken or think that stones are potatoes. This sort of insanity sticks out like a sore thumb. A big deal is made of it. Why? Because this farmer is of no use to his lord. He will produce no tax revenue, he is useless.
              – Then there is a different kind of insanity, where people believe in the legitimacy of government, go to war against inanimate objects, tactics or adjectives, practice some funny rituals without asking questions. Those are behaviors of useful idiots. They serve a purpose. So the rulers pretend that these guys are sane and rational.

              I liked his angle. Seems like the article that you linked makes a similar point.

              All right, sorry but I cannot finish reading this without some clear definitions. I am wasting my time, not knowing exactly what the two types are. For now I stopped at “Marshall McLuhan knew what was going on, even while he himself was still a student.”

              • VanmindNo Gravatar says:

                This avatar read it as meaning that McLuhan, even while still at Cambridge, understood the ancient agenda whereby certain bloodline crime syndicates have been attempting a dialectical usurpation of the trivium in order to leave the majority without recourse to any kind of education other than handbooks and permission slips.

                “More math and science at school” translates to “Dumb ’em down.” Universities are one of the NWO’s main tools of enslavement, not centers of epistemological discourse but rather centers of vocational guild initiation.

                • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                  “More math and science at school” translates to “Dumb ‘em down.” Universities are one of the NWO’s main tools of enslavement, not centers of epistemological discourse but rather centers of vocational guild initiation.

                  Hm, I do not buy that. Mere fact of studying science does not make one a tool. One can say that cars are part of NWO agenda because they force you to focus on fixing and maintaining them rather than overthrowing your government.

                  I mean, the entire alternative media is a PsyOp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgHO15Bb58

                  From the rules of debate: http://homepage.ntu.edu.tw/~karchung/debate1.htm

                  5. He who asserts must prove. In order to establish an assertion, the team must support it with enough evidence and logic to convince an intelligent but previously uninformed person that it is more reasonable to believe the assertion than to disbelieve it. Facts must be accurate. Visual materials are permissible, and once introduced, they become available for the opponents’ use if desired.

                  • VanmindNo Gravatar says:

                    Ah, but this avatar didn’t suggest that studying science makes one a dumbed down tool. This avatar suggested that pretending NWO institutions of fraud called universities are the place to study science (or much else) suggests that one reached dumbed down tool status before ever matriculating.

                    NWO programming starts as soon as each of us is old enough to understand words. By university age, the typical Everyman is already a dyed-in-the-wool tool.

                    Here’s what Thomas Carlyle had to say back in the 1830s regarding universities.

                    Had you, any where in Crim Tartary, walled in a square enclosure; furnished it with a small, ill-chosen Library; and then turned loose into it eleven hundred Christian striplings, to tumble about as they listed, from three to seven years; certain persons, under the title of Professors, being stationed at the gates, to declare aloud that it was a University, and exact considerable admission fees, — you had, not indeed in mechanical structure, yet in spirit and result, some imperfect resemblance of our High Seminary. I say, imperfect; for if our mechanical structure was quite other, so neither was our result altogether the same: unhappily, we were not in Crim Tartary, but in a corrupt European city, full of smoke and sin; moreover, in the middle of a Public, which, without far costlier apparatus, than that of the Square Enclosure, and Declaration aloud, you could not be sure of gulling.

                    That’s what the “modern” education system is all about: defrauding the gullible (or more accurately: defrauding the gullible into browbeating their children into remaining tools well beyond adolescence).

                    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                      At times I am having hard time understanding you for some reason.

                      Problems with universities:
                      * they cost too freaking much.
                      * liberal agenda is being pushed in an intro English class
                      * overall liberal professors.
                      * textbooks cost too much and are artificially outdated every few years. I mean, Calculus 2 has not changed that much in the last 50 years.

                      Big advantage over high school – you get a lot of choice of where to go. If one of them is an NWO hell, then surely you can choose another. Correct me on this one, would you? Your choice of high schools are very much locked down by your zip code, unless you pay twice to go to a private one.

                      Finally, I have taken a bunch of science classes at my university. There is no politics behind physics, math, chemistry. I remember one professor in my 4 years once brought up George Bush for 15 minutes to do a math example. Other than that, it was all business. You can examine textbooks yourself. You can even watch some MIT lectures online as well as lectures at other universities and decide for yourself. Take your pick:

                      http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/find-by-department/

                      For example,

                      http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-01sc-single-variable-ca lculus-fall-2010/1.-differentiation/part-a-definition-and-basic-r ules/session-1-introduction-to-derivatives/

  17. John,

    You seem to be hung up on some idea of “on topic” or “off topic.” I never suggested that Roman is “off topic.” I suggested that he is “in error.” There’s a difference.

    The error is this: Under the guise of criticizing some libertarians/anarchists for siding with one version of nationalism, he counterposes his own version of nationalism as if nationalism itself was compatible with libertarianism/anarchism. It isn’t.

    If there are any such thing as “Putin’s libertarians” (which I doubt — I certainly haven’t met any) they are not “in error while Roman Skaskiw is correct.” They are “in error just like Roman Skaskiw.”

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Fair enough, I freakin hate nationalism myself.Why so emotional, why hate it rather than call it invalid? Because it ends up killing, damaging and oppressing a lot of people. People being wrong only truly bother me to the extent that they can take those believes and add a bunch of guns to the mix, while rationalizing their behavior.

      It is hard to accuse US libertarians that they support Putin out of nationalism; I think it is more the case of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”. James Corbett has a video titled “The Enemy of My Enemy” with tags #TeamObama and #TeamPutin.

      Actually, I am not convinced that nationalism is not compatible with libertarianism. Libertarians are still statists, so patriotism certainly can be part of it. Suppose US turned 100% libertarian. I can see a bunch of people making comments like America is exceptional, it starts with an A and ends with an A. Russia only ends with an A. Silly, but not a crime and it is possible to still live by all of the libertarian principles.

      And then, I do not know how clear is the divide between patriotism and nationalism. 100 neighbors are free to worship and erect a statue of Mao on their own territory, I believe both under libertarianism and anarchism.

      Some silly things like some group of people giving itself a name, and believing that they are better than others is certainly anti-intellectual, but it may not be incompatible with min/anarchism. These people could be tolerated by neighbors; they just might need to work harder to pay their bills due to the fact that some people do not want to transact with them.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Thomas, would you please point out the exact phrases that Roman used which make you think that Roman supports or argues for nationalism. I am sort of with you; it is an overall picture that I get from Romans postings on this side and others. You write with confidence, so I would like to hopefully learn something from you. That old “whoever asserts must prove” rule of debate …

      • This essay is probably my clearest case for nationalism: http://mises.org/daily/5830/

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Ok, but this link was not even referenced in this article; it is hard to imagine that Thomas decided to read every article ever created by you on the internet. Still, nationalism remains undefined on this post. People refer to it, it means different things to different people. The word nationalism does not appear till footnote #10.

          I still do not know what ya’ll are talking about when you refer to nationalism. Nothing concrete, just a bunch of fluff. Would love to hear from your critics as well.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          I still have no clear definition of nationalism to work with, but from what I understand, being proud of achievements of someone who is allegedly somewhat genetically similar to you, and lives beyond a certain line (for instance, why is Lviv part of Ukraine and not Poland) is just as silly as taking credit for the athletic achievements of a handful of guys who have absolutely no relationship to you other than living in the same geographical area as you (at the moment).

          NHL players here in the US all sing an American anthem before a game. Why the stupid loyalty to a colored piece of cloth? They are mostly Canadians anyway. The only lyrics of their song should be: “I like Canada, but prefer higher temperature and lower taxes.”

          Sports fandom leads to dumb things like these:

          http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/6185-the-giants-won-and-the -mission-lost

          Nationalistic pride/self-association has often historically resulted in massive ethnic cleansing.

          From genetics point of view, there is absolutely no such thing as pure blood. People have inter-fucked with different races for thousands of years. What is the real difference between a Russian and Ukrainian, between a Ukrainian and a Pole? Apparently people of two different nationalities can be born 100 feet apart, each in their own country, but are they different? Is Strasoburg really a French city, or is it German?

          http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/ukrainians.html

          Here are some maps:

          http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26792-Ukraine-s-genetics

          Multi-layered genetic maps do not respect the artificial borders.

          Here are lots of genetic maps for Ukraine consolidated into a 6m video:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsktPUsqOig

          For someone who tries to be a Ukrainian so hard, I have bad news for you – you are not blond, therefore not a real Ukrainian.

          But I would not lose sleep over it, for national identity is bullshit anyway. We are all just a bunch of stupid monkeys with iPhones, looking for a reason to feel special.

  18. So in these comments, all the old Kremlin talking points are resurrected.

    I make the case against Ukraine’s revolution being the work of western-back intrigue pretty exhaustively in my last essay “Putin’s Libertarians.” — http://dailyanarchist.com/2014/04/10/putins-libertarians/

    It addresses the $5 billion spent by the United States in Ukraine since 1991 (ie – in the last 23 years).

    Politifact concluded a connection between that money and the protests is a “distortion.”

    Anyway. Here’s further evidence the US wasn’t actively trying to build Ukraine as a foil against Russia: American politicians, including then Senator Obama helped destroy Ukraine’s stockpiles of weapons and ammo: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573557/Flashback-Senator -Obama-pushed-destruction-15-000-TONS-ammunition-400-000-small-ar ms-1-000-anti-aircraft-missiles-Ukraine.html

    • DNo Gravatar says:

      Im starting to see that they want conspiracies to exist. Not because it proves the validity of anarcho capitalism, but because it makes the world more interesting. Just like people want aliens, big foot and the lochness monster to exist because if they did it would be fascinating. I think im done with this site. I habe several friends who are ancapists but they were all in the military. They are much more rational people because they actually know what the rest of the world is like. They also understand how incompetent government is and hiw incapable they are of pulling off the massive schemes. Its absurd. Our ideas stand on their own, we dont have to go down the road of claiming that states do all these bad things but its all a theory. We should stick to the things we know government is screwing up, there are so many solid, concrete examples. We will never be taken seriously by the mainstream because of these people.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        D, have you followed even a single link?

        • DNo Gravatar says:

          Unfortunately i did, and i will never get that time back…

          • JohnNo Gravatar says:

            I worked for a large company. It had a fuck-up on top of a fuck-up. One thing that it did get right 100% was lobbying because that guaranteed its monopoly. Being mostly incompetent an entity can still survive if it cares about most important avenue to self-preservation. Your top-down logic has a problem – you cannot imagine government pulling things off, therefore it is bogus. Starting with lots of actual facts and then letting the big picture emerge would be a scientific approach. Yours is that of a philosopher.

            “We will never be taken seriously by the mainstream because of these people.”

            Suffer from conformity much?

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Hitler liked kittens. Therefore all kitten lovers are Nazis.
      Roman, have you ever taken a class in logic while in college?

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Tired of this Kremlin troll shit. 50% of Americans believe at least one conspiracy theory. What are the odds that I am one of them? Again, you accuse me of being a Kremlin troll in order to have me spend my energy on defending myself that I am not crazy instead of debating facts using logic. Certainly I cannot move your opinion but I will affect other readers.
        http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/half-americans- believe-least-one-conspiracy-theory-78613/

        • DNo Gravatar says:

          And over 99% of people dont believe anarchy would work. Im not basing my stance on what americans believe. These are the same people who made kim kardashian a multi millionaire and gave us barack obama. The more people you convince the further away we get from ever being truly free. So keep peddling these ideas that make us look crazy. Like i said before, we have enough evidence that government is bad without bringing up all this tom clancy, unrealistic hollywood bullshit.

          • JohnNo Gravatar says:

            That reply was not to you. It was to Roman, who thinks that he has a proof that I work for Kremlin, being awake at crazy hours. Alex Jones and Matt Drudge started spreading their message way before Putin became a president, a decade before RT was launched. He is trying to create an association, and then turn that correlation into causation. And he got his engineering degree from Stanford? How? I thought statistics was mandatory.

            Stop telling me what to do, you pseudo-anarchist. I will not follow your orders.
            And using words such as “we” and “us” makes me suspicious of your ability to think independently. Those words always raise an alarm with me.

            Showing the world that almost everyone at the top is a sociopath who does not give a shit about millions of lives should be an excellent way to snap people out of statism. More light should be given to actual conspiracies, not less.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Regarding what Senator Obama did way back then – first of all, he did so circa 2005. Secondly, he is a professional politician. Thirdly, their supposed concern was that Ukraine would sell these arms elsewhere in the middle East, a move that may have made it difficult for Bush to operate. Easter European/Russian AKs are very popular in the Middle East. It could easily have been a cash for guns program.

      Most politicians are calculating flip-flopers. I can find a ton of examples of that, in most countries I bet. The thing is that quality research takes time and I do not have too much of it to spare.

      As Ron Paul pointed out, a “peace” president tends wins the race.

      This is why Obama was skillfully lying his face off about peace before the election:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq7hS5Fn5KE
      The peace Nobel prize winner bombed 6 different countries in 6 years.

      This is why George Bush Jr lied his face of about not nation building:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9SOVzMV2bc
      Exit strategy. What a genocidal piece of shit!

      Motherfucking dirty fucking politicians. I do not know Ukrainian, but I bet Poroshenko has made a number of great speeches that he has since forgotten about.

      Now, let’s combine these two quotes:

      “Ukraine exported more than 700,000 small arms in 2004-2007, including 101,000 each to Libya and the UK, and 260,000 to the U.S.”

      “Vast stocks of conventional munitions and military supplies have accumulated in Ukraine,’ Obama said in am August 30, 2005 statement from Donetsk. ‘Some of this stockpile dates from World War I and II, yet most dates from Cold War buildup and the stocks left behind by Soviet withdrawals from East Germany, the Czech Republic, Hungry and Poland.’
      ‘We need to eliminate these stockpiles for the safety of the Ukrainian people and people around world, by keeping them out of conflicts around the world.”

      It seems pretty obvious to me that these weapons were due for export and US has prevented that. Not out of kindness of their hearts or because they cared about reducing violence. It was because this was a move that benefited them at the time!

      Furthermore, I could spin this as Obama trying to disarm Donetsk, so that later it would be easier to invade. I assume the arms were in Donetsk, since this is where Obama made his statement. Heck, this is not the first time that Ukraine had tensions between Eastern and Western parts. Maybe even then the Washington was concerned that Donetsk would rebel. You see, back in 2004 Yanukovich was most supported in Donetsk, then Luhansk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ukraine_Presidential_Dec_2004_V ote_(Yanukovych).png

      Now, Yushenko was most voted for in Lviv: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Ukraine_Presid ential_Dec_2004_Vote_%28Yushchenko%29.png

      No wonder you guys do not see eye to eye.

      Anyhow, this conspiracy theory that I just invented is weak, just as weak as your trying to spin this as “evidence” that Washington had nothing to do with Ukrainian “revolution” in 2013.

      I ask you to do better homework. Try to think about what a skeptic might say before posting a conjecture.

      • The desire for a better life, rule of law, property rights is not a CIA conspiracy.

        See my essay, “Putin’s Libertarians” for a detailed refuting of the Kremlin’s claims.

        If you compare the quality of life in any post Soviet country in Russia’s sphere of influence, to any post Soviet country that made it into the EU, the difference is dramatic, despite all the bad things you say about the NWO or whatnot.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Oh My God! With a reply like that you might as well be married to your pet cow! Nothing would surprise me.

          You are either unable of critical thinking or are twisting logical arguments into logical fallacies on purpose. Now I wonder if you are getting paid to do this.

          I took my time to reply to you, showing you an example of why you really need to do your homework. Your essay/post/whatever you call it is only as good as the arguments that it rests on. A logical person’s response would be something like: “Thanks for pointing out the weakness in my argument. I will try to do better next time. Or … ok, this argument is crap. Allow me to take my time and come up with a better one. I suppose if I cannot, then I will have to take this particular point back.”

          You claimed that something was evidence. I took my time to write out why this is not evidence at all. I have used the word conspiracy in jest. It was for the purpose of illustrating how I can take your tactics of spinning something, and then spin it the other way. It is an example of how dangerous spinning is and how great it would be if everybody took their time to think things through and look at them from the other side.

          This article is very weak. Thomas L. Knapp, the ex Leader of the Boston Tea Party just totally took a crap on your article. The spidey sense is tingling very hard, alerting me of the lack of logic and the use of emotions and/or logical fallacies instead.

          You write: “See my essay, “Putin’s Libertarians” for a detailed refuting of the Kremlin’s claims.”

          Linking to some other article or blog of yours does not constitute a proof. It is just a reference to another place that may be an amazing treasure chest of information and insight, or it may be a place where truth and logic go to die.

          Yes, I read your other essay. In my opinion it is just as bad as this one. It earns you less than a C and I am being generous – I have a mandate not to fail too many folks. It would take me a lot of time to go line-by-line and highlight in red all of the things that are wrong with it. This is true of this essay as well. I do not think I am interested in spending my time on that. I get a feeling that my gift of rationality is falling on deaf ears, that you are [or getting paid to be] married to your thesis and will fight to defend it at all costs, rather than take an opportunity to really learn something about this complex world that we live in.

          I have previously threatened you with posting a relevant video by Richard Feynman that ought to show you the light. I doubt that it will have the desired effect on your wetware, but I will try anyway:

          (On pseudo-science and how careful one has to be) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtMX_0jDsrw

          And I will now do what people who feel like they have not been heard tend to do: I will repeat myself.

          “Writing this took a lot of time. I am busy with my life, I may not reply to you at all. The chance of me replying will go up if you do your homework, filter out emotions and logical fallacies and otherwise do a good job at presenting an argument. I do not want my spidey sense in my ass to tingle so frequently. It makes me depressed about how irrational and illogical the world is.”

          • I can cut and paste parts of “Putin’s Libertarians”, but it’d be easier if you just followed the link: http://dailyanarchist.com/2014/04/10/putins-libertarians/.

            I offer tons of evidence, from my personal experience, from politifact.com, from many news sources. I demonstrate why many claims of the libertarian media are completely false.

            In the essay above, I put their persistent falsehoods in the context of the decades-old KGB tactic of influencing dissenting press in rival countries. As evidence, I site the testimony of former KGB operatives.

            I also point out the persistence lies being repeated by parts of the libertarian press. Obvious lies. (Which you seem determined to ignore.)

            You write diatribes about reason and logic without ever engaging in it.

            I think you’re either a Kremlin troll, one of the many, many professionals hired to support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, as has been widely discussed:

            http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/the-krem lins-troll-army/375932/
            http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-trol l-army-hit-america#1gyxuoo
            http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/06/04/hu nting-for-paid-russian-trolls-in-the-washington-post-comments-sec tion/
            http://toinformistoinfluence.com/2014/08/18/the-personal-attack-m ore-kremlin-troll-army-techniques/
            http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article3891720.ece
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/11/inside -putins-campaign-of-social-media-trolling-and-faked-ukrainian-cri mes/

            . . . . or your part of the lunatic fringe who is being fed talking points.

            The theories about Odesa, Nazis, MH17 are laughable falsehoods, but people need to take the time to look. Most people are busy. That’s why I wrote these essays.

            A common propaganda strategy is overloading. Creating a body of self-referential bullshit so vast that it overwhelms everything else. In short, creating bullshit faster than anybody can shovel. The Soviet Union did this very successfully. See the videos of former KGB propagandists I reference above. Russia is trying to do it again today.

            • DNo Gravatar says:

              John is the perfect example of why I cant stand being around other anarchists. He is also a prime example of why ancap will never bear actual fruit. There is more infighting between anarcho capitalists than with anything ive ever seen before. Maybe its just inherent because we tend to go against the grain to begin with. Or maybe because of the nature of the idea of absolute freedom.

              • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                Calling oneself an anacap is not the same as being an anacap. Usage of the word “we” can only create confusion. I can safely say that I have teachers of anarchistic thought who are an order of magnitude better than Roman at formulating an original thought and presenting an argument. My willingness to debate and look for the truth is labeled as in-fighting by you. If the bar for the quality of knowledge is that low at this site, then perhaps I should stop visiting it.

            • JohnNo Gravatar says:

              “A common propaganda strategy is overloading. Creating a body of self-referential bullshit so vast that it overwhelms everything else.”

              Funny, I was going to accuse you of exactly the same thing. Bullshit can and does exist on both sides of the argument. Any discussion can quickly turn into kindergarten-level feces throwing contest, unless all parties are mature and willing to abide by some rules, kind of like some courtroom proceedings go. The jury comes in supposedly clueless about the case and through the series of witness testimonies from both sides, cross examination, displaying evidence, allowing the other side to critique and possibly dismiss the evidence, to yell “objection” when one lawyer is asking a leading question or otherwise breaking the rules. Something like that is a smart and mature way of dealing with disagreement.

              Another name for bullshit shoveling is debate. Good debates are ones where certain rules of debate are followed. Both parties have to at least speak a common natural language (in this case English – check), and to agree on certain facts / axioms to be true. For example, it would help if we would agree on the following simple, and non-political statement. On October 23 2014 the following statement is true: a country named Ukraine shares a border with a country named Poland. If one of us had an issue with this statement, then we would have to try to dig deeper into definitions of time, country, border until we hopefully agree on the basics, and use logic from there.

              Other a ton of implicit basic facts, we would have to play by the same rules. I have not done debates professionally, but here are some guidelines for a debate in a different format: http://homepage.ntu.edu.tw/~karchung/debate1.htm

              I could not find a better example. This format does not really apply here, though #5 is a very useful point. Now, some debates are simply about winning. A politician gains much after winning a debate. Others are more noble, where both parties are debating for the sake of discovering the truth, and are willing to re-adjust their worldview. It should be pretty obvious, that logical fallacies, most of which are conveniently listed here: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ but also more fully here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

              At the minimum, debaters are to avoid logical fallacies as much as possible and to try to correct or throw out a portion of the argument that rests on one. Many of the logical fallacies can be shown with the help of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-order_logic, concepts like existential and universal qualifier, etc. I am not trying to push math for the sake of math. Humanity was kind of forced to research this topic because natural language is too fluid. It is easy to construct a benign-looking sentence that may appears logical at a first glance. Very often, when you take an erroneous statement in a natural language and translate it into a logical statement, the logical error is much easier to spot. Mathematical notation need not be used in a debate; one can also take an English statement, take it apart and analyze parts of it all using the same natural language, but formal logic is underlying rigorous basis for that.

              I am telling you upfront – these are the rules I would be playing by. Logic alone is not enough. Very often all-or-nothing thinking is just not realistic when applied to the real world. One can still benefit from first order logic because a single counter example is all it takes to disprove a sweeping generalization (a something that uses a universal qualifier). When logic is not available, probability and statistics can potentially help. Additionally, rules and tactics employed in a court room, where evidence is classified into different types, for example circumstantial and most weight is given to the most solid type of evidence.

              Now, you wrote several essays as you call them on the topic of Ukraine. You made a ton of statements in them, and you (at least try to) make statements flow, where one backs up the other. We could consider this a delayed debate, where you got to speak/write for a while and I am just catching up.

              Based on your responses so far I am pretty sure that we would not have a fruitful debate. I think we disagree on some axioms, but most importantly, the way we justify arguments, the way B follows or is supposed to follow from A. I believe that my set of standards is very different from yours. To illustrate my point, I can take more of my time and list notes & issues I have with just the first three or four opening paragraphs of your essay, if that will be helpful to you. I do not want to go through the entire piece; that would take awhile.

              I will not debate you outside of a certain format. I would not call that a debate but a mutual feces throwing session. I am only interested in the former. Again, I doubt that we will get anywhere and that is fine with me, but I am willing to try again.

              Also, I stepped up and answered your four or so “gotcha” questions. There are some tough and not so tough questions aimed at you by various users that you have yet to address.

              I write a lot because I cannot skip over important details. People demand short points and simple answers, but the real world is complex, as illustrated by Feynman’s response to how magnets work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM

              • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                Trying to be more specific: in this essay you take Scott Horton’s statements apart, show their weakness, you point out issues with the quality of his evidence and how he tries to imply blow a correct statement “there exists a politician in Ukrainian government who appears to be a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer” to “All Ukrainians are Nazis. Roman is Ukrainian, therefore Roman is a Nazi”.

                You want your readers to agree with you to that extent. I bet you would be frustrated if most people on this forum would say that Scott is the logical one, that showing a picture of a Ukrainian guy doing a Nazi salute constitutes a proof, that one logically follows from another. That would be like that courtroom scene from the movie Idiocracy: “You sound like a fag. Shut up! Sentence: guilty”.

                If so, then surely by symmetry you would welcome critique of your arguments, so that say you can improve their strength. You would respect that the best arguments at the moment ought to win, A position can be revisited later when new facts, evidence and arguments arise.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Ignoring the thought-suppressing cliches in your reply, let’s just focus on this: “””If you compare the quality of life in any post Soviet country in Russia’s sphere of influence, to any post Soviet country that made it into the EU, the difference is dramatic”””

          Buddy, the EU is falling apart. Greece wants out with the help of Russia, LOL. Iceland said no fn way. Italy is thinking about getting the hell out.

          Over 100K Italians sign petition for Eurozone exit referendum
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qcx2O_Q9w0

          Yeah, EU seems like a good idea when you suddenly get access to artificially cheap credit. It does suck big time when the time comes to pay the debt. EU membership has not cured corruption – not in Greece, not in Italy, not in Spain. You do not become civilized after you join EU. You become civilized first, and then Europe welcomes you. Not the case with Ukraine.

          In Italy there is now riot police for the exact opposite reason than one happened in Ukraine.

          Friedmans have yet to disappoint me.

          In 1999, when the Euro was launched, Milton Friedman, the leading right wing economist in America predicted: “The euro will not survive the first major European recession”

          The same year Friedman said: “Sooner or later, when the global economy hits a real bump, Europe’s internal contradictions will tear it apart.”

          Friedman had already in 1998 speculated with eerie foresight: “there will be asymmetric shocks hitting the different countries. That will mean that the only adjustment mechanism they have to meet that with is fiscal and unemployment: pressure on wages, pressure on prices. They have no way out…Suppose things go badly and Italy is in trouble, how does Italy get out of the Euro system?”

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      And here is evidence that the US is trying to fuck with Russia. Imagine Russia sending arms to Mexico or Cuba for the purposes of fucking with the US. There is also a talk of deploying nukes in Europe. Only a naive infant would deduce that NATO is acting in order to protect poor Ukraine and not because it needs an excuse for open confrontation.

      http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/u-s-congress-now-virtually-10 0-ukraines-war-russia-americans-least-67-opposed/?utm_source=feed burner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+RinfAlternativeNewsMe diaDailyBreakingNews+%28RINF+Alternative+News+Media%3A+Daily+Brea king+News%29

      Last night, December 11th, the U.S. Senate voted unanimouslyas the U.S. House had previously voted 98%: to join Ukraine’s war against Russia and against Ukraine’s own ethnic Russians in Ukraine’s southeastern districts, in order to eliminate those resistant Ukrainians and their families.
      The U.S. is now throwing down the gauntlet to Russia’s President, Vladimir Putin, and daring him to defend openly the ethnic Russians that the U.S.-installed Ukrainian Government is now trying to exterminate in the eastern districts, the places where the present Ukrainian Government is rejected by almost all of the residents.
      Both the House and Senate bills are for not just “arms/military supplies,” but specifically include “lethal weapons.” And they aren’t just to “send,” but to donate them, because the Ukrainian Government is bankrupt and can carry on its extermination campaign only by additional borrowings from the IMF, the U.S., and EU.

      http://rbth.com/international/2014/12/12/press_digest_us_senate_p asses_act_recognizing_ukraine_as_non-na_42217.html

      U.S. Congress on Dec. 11, which introduces changes to the law on foreign assistance of 1961 and recognizes Ukraine, as well as Georgia and Moldova, as Washington’s main allies outside NATO.
      Barack Obama now has the option of sending Kiev weaponry, primarily anti-tank and armor-piercing equipment. The U.S. government has allotted $350 million for this purpose. the bill also grants the U.S. executive branch the power to “procure and transport emergency fuel reserves” to satisfy Ukraine’s needs, including “reserve gas supplies from Europe.”
      U.S. president the right to introduce sanctions against Gazprom, Rosoboronexport and other Russian companies.

      Madness! “Putin’s libertarians” knew long ago that this was coming.

      • Help from the west, so far, has been 1) minimal and 2) welcome.

        Your comparison — “Imagine Russia sending arms to Mexico” — is obscurant of reality for several reasons:

        – The United States doesn’t have a history of starving to death millions of Mexicans because they refused to consider themselves part of the US.
        – Mexico isn’t begging Russia for help.
        – Mexico don’t have a reason to beg Russia for help.

        Look, it really is simple:

        To the west of Ukraine there is prosperous, law abiding Poland, and to the east, an impoverished, brutal, corrupt, propaganda-saturated Russia. The desire for a better life, not to mention survival is not a CIA conspiracy.

        Putin could have gone down in history as a great hero and a great leader if he fixed Russia’s culture of brutality and corruption. Instead, he exports it.

        You can tell all the lies you want about Ukraine’s political unrest being a western operation, but the difference in quality of life between Poland (as an example of western civilization) and Russia or Belarus (as an example of Russian civilization) does not lie.

  19. Hey John,

    You. The guy who has only posted my articles here on Daily Anarchist, nobody else’s. The guy who first appeared when I started writing about Russia. Whose only comments are attempts at undermining my criticism of Russia. I have some questions for you:

    Don’t you think gun ownership would be a great thing in Russia?
    As last summer’s Harvard study concluded, isn’t Russia’s sky-high murder rate proof that strict gun laws don’t protect a society?
    Don’t the you think secession of Siberia would make the people freer?
    Don’t think think Russia needs a free press?
    Weren’t the economic reforms in the nation of Georgia a great thing?

    🙂

    Please tell us your thoughts on these issues, random internet user who drops the line “I am in the US,” as a aside.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Roman,

      I will reply to you fully here. I will not dodge anything. I suspect that I struck a cord with you – good! Maybe we are finally getting somewhere.

      I know you watch the Syrian Girl and Corbett Report. Those are conspiracy theorists. You watch conspiracy theorists, therefore you are … a Kremlin troll? Following your “logic”.

      Anyhow … pardon my disappearance – I have life outside of this forum. Some questions that you posted are unanswered by me because of my other commitments. Quality arguments take time.

      It is true that I only posted to your articles on DA, in fact several of them. I do follow the conflict in Ukraine. There is a lot of lies on all sides and it is hard to sort out the truth. I use my “spidey sense” to help me figure things out. I pay attention when it tingles. You see in math I can “proove” that 1=2 like so: https://www.math.toronto.edu/mathnet/falseProofs/first1eq2.html
      It takes careful examination of the steps to figure out where the problem is. As soon as you found one non sequitur, which in Latin means “does not follow”, you either abandon or revise the proof. You do not “lawyer up” … in a rational world anyway. If you write software and someone in QA finds what seems to be a serious bug, you do not lawyer up. You fix it and re-test it … in a rational world anyway (well, there may be valid business reasons to make an exception).

      Similarly, in debates, when my spidey sense is going off and I spot a factual or a logical error, a logical fallacy, I want to resolve it. When the author of that flaw lawyers up, avoids it, goes emotional on me, etc. it is a huge red flag. Either they have not spent enough time doing their homework and now feel embarrassed or logic is foreign to them to begin with. Other explanations exist, none of them promise a constructive dialog really. In the world of engineering this would (and sometimes does but not too often) lead to fucked up projects that can and do kill people (a dam that breaks, a shuttle that explodes, etc.). I am all for progress, for science, for logic, for truth. The opposite of those has nothing to offer to me but discomfort.

      Anyhow, I learned of you by watching Corbett report … daily as of the last year or so. It was the mainstream coverage of the Boston Bombing and the story of Ibragim Todashev that prompted me to search for real sources of information. Many alt channels suck and I am still looking. Back to Corbett, he had an interview with you, a link to your site. You offered an attention-grabbing title and a promise for me to learn something and correct my views. BUT, my spidey sense has tingled multiple times. This is how our argumentative exchange began. I would love to learn something that is true and different and intriguing. You did not speak my language: logic. You almost did. At times it seemed like A implies B or C is indeed true, but I put my skeptic hat on and uncovered enough problems. This is how our argumentative exchange began and is still going on.

      Now onto your questions. Note, you did not “get” me. Those are pretty simple questions. What is the catch? Why the smiley face, as if you checkmated me?

      Q1. Don’t you think gun ownership would be a great thing in Russia?
      Yes it would be. It would be great everywhere. There is a good reason for Second Amendment. Real gun ownership in the US would be great too, though it is still better than in most other places. Switzerland is a good example. I am an anarchist. It is not just a label. Government is almost always a bunch of sociopaths with too much power. Iceland may be one exception, perhaps thanks to monoculture and their small size. People made a case to me for private ownership of nukes. Cody Wilson is my “hero”, though I do not like using that word. Every person is lame in their own ways. If you want to bring guns to Ukraine, then give the South East a chance. You promised to do so in a different thread, so don’t you forget it. I would be surprised if a Harvard study showed otherwise.

      Q2. Don’t the you think secession of Siberia would make the people freer?
      I do not know enough about history of Siberia. I think it has been historically populated by: Old Believers, Jews (most of them left), political dissidents, criminals, random minorities expelled from better lands and a bunch of others that I do not know about. Wow! I am making anti-Kremlin statements. Holy Shiat! Now, Siberia has a ton of natural resources. It is so fucking rich! At the same time, many people do not really want to live there. They prefer Moscow, Saint Pee and places that are warm. Abramovich did not stick around. Now, is there a separatist movement somewhere in Siberia. Too lazy to look it up; it certainly has not made American news, so it can’t be that hot. Will Putin allow it? Absolutely not! Russia would go bankrupt. That would be irrational. What measures he would use to make sure that Siberia does not become independent? Not sure. Pretty sure that shelling, cluster-bombs and air raids would not be his first method to try. An important thing to me is – you cannot use “the other kids do it” excuse to explain why the massacre in Donbass was right. If you are willing to play at Putin’s level, then do not try to claim that your shit don’t smell. Anarchism implies maximum freedom possible. If you are pro-oppression, then I do not think you belong at this site. I cannot tell you to leave; just expressing my opinion.

      As I see it, we are in a situation where NATO is willing to start WW3 in order to maintain the might of a petrodollar. In this circumstance I am more with Putin than with NATO, more with China than Wolfowitz’s orchestrated Hong Kong protests. The real world ain’t pretty. Nobody is offering Anarchy as a valid choice to me with a promise to leave me alone. It will slowly happen. For now I kind of have to choose the least evil.

      Q3. Don’t think think Russia needs a free press?
      Everybody would be better off with free press in their countries. Nobody has free press – not Russia, not Ukraine, not Europe. America with all its claims to democracy is ranked #46. In Russia journalists get killed outright. Happens here too – Garry Webb, Michael Hastings and a bunch of others. The media in the west is silenced a lot, just via a different mechanism: $$$$$$$$$$, influence, firing, smear campaigns, accusations of conspiracy theorist, tea-nagger, truther, birther, etc. Udo Ulfkotte did quite an expose recently. There is barely any free media in the US. Lol. for what it’s worth, I find that RT is pretty decent, at least when it comes to actual legitimate criticism of America.

      Everybody “needs” free press, Ukraine included. I could dig up examples of how Ukraine press is not free and not truthful, but it would take time, time I may not have.

      Q4. I do not know. Great would mean much better than the alternatives.
      I have heard that Georgia wants to privatize health care – that is the extent to which I am exposed to this. Well, good for them in that regard. That is not a proof of a statement that you would like to make – that any country that escapes the grip of Russia becomes much better off very quickly just because of that. Well, Italy, Portugal, Greece and Cyprus are all hurting. Caspian Report explained what happened to Greece – they got used to all that US pork during the cold war, and now they cannot restraint themselves after they have become irrelevant from the cold war point of view. These countries do not enjoy IMF’s grip one bit. They are looking to communist axis of evil China to help them out. I believe that Italy is considering leaving the Eurozone. You see, much of Europe has its military subsidized by the US presence. NATO is there too. Being part of a Eurozone is a factor. It is holding up for now, but it is drowning in debt. Things will not end well in Europe. You also have to consider the amount of direct monetary assistance that has been poured to small countries. Look, NATO puts its bases right on Russia’s border and in exchange the small countries that said yes to NATO get a lot of assistance. Small countries also have less bureaucracy and have easier time turning around. Having access to ocean and tourist opportunities are a huge factor. Russia does not have a lot of warm-water ocean. It is a huge mass of land, expensive to maintain. It is independent of NATO, which means it needs to maintain its own nukes and huge military. It costs money. Yes, Putin is not very pro-business, or pro-freedom, it is a big factor why Russia is not doing much better, but it is not the only factor.

      Saying “Look, Poland separated from Soviet sphere of influence and look at the results” is a gross simplification. There are a ton of factors. You have to consider them all, or at least the major ones.

      Here is just an example of home much pork Georgia is getting directly from the US:

      https://www.fbo.gov/?s=agency&mode=form&tab=offices&id=092fed1473 b306eb0b0f6be7ba456f80&tabmode=form&tabid=416ae703cdfef2ebe82354e 23a4a344c&subtab=notices&subtabmode=list

      US loves Georgia so much precisely because they want to dismantle Russian sphere of influence and are willing to pour a lot of money into these relatively small places.

      I do not have the time to count all of the pork in various forms and all of the factors. I just want to point out that you absolutely must be very careful not to fall into the “Post hoc ergo propter hoc” fallacy. You would not be the first Roman to do so (pan intended).

      So, I am sure that Georgia has some cool economic reforms. And some president or an ex-president in some Baltic state was a fan of Milton Friedman and implemented some of his advices. However, it is very impossible (no chance for repetition) to show scientifically that a statement “Country A is doing much better than 10 years ago because X, Y, Z” is valid. Lowering the standards, arguing from common sense, facts and logic and doing it correct is still very very hard. So when you say “Look, it is very simple. Poland blah blah blah”, my spidey sense starts to go off. If you keep on doing that, I will start throwing short videos of interview with Richard Feynman at you.

      So, my answers do not prove any thesis of yours. I know you want to make a case that Ukraine is better off than 1 year ago all because Yanukovich was expelled. I highly highly doubt it.

      Sarcastic smiley face is not appropriate. You are not winning an argument. You need to get better at logic.

      Alleging that I may be paid by Kremlin to troll is getting very fucking old. I plead the 6th, The burden of proof is on you.
      Either prove it, and I mean fucking prove it for real, or just drop it. No, I will not reveal my real identity for you.

      Writing this took a lot of time. I am busy with my life, I may not reply to you at all. The chance of me replying will go up if you do your homework, filter out emotions and logical fallacies and otherwise do a good job at presenting an argument. I do not want my spidey sense in my ass to tingle so frequently. It makes me depressed about how irrational and illogical the world is.

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      I will elaborate on this point more: “Weren’t the economic reforms in the nation of Georgia a great thing?”

      You earlier mentioned transparent glass walls installed in Georgian Police stations to symbolize transparency. That is just a symbol. If a symbol is not backed by anything (like the Maidan golden toilet that was meant to say “no more oligarchs in charge” ehm Poroshenko, Kolomoyskyi), then it just becomes a joke, just like all those Soviet Symbols claiming that the working class has been liberated.

      Correct me where I am wrong, but it looks like you continue to bring weak examples to state your case.

      I looked into this and it looks like things were not so rosy after the Rose Revolution of 2003. A little history that I dug up:

      So, the pro-Russian Eduard Shevarnadze resigned in 2003. Do not know a lot about him, but his daughter Sophie works for RT, so he must have been pro-Russian.

      He was then replaced with a Washington favorite, Columbia alum Mikheil Saakashvilli (for brevity I will refer to him as Saak). “On a platform of opposing corruption and improving pay and pensions he has promised to improve relations with the outside world.”

      So, 2004 is when he started, 2004 was his chance to be out with the old, in with the new. It was his chance to
      demolish the remnants of Soviet culture and corruption. So, what has happened?

      Only three years later this occurred: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Georgian_demonstrations

      People who elected Saak who ran on a promise to end corruption got so fed up with his corruption, that they took to the streets.

      “On 2 November 2007, tens of thousands of Georgians protested outside the parliament in the capital, Tbilisi, urging President Mikhail Saakashvili to step down. The crowd also called for early parliamentary elections. They accused Saakashvili of heading a corrupt, authoritarian government and wanted him to be ousted democratically.[28]”

      Related to your reference of glass walls and the transparency:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili#Prison_conditio ns

      “In September, 2012, during Saakashvili’s presidency, a video taken inside Tbilisi prison Gldani #8 showing prisoners being beaten and sodomized was released to the public.[40] Georgian Minister of Correction, Probation and Legal Assistance Khatuna Kalmakhelidze was forced to resign over the scandal.[41] Human rights organizations including the U.N. Office for the High Commissioner for Human Rights issued a statement expressing outrage over the video.[42][43]”

      Here is a link to the raw video. It is awful. Is this the anti-Soviet progress that you are trying to sell to libertarians around the world?
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_u4wNtSe14

      Saak is now being prosecuted in Georgia and is now hiding from all that in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili#Legal_prosecuti on

      I believe that you want to make the case that Georgia really turned around as soon as it divorced itself from its Soviet past. Well, Georgia ain’t a country I would want to emigrate to when the US collapses. I do not believe that things are so simple. Sociopaths will always be addicted to power and the most hard-core sociopaths tend to win. ALWAYS watch out for sociopaths trying to gain more power.

      Soviet symbols are just symbols. Anti-Soviet symbols are just symbols. Symbols are very cheap to create. Real progress is not.

      Dismissing all the symbols, slogans, anthems and other BS, let’s look at what real progress or the lack of is taking place in Ukraine.

      “Just the facts, ma’am”

      • I admire your tireless criticism of Russia’s detractors, but the data shows that trust in Georgia’s police has skyrocketed, as has their economic freedom rating. You’re engaging the old Soviet tactic of Whataboutism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism).

        And you’re pretty transparent. Everything that’s good for the Russian state (my earlier essays criticizing the US), you approve. Everything that’s bad for the Russian state, you play Whataboutism.

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          Roman,

          I know you hate me but you absolutely need feedback from someone like me to become a better writer. Free service.
          I have two words for you: https://www.coursera.org/course/thinkagain

          Actually, more than just two words. Earlier in the comment section you wrote: “You write diatribes about reason and logic without ever engaging in it.” Problems with this statement:
          1. “Without ever” is the same as “never”. Be careful using this dangerous words. Here are some tips on how to improve your writing: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/always-never-u sually-often-most-and-more
          2. You do not back up your claim. You state “I think you are a troll” followed by a bunch of links. Whoever asserts must prove or else he gets a reputation of a sophist (not one of an influential libertarian writer that he would like to project).

          Now let’s take your reply apart.
          1. “I admire your tireless criticism of Russia’s detractors” – oh buddy here you are trying to imply that I work for Kremlin based on a very limited set of data. I believe this is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy You do not know almost anything about me. There is no possible way that you can infer without a shadow of a doubt who I work for and what makes me tick. A non-sophist or an honest debater would omit this phrase.
          2. “, but the data shows that trust in Georgia’s police has skyrocketed, as has their economic freedom rating.”
          a. I have a slight problem with the word skyrocketed because it is a qualitative description designed to invoke imagery, not a quantitative one. It should be up to me to decide just how much of progress has been made. Just show me the data.
          b. And here is the data: http://www.heritage.org/index/visualize I added Georgia, Poland and Russia. So, looking at Georgia, you are correct that reforms in 2005 made a difference. The overall index went from 57.1 in 2005 to 69.3 in 2007. So, I was talking out of my ass earlier. Anyhow, the difference of 12.2 points out of 100 is what one should concentrate on, not the relative ranking for that is misleading. Anyhow, not too much changed since 2007. It did bump up recently, but that was after Saks. Want to know the reason? Corruption is still part of the Georgian culture. There is a reason why Moses allegedly spent 40 years with Jews in the desert – so that the slaves would die off and he would only end up with those born free. Saak sacked the corrupt old dudes and hired the young ones, full of energy and that helped, but he also lost a ton of experienced people in the process. Imagine most important bankers being under 30. Anyhow, there is no silver bullet. Also, Georgia has been doing better than Russia on that index since year 2000. It went from 44.1 in 1996 to 59.2 in 2001. Now that is an increase of 15.1 points in 5 years which beats any other period. That was before Saks reforms. The thing is, you cannot establish causation by looking at these graphs. You can have theories, you can hypothesize, but saying things like “Look, things are pretty simple, first A happened, then B happened, therefore ” – that is not science, that is cherry picking, an attempt to prove by example.
          4. “And you’re pretty transparent. Everything that’s good for the Russian state (my earlier essays criticizing the US), you approve. Everything that’s bad for the Russian state, you play Whataboutism.”
          a. Again, be careful with absolute statements and the use superlatives. In this case you have used everything twice. Three problems with it: 1. Not true even on this site. I have made statements critical of Russia here. 2. Not true in general and you have no way of knowing what sort of opinions I expressed elsewhere. 3. Even if every statement that I ever made related to Putin thus far supported Putin and criticized his enemies, one would have to consider just how much effort I spent engaged in that activity versus doing something else. The Kremlin troll money would have to be worth my time. You have no way of measuring my activity outside of this forum. 4. And just a technicality: it takes only one observation to destroy thousands of years of confirmation. You see, not all swans are white even though Europeans had no reason to believe otherwise since there were Europeans and until they visited Australia.
          3. “You’re engaging the old Soviet tactic of Whataboutism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism).”
          a. This is just a statement without any sort of proof. Example is not a proof. The link does not constitute a proof either, though it gives me a reference (and plenty of ammo to use against your argument).
          b. You are trying to discredit me by associating me with evil Soviet Union. The very specific type of a logical fallacy you are employing is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy#Guilt_by_associ ation_as_an_ad_hominem_fallacy
          c. Now let’s look at Whataboutism, or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
          A constructive example of a “You also” (just to simplify the name down to it’s core) would be: A doctor who herself smokes advises against smoking. Pointing out the inconsistency/hypocrisy would be applying “Tu quoque”. Now, note this sentence from that wiki page: “To clarify, although the person being attacked might indeed be acting inconsistently or hypocritically, such behavior does not invalidate the position presented.” I would say that Tu quoque is not a very strong logical fallacy because inconsistency or hypocrisy indeed exists. Now, the question is – am I applying this fallacy?
          d. I am making this a separate point because it is important. Am I playing Whataboutism? That strongly depends on my identity – on who I actually am. If I indeed am part of a Kremlin circle and I criticized someone who takes an anti-Kremlin position by pointing out a hypocrisy or inconsistency in their critique, then by definition of “Tu Quoque” I would be playing Whataboutism. Along the same lines, if I had murdered 1000 little children in cold blood and let them die a slow and painful death, then it may be reasonable to put me to death by firing squad. The small caveat is that if you accuse me of such deed, you need to prove beyond the shadow of the doubt that I indeed have murdered 1000 little children in cold blood and let them die a slow and painful death. You let the world know what your name is and spilled plenty of beans all over the internet about your views and self-association with various groups (Like Ukrainian, Libertarian, etc.). You know next to nothing about me. You cannot prove, and I mean freaking PROVE that I work for Kremlin. Therefore, your accusation of playing Whataboutism falls apart. It only takes one wrong part of an argument to invalidate the entire argument.

          I conclude that an attempt to accuse me of being a Kremlin troll is sophistry, a technique designed to evade a substantiated debate.

          Writing this took a lot of work. I am tired of doing your homework. Please start doing your own.

  20. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Also a WTF moment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfCcOaXV20&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8E Yxg8t1dQ&index=4

    US, Canada & Ukraine vote against Russia’s anti-Nazism resolution at UN

    The resolution was passed on Friday by the committee, which is tasked with tackling social and humanitarian issues and human rights abuses, by 115 votes against three, with 55 nations abstaining,

    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

      Another WTF moment – Orwellian ‘Ministry of Truth’? OSCE lashes out at Kiev’s new ministry amid journalists’ outcry
      http://rt.com/news/211227-ukraine-ministry-truth-journalists/

      Kiev’s decision to create a Ministry of Information is a clear threat to media freedom in Ukraine, said OSCE Representative on Freedom of the Media Dunja Mijatovic. The government’s plans have also sparked a wave of fury from journalists.

      “Ukraine’s initiative to create a Ministry of Information is a clear threat to media freedom, this is not the way to counter propaganda,” said Dunja Mijatovic on her Twitter account on Wednesday.

      Mijatovic also tweeted a link to an article called “Ukraine just created its own version of Orwell’s ‘Ministry of Truth’” citing the classic dystopian novel 1984.

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Another WTF – dude, where is your gold? It is not official until James Corbett blesses it. The bastard thief in chief Yanukovich has actually increased gold supplies from 25 to 40 tonnes and had no plans to reduce it … but now it’s gone!

        http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-18/ukraine-admits-its-gold- gone

        All these IMF loans come with strings attached. For example, gold. Also, some serious austerity (like reduction in pensions, education funds) is rumored to be on the horizon.

        I take no pleasure in writing this – I do not want to see Ukraine on its knees. But I would like for the people of Ukraine to start figuring out what has been done to them and if truth hurts, well it is what it is.

        Causal determinism, if true, would explain why you had no choice but do the exact things you did, write what you wrote and think what you thought, so feeling guilty is irrational. I think you are an idealist.

        • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

          An observation: “Ukraine” owns NO GOLD. “US” owns NO GOLD. “Ukraine” and “US” are mindless abstractions — they only exist in the brains of psychopathic dreamers. Borders are fictitious lines in the sand.

          People exist in land areas referred to as “Ukraine” and/or “US” — and some of them may have gold, including gold you might have thought of as “yours” — or (shudder the thought) “ours“.

          It ain’t yours unless you possess it — and can keep the bad guys from getting their grubby fingers on it. If you understand that, you might survive the coming cataclysm.

          But be assured — gold ain’t edible. So be prepared with consumables of long shelf-life if you can.

          This “former libertarian” bullshit is not going to get better, and it’s not going to be pretty. Sam

  21. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Fun things are happening here in US of A. The sheep are all rallied up against the police. Should be fun to watch this scenario unfold approximately like so:

    Other black(s) are killed by cops, media assists with race bating
    Riots get bigger and more numerous
    Some more white people are killed by some blacks and the other way around
    Police cannot contain the riots while the UN continues to criticize the US
    Under the auspice of helping the UN police/troops move in and disarm the American population
    Some other shit goes down
    Financial system is allowed to collapses
    The people are mad, but now the sheep got no guns
    Profit!

    This old and tried divide and conquer strategy will work just as smoothly in New York as it id in Kiev.

    Call me Nostradamus.

  22. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Just in case RT is not available in Ukraine. RT came up with the following title for this video: “Thousands of ultra-nationalists march in Kiev honoring Stepan Bandera”.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKMzwhHzRps&feature=youtu.be

    • Yes, Russians desperately need enemies. When you guys can’t find them, you’ll invent them.

      Russian Historian Andrey Zubov: Banderites are an example of the great lie of the Soviet system:
      http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/07/23/historian-andrey-zubov-band erites-are-an-example-of-the-great-lie-of-the-soviet-system/
      (I know this is an overtly pro Ukrainian source, but it’s just providing a translation.)

      Bandera as described in the Jewish periodical “Tablet Mag”:
      http://romaninukraine.com/stepan-bandera-as-ukrainians-have-been- arguing-in-vain-for-70-years/

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        Roman, thanks for taking the bait. I wanted to illustrate an example where seemingly coherent statements do not form an argument. As I expected, you responded with the same. Made for a pretty good emotional circle jerk. I will follow with a close analysis of what I wrote and what you wrote later.

        For now I just wanted to remind you that this class is starting tomorrow and it is free, so I highly recommend it. https://www.coursera.org/course/thinkagain

        • 🙂 I don’t quite understand the cause for your self-congratulations, but no matter. It is for other people to judge the evidence and arguments we’ve made.

          I think Russian Historian Andrey Zubov has it right about Stephan Bandera. Russia NEEDS to invent enemies. The Russian problem as always been legitimizing the state by creating a culture. They need to unite vast union of radically different cultures and ethnicities and need enemies to accomplish this.

          Everyone who resisted the Soviets, and later, the Russians has been accused of fascism and Nazism. In my previous essay “Putin’s Libertarians”, I detail this accusation as applied in Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine and Georgia. Russians find Nazis everywhere because they NEED to. And when they can’t find them, they create them.

          • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

            Roman:

            “…Russia NEEDS to invent enemies…”

            I submit, Roman, that every group of psychopaths who form themselves into that mindless abstraction we like to call “the state” have to invent enemies to stay in what many of us perceive to be “power”.

            There could be no such thing as “power” if there were no such thing as “enemy”.

            As a young, snot-nose kid, enslaved (“drafted”) into state butchery, I saw a lot of dead people. It was difficult at times to sort out “them” from “us” the destruction was so total. And the odor. I remember thinking, “…how did I ever allow myself to become convinced that these human beings were ‘enemies’?…” They were individuals — mostly young men like me, all of whom had wives, children, moms and/or dads somewhere, who will never see them again. The war mongers at that time hadn’t yet come up with the satisfaction of allowing young women be subject to gang-rape, as well as slaughter. All of us had become induced to believe it would be a good idea to engage in the insanity of murdering each other. None of us knew of any valid reasons — only slogans classic to all warfare everywhere from the beginning of history.

            Your statement is poignant if you apply it to all who deign to be “state”.

            Sam

            • Thank you, Sam, for that thoughtful comment. Two points for consideration:

              1) there is no moral equivalence between ALL states, between North and South Korea, between Russia and Poland. Some of them allow limited property rights, rule of law, prosperity, and some don’t. Let’s not be blind to this.

              2) States seem to have succeeded because they were better at war. (See Fukuyama’s Origins of Political Order). Two of the biggest examples are the rise of China’s Chin dynasty or Napoleons victory over the more voluntary coalition of German principalities.

              These are the big movements of history. There’s a reason that “proof” of libertarianism’s historic viability is relegated to places like Iceland, but that’ll be my next essay.

              • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

                My only argument is in favor of anarchy (<== pdf). Nothing else.

                That one group of psychopaths who claim "jurisdiction" over a section of real estate might have shown less overt evil than those making the same claim elsewhere is not part of my argument. All conquerors everywhere throughout all history who had aspirations of empire have "…allowed limited property 'rights'", etc etc etc. That's how all mindless abstractions called "nations" are formed, and "voluntary compliance" is what keeps them in motion.

                Abstain from beans, my dear friends. Sam

                • So all those people who risked their lives to flee from N Korea to S Korea, from E Germany to W Germany, from the Soviet Union to the West — they’re all a bunch of suckers?

                  • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

                    “If they can keep you asking the wrong questions they never have to worry about answers” (~Thomas Pynchon).

                    Is war a good thing if you end up on the “right” (“winning”) side? And only a bad thing if you wind up on the “wrong” (“losing”) side? Had you lived in the US in 1850 would you have been willing to provide shelter and assistance to runaway slaves? Were those individuals “suckers” who fled to the north US and Canada to avoid recapture? Was the so-called “civil war” necessary in the US in order to end slavery? If so, why was slavery ended in much of the rest of the world long previously — without wars?

                    War is the health of the state. States create victims. Support for state is support for conquerors.

                    Does that answer your question? Sam

                  • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                    WHAT IS YOUR ACTUAL ARGUMENT?

                    Premise, Inference, Conclusion.

                    As for the logical fallacies involved, I smell straw and herring.

                    • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

                      What is MY argument? I have no argument other than to urge my fellow anarchists to abstain from beans, which they are already doing if they are indeed anarchists.

                      I also urge those who might be teetering upon anarchy (read: Roman) to examine their efforts of supporting one or another side of what is clearly partisan in nature. All leads to warinsanity.

                      Victims abound. No “state” is “better” than another “state” — except mine. I am a sovereign state. And I even screw myself now and again when I’m not on the alert.

                      Sam

                    • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                      Samuel, notice the indentation. I was replying to Roman. This time I replied to myself because there is a limit. I actually do have a few things to debate with you, but not urgent. That NH thread is the best place for it. Talk to you there eventually.

              • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                I will explain the point of that exercise in logic later, but I will address your points here.

                1) “there is no moral equivalence between ALL states” what in the world does this mean? What is moral equivalence suppose to be?

                “Some of them allow limited property rights, rule of law, prosperity, and some don’t.” – AND THEN??? What logically follows?
                “Let’s not be blind to this.” – that is not how you conclude an argument! This is an empty phrase. I have no idea what you are arguing for and how you got there.

                Am I supposed to conclude that because North Dakota has better property rights than Fallujia, Iraq, then Caleb from Wimbledon, ND has more of a moral right to shoot at Mahmod than the other way around. You see, if you actually did the work of presenting a coherent argument that follows a structure: premise, inference, conclusion, then having a debate with you would be much easier, much more pleasant and much more fruitful. Here is another source for you: http://www.virtualschool.edu/mon/SocialConstruction/Logic.html

                2) “States seem to have succeeded because they were better at war.” The use of a guard clause “seem” prevents having any definitive conclusion. Secondly, all sorts of now useless strategies and approaches succeeded in the past. Men used to duel, to kill homos, to circumcise women … history is full of behaviors now considered despicable and counterproductive. Why mess around with Bitcoin if central banking was around for centuries?

                And about Iceland – you do know that history is not science, that political science is not science?

                History of Iceland will fit your “thesis”, so you will use it. If it did not, then you would not be using it.

                Asking why Napoleon beat X or Germans lost to Y is somewhat equivalent to asking which sword is better, or given a pair of swords, which will win? With history you cannot definitively test any of your theories. You cannot pause a battle and swap weapons or adjust terrain or weather or swap Napoleon with his rival.

                Science 101 – Things you should know: Correlation is not causation!
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObrWP5OvIh4

                If I have enough free time, I may decide to critique that Iceland blog post of yours as well. I suspect that it will be in vain, for a mathematically-ground engineer and a historian seem to use very different parts of their brain to produce their work.

              • JohnNo Gravatar says:

                A Roman, a physicist and a mathematician are on a train in Iceland. Roman looks out of the window, sees a black sheep standing in a field, and remarks, “How odd. All the sheep in Iceland are black!” “No, no, no!” says the physicist. “Only some Icelandic sheep are black.” The mathematician rolls his eyes at his companions’ muddled thinking and says, “In Iceland, there is at least one sheep, at least one side of which appears to be black from here some of the time.”

                Funny but important. If you are to create any thesis in the realm of social sciences, you need to be very careful about data, your methods, your assumptions. Iceland is exactly one data point.

                When Magic Johnson claims to be cured of aids, a Roman would come to a conclusion that since “Magic Johnson” is an anagram for “Him Jog, No Cans”, then he is cured of HIV because he runs a lot and does not eat any canned food.

                Let’s just say that people actually studying medicine would take a very different approach. They would start with “we have know idea why and not even sure if this is for real or a hoax” and then follow up with a battery of tests, trying to go bottom up from observable facts into a potential theory, all subject to scientific scrutiny of course. Following the scientific method can be excruciatingly difficult but it is the only way so far discovered to discover more truths (or rather theories, for a new discovery can invalidate previous knowledge).

  23. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Here is evidence of a false flag attack in Paris. Every MSM channel claimed that the guy was shot in the head from an AK47.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEvlKKm6og

    More of that to come in America.

    P.S. This is not exactly a complete argument, more of a building block for a later thesis.

  24. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Not exactly an argument, just more shitty news for Ukraine. Monsanto just moved in. Westernization …

    http://naturalsociety.com/theyre-not-telling-monsantos-role-ukrai ne/#ixzz3Oa4Ss8gT

  25. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    More bad news – Ukraine owes more than 3B USD to China and China wants its money back now. Collapse is kinda nie (unless WW3 covers it up).
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/01/ukraine-stiffs-china-billi ons-owes.html

    • ^^ It is very, very, very important for Russians to say “we are strong, you are weak.”

      Their fundamental view of the world is that everyone (and everything) is trying to cheat them, therefore appearing strong is a priority.

      So you can understand why narratives about US gov’t corruption or dollar weakness are so interesting to them.

      See my blog post: What Westerners Don’t Understand About Russia

      http://romaninukraine.com/what-westerners-dont-understand-about-r ussia/

      • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

        For those of who remain “half-assed anarchists” (leaning toward partisan politics), Daily Bell posted a decent alternative essay
        this morning.

        Just because I’m anarchist, totally indifferent to claims of “jurisdiction” and/or “legitimacy” by psychopaths in places they like to call “Russia”, “Ukraine”, “US”, “China” et al; I’m fully aware that there are lots of warriors in lots of places who have lots of terribly deadly weaponry, and that they are going to eventually do grievous harm to many, many people who are merely trying to stay alive and to protect those they love. All political systems are about power, privilege and plunder.

        The enormity of the truth is incredible

        Sam

      • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

        After reading your blog post I couldn’t help but think of my old friend Robert J. Ringer (“Looking Out For #1, 1977). Now I suppose folks from, say Texas, may mostly have certain tendencies that can be recognized as “Texan”. Some do, some don’t. A large number must, or there wouldn’t be a category called “Texan”. Same with “Russian”.

        Ringer presented what he called The Three Type Theory. I think it fits a cross sections of Texans, New Yorkers, as well as “Russians”. And probably Lithuanians, as well as everybody reading this comment. I don’t know how to “cite” or “indent” on this html, so I’ll just tell you that the following is Ringer’s quote:

        “Three Type Theory”

        There are three types of people in the world – a Type Number one, a Type Number Two, and a Type Number Three.

        A Type Number One understands and openly acknowledges that he always acts in his own self-interest.

        A Type Number Two understands that he always acts in his own self-interest, but tries to make you believe otherwise.

        A Type Number Three either doesn’t understand or doesn’t want to understand that he always acts in his own self-interest. He therefore feels very sincere when he tries to make you believe he’s thinking of you first.

        ~Robert J. Ringer
        Looking Out For #1 1977

        End of quote. Any time someone tries to categorize everybody living on a certain continent or in a certain area, I think of Robert. Sam

        • JohnNo Gravatar says:

          There are three stages in a man’s life – when he believes in Santa Clause, when he no longer believes in Santa Clause, and when he is Santa Clause.

  26. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Pentagon sent special ops soldiers to 133 countries in 2014. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNlLBpLmLWc

  27. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Alternatively, the financial collapse to be blamed on a handful of Russian spies.
    HAHAHA

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/high-frequency-tradin g-russian-spies

  28. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Online army: Ukraine seeks to recruit bloggers for ‘truth-telling’ crusade. Beats 12 microBTC per page view.

    http://rt.com/news/226975-ukraine-internet-web-army/

    Kiev authorities plan to create a coordination center for Ukrainian bloggers to present a united front in social media, adding that popular bloggers will become Ukraine’s “truth-telling” online army.
    The internet warriors will distribute reliable information about the situation in the warzone in the east of the country and will refute “false news” coming from the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” in Donetsk and Lugansk regions, the minister said.
    The proposal has prompted an international outcry from journalists alarmed by the move. Kiev’s decision to create a Ministry of Information is a clear threat to media freedom in Ukraine, said OSCE Representative on Freedom of the Media Dunja Mijatovic

  29. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Ukraine Is “Pressing” Obama For $3 Billion In Financial Aid. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-29/ukraine-pressing-obama-3 -billion-financial-aid

    As a libertarian/anarchist, why should I pay for this ordeal?

    • Sam SpadeNo Gravatar says:

      John:

      “…As a libertarian/anarchist, why should I pay for this ordeal?…”

      Don’t be a cheapskate, John — go for an extra couple billion as a “tip” (no — “tips” are “taxable” according to psychopaths claiming “jurisdiction” as heading up a group of lunatics called “the-united-states” — make that a couple billion “gift”).

      Actually, as a libertarian/anarchist you must realize that “Ukraine” can’t “press” anybody for anything. Apparently there are some individuals (all crazy bastards) in a place they want you to think of as “Ukraine” — and who want you to believe they have “authority” or “jurisdiction” — who are attempting to extort a cut of huge stolen resources from lots of folks.

      Nations and countries are fictitious lines in the sand. Don’t let morons who report “news” get your dander up over such trivia.

      3 billion? Chicken feed. Sam

      • JohnNo Gravatar says:

        You are right, $3B is chicken feed; it is only $10 USD per every breathing USAtian that was counted by census.

  30. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    You can check out at any time but you can never leave. Freedom my ass!

    Poroshenko orders regulation of foreign travel for men of military age amid mobilization
    http://itar-tass.com/en/world/774520

    Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has ordered the cabinet of ministers to regulate foreign travel rules for men of conscription age, the presidential press service said on Friday.

  31. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    In addition to cracking down on Ukrainian media, Kiev now wants to ban Russian journalists.

    Ukraine to tighten measures to ban entry to Russian journalists http://itar-tass.com/en/world/774945

    A draft resolution was submitted to the Ukrainian parliament last week on suspending the accreditation of journalists working for Russian media outlets at Ukraine’s bodies of state power.

  32. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Here is a latest report by RT.

    Hundreds trying to break into Ukraine president’s office in Kiev
    http://rt.com/news/228999-kiev-protesters-storm-president/

    —–
    Looks like these guys are ex-fighters who are fed up with Ukrainian army sucking (thanks to corrupt and incompetent commanders according to them, I suppose). A few thousand men are about to be surrounded near Debaltsevo. Poroshenko’s chocolate factories are still operational in Russia. Looks like Putin is allowing Porky to keep them in exchange for failing at war, but keeping the US just happy enough with the progress. The games that these sociopaths play …
    —–

    Several hundred protesters have reportedly tried to break into the Ukrainian president’s administrational office in the country’s capital Kiev, but were repelled by security forces guarding the building. The stand-off grew into clashes in the street.

    The demonstrators, who demand access to the administration’s conference room in order to make a TV statement, are still clashing with the National Guard, TASS reports.

    Earlier, protesters managed to break through the first cordon of security forces, but were prevented from entering the building.

    The rioters’ demands include the introduction of martial law in Ukraine over the fighting with the rebels in the southeast of the country. They also insisted on the resignation of the heads of all Ukrainian security agencies – from defense minister to prosecutor general – due to their incompetence.

  33. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Japan is getting ready for a war thanks to a fake hostage beheading video. This is just one of the steps.
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/02/03/national/politics-dip lomacy/constitutional-change-necessary-protect-japanese-citizens- abe/

    * After being unable to save two hostages held by Middle Eastern extremists, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said constitutional change will be needed to protect the lives and assets of Japanese citizens.
    * Abe has said at times that with the current interpretation of Article 9, which forbids both the use of force to settle international disputes and the maintenance of regular armed forces, it is difficult to protect Japanese citizens in a changing security environment.
    * “The Liberal Democratic Party has already presented a draft amendment to Article 9, and amending it is to carry out our duty of protecting the lives and assets of Japanese citizens,”
    * Article 9 should be amended to enable the Self-Defense Forces to rescue Japanese being held abroad.

  34. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    There is a coup underway in Venezuela. Read more at: http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/venezuela-a-coup-in-real-time/

    Now, https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR is all over it, trying to portray Maduro as yet another despot akin to Yanukovich. https://twitter.com/search?q=%40EuromaidanPR%20venezuella&src=typ d

    Not that the dude is great. but the real reason for the coup has nothing to do with the human rights abuses. I mean come on! Obama bombed 7 countries in 6 years and nobody gave a flying fukc. Something on the order of a million Iraqis (in part thanks to Roman) killed.

    —–

    1. There is a coup underway in Venezuela. The pieces are all falling into place like a bad CIA movie.
    2. US places Sanctions on Venezuela
    3. This week, as the New York Times showcased an editorial degrading and ridiculing Venezuelan President Maduro, labeling him “erratic and despotic”
    4. Two days later, the New York Times ran a front-page piece shaming the Venezuelan economy and oil industry, and predicting its downfall
    5. Now we had the story that Venezuela has nuclear weapons and a plan to bomb New York City (“U.S. Scientist Jailed for Trying to Help Venezuela Build Bombs”, Jan. 30, 2015, NPR).
    6. News propaganda headlines lead readers to believe Venezuela was directly involved in a terrorist plan against the U.S., the actual text of the article makes clear that no Venezuelans were involved at all. The whole charade was an entrapment set up by the FBI,
    7. That same day, State Department spokeswoman Jan Psaki condemned the alleged “criminalization of political dissent” in Venezuela
    8. This February marks one year since anti-government protests violently tried to force President Maduro’s resignation, and opposition groups are currently trying to gain momentum to reignite demonstrations..
    9. As shortages continue and access to dollars becomes increasingly difficult, chaos and panic ensue. This social discontent is capitalized on by U.S. agencies and anti-government forces in Venezuela pushing for regime change. A very similar strategy was used in Chile to overthrow socialist President Salvador Allende. First the economy was destroyed, then mass discontent grew and the military moved to oust Allende, backed by Washington at every stage.

  35. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Pull the rings from out your noses
    Tear the saddle from your back!
    Bit and spur must rust forever,
    Cruel whips no more shall crack.

    Poroshenko will impose martial law if cease-fire fails
    https://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/poroshenko-will-i mpose-martial-law-if-cease-fire-fails-380663.html

    Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said martial law will be introduced throughout Ukraine if the cease-fire fails to start at midnight tonight, as agreed in Minsk, Belarus, on Feb. 12.

    “Even before Minsk… I warned that we will have to, if there is no peace, take a very difficult but necessary decision to introduce martial law,” Poroshenko said today. “I stress once again that in this case the martial law will be introduced not just in Donetsk and Luhansk, but in the whole country.”

    Introduction of martial law means that Ukraine’s army gets to control the streets and impose curfews, ban parties and other organizations, as well as mass gatherings, conduct searches and introduce censorship. It’s also allowed to claim property of businesses and private individual if needed.

  36. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Busted: Kiev MPs try to fool US senator with ‘proof’ of Russian tanks in Ukraine (PHOTOS)
    http://rt.com/news/232067-fake-photos-russian-army/

    MPs in Kiev hoodwinked a US senator, presenting his office with photos of columns of Russian military hardware allegedly roaming Ukrainian territory. The photos turned out to have been taken during the conflict in South Ossetia back in 2008.

    The photos were “presented to the Armed Services Committee from a delegation from Ukraine in December,” told The Washington Free Beacon Senator Jim Inhofe’s communications director Donelle Harder.

    The Americans planned to publish the photos with credits to the Ukrainian MPs, and “they were fine with that,” the spokesperson said.

    Yet, after thorough checking, images of the Russian convoys turned to be taken years ago, in 2008 during Georgia – South Ossetia war.

    —–

    I wonder what other “evidence” Kiev may have fabricated.

  37. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Debaltsevo is Illovaisk 2.0
    During Minsk peace talks Putin insisted that around 5000 Ukrainian service men were encircled near Debaltsevo while Poroshenko refused to admit it. As the result there was not a word about Debaltsevo in the Minsk agreement. As the result, yet another 5000 Ukrainian soldiers are being fed to the rebel’s cannons.

    =====

    Panic in Debaltsevo; National Guard flees; Poroshenko accused of treason
    http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/02/normal-0-false-false-false-e n-us-x-none.html

    “””Rada Deputy Taras Pastukh: The National Guard ran fromDebaltsevo in panic, abandoning the VSU to their fate.”””

    “””This statement was just issued by the Rada Deputy (Samopomoga faction) Taras Pastukh, who is a participant in the fighting.

    “Greetings from the still-Ukrainian Debaltsevo. We just repelled an attack on our base camp. Earlier it could barely be reached by artillery, but today enemy infantry had arrived. The National Guard had left the city, thus leaving us open to attack. All blocking positions report constant shelling and tank attacks. We never received any reinforcement. It went to the CTO zone, but never went where it was needed.”

    “We are being abandoned here, while at the same time others are simply running away,” he added.

    He also asked the country’s leaders for support.”””

    “””In his words, “this is genuine betrayal of the country by the entire military command, including our so-called ‘president’.””””

    =====

    http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/02/zakharchenko-ukraine-has-bet rayed-its.html

    “””Please note that there is not a single word about Debaltsevo in the Minsk agreements. This means that Ukraine simply betrayed the 5 thousand people in the Debaltsevo cauldron. I can say the following, we will stop fire across the entire territory of Donetsk People’s Republic, except for internal areas. Internal areas means Debaltsevo.

    Any attempt of UAF to break out of this cauldron or deblock it will be considered a violation of the Minsk agreements, and naturally these attempts will be foiled, and the enemy will be destroyed.”””

  38. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    If Kiev did indeed perpetrate war atrocities, then how would the regular people know without the voice of opposition?

    Moscow slams Kiev for ‘information war’ over 100+ Russian media ban list
    http://rt.com/news/234423-russia-ukraine-information-war/

    Kiev’s stripping more than 100 Russian media outlets of accreditation at Ukraine’s bodies of state power is “openly discriminatory.” It calls into question their interest in a peace settlement, said Russia’s Foreign Ministry and other top official.

    On Saturday, the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) issued recommendations to strip more than 100 Russian media outlets of accreditation. The list includes TASS, Rossiya Segodnya and all Russian TV channels except Dozhd, according to the service’s spokesperson Yelena Gitlyanskaya. The outlets will be without accreditation until the end of the Ukrainian conflict.

  39. JohnNo Gravatar says:

    Roman, I am quoting you.

    “””INTRODUCTION

    One of the biggest WTF moments of the Ukraine crisis was this demonstration by New York City’s lesbian gay trans bisexual & queer community in support of the “separatists” (who are mostly Russian-hired mercenaries, led by Russian GRU agents). The “separatists” are violently anti-gay.”””

    And now let’s look at Ukraine – the gay pride march barely lasted half an hour and violence ensued.

    Ukraine radicals clash with police, LGBT activists at gay pride rally in Kiev
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_1IIjOPaic

    “Right now, during the war with Moscow,” the Right Sector leader Dmytro Yarosh wrote on his Facebook page on the eve of the march, we “will be forced to be distracted from other things in order to stop those who hate the family, break morals, and destroy morality and the traditional concepts of humankind.” He went on to say that the West is exercising too much influence over Ukraine “in order to force them to introduce the ideology of L.G.B.T. people.”

    Yarosh is not a nobody in Ukrainian politics, he is a member of parliament, the leader of influential Right Sector and

    In early April 2015, Ukraine’s defence ministry announced that ultranationalist MP Dmytro Yarosh was to become an aide to military chief Viktor Muzhenko and that his Right Sector fighting group would be integrated into the Armed Forces of Ukraine.[18]

    None of this was reported in the Ukrainian mainstream media. None of this was re-tweeted by Roman.

    I am sure that you have an explanation ready – something along these lines:

    “I do think Ukraine has been minimizing the anti-gay sentiments of Right Sector in a Pollyanna sort of way, but the real story is … Putin. blah blah blah.”

    Lol, “Pollyanna sort of way” – I will try using this excuse – “Sorry officer, I did forcibly have sex with that woman, but out of best intentions in a Pollyanna sort of way. I mean I kissed her like 12 times before dry-ramming her. Can I go home now?”

    For the unsuspected reader – I am paraphrasing Roman’s own words from his “The latest Libertarian shillery for Russia” article.